Moreover, the idea that everyone should feel the bite, to me, is a bit misdirected/misleading. To me, taxes are all about revenue for the government so that the government can perform certain tasks that otherwise wouldn’t be performed by private entities (or at least not as well). So the question should not be “how can we make everyone feel the bite of taxes?” but instead, should be “how can we make the government as much money as is needed, as fairly as possible?”

So let’s take millionaire Bob. Millionaire Bob makes $1,000,000 per year. Now, let’s assume that Bob is in a position in which, if he works a few more hours, he makes more money each year. Suppose he is taxed on a flat rate system. Bob now has an incentive to work even harder each year, because he receives the same amount per hour for his efforts. This is good for him, and it’s good for the government, because each hour he works harder, the government gets more money.

Now, switch to a progressive tax system without a cap. For each hour that Bob works extra, Bob receives less for his efforts. So at some point, the tax burden becomes so much that Bob throws up his hands and says, “Screw it, I’m going on vacation and I’m done working this year.” This hurts not only Bob, because he doesn’t get the money he could have earned by working, but it hurts all of us, because the government doesn’t get their cut of what Bob would have otherwise earned and distributed via taxes. This is exactly the opposite of what we want–we want people like Bob to work harder to give more revenue to the government. Let’s encourage him to keep working by not imposing a road block that ultimately causes Bob to throw up his hands and quit (or even worse, tax shelter his income in overseas accounts).

I do not want a Socialist government. People in this country have to learn to fend for themselves. We are losing our backbone.

Foosfan

Lets look at facts.
First fact-There isn’t a money fairy fluttering around, waiving a magic wand and money suddenly appears.

First comes the work, then comes the money.

The average person works 40 hours a week.

I work 50-60 usually, sometimes 72-84, and a few times more. I’ve worked 5 days at 16 hour days. I’ve worked 24+ hour days.

If I got paid hourly what the average person does, I’d make more because I work more. Thats HOW rich get richer. Or in my case, the average get rich.

Since the work comes first, then the money.
I started working at 12 years old, in the 6th grade, with a paper route. I got up at 5:30 in the morning, 6 days a week to deliver papers. I did this for 4 years.

When I was a sophmore in HS I got a job at a local restaurant, as a busboy. Working that Friday and Saturday nights. I worked that job 2 years.

Then I got another busboy job my senior year of HS, and worked that 3-4 nights a week.

After HS I got a job working in a hotdog joint, while going to a community college 35 miles away. I worked that usually 30-40 hours a week WHILE going to school full time. During the summer or breaks I’d load up on hours, usually 50-60 hours a week. The summer after my freshmen year, I got a job at a log home building company. Between hotdogs and log homes, I was working 70 hours a week.

My parents were divorced after my freshmen year of HS and my dad wasn’t involved in my life. My dad didn’t pay child support, and my mom did the best she could working in factories. Because of that, there was NO money to send me to school, so I PAID my own way to school. That includes tuition, the commute back and forth and books.

My first job outside of restaurants, was working in a factory. I was still going to school, but finishing up for the most part. I still had 3 months left. I worked 6 days a week 10 hour days and went to school 3 nights a week.

My education, though nothing great, allowed me to enter a factory with a skill. A skill that allowed me to make a little more than the average person entering a factory.

Over the next 5 years I worked in a handful of factories and developed my skills further. I also continued to take courses at the community college.
My last factory job, I was 1 or 54 welders. 1 of 3 with Heliarc experience, and the only one who could weld aluminum and stainless.
I also had machine shop experience. Which allowed the company to transfer me into the machine shop when that department got backed up.
Everything was time studied, so every job had a tame frame to be done. In the welding department I was constantly either #1 or #2 for rate. I ALWAYS had the lowest rework.
Because of my knowledge and skills, I had the position of Master Welder. 5 Master Welders, and I was the youngest by 10 years.

I left factory work and got into construction. The pay is MUCH BETTER. I have been doing that for 23 years now.

About 6 years ago, things were slow, where I went back to find a welding job, just to make ends meet. I was hired because of my resume and my interview. NO welding test to see if I could back up my claims.

After 1 week of working there, the owner wanted to buy my contract out from the temp agency. It would have been an instant $2 an hour raise. I turned it down because I knew work in my construction field was going to break soon, which it did.

My point is, I was REAL good at my skills when I left factory work for construction. Over the years my skills have increased IMMENSELY. I am well beyond where I was 23 years ago. And I get paid for it.

Also, my job requirements today are vastly beyond anything I did in factories. The conditions I might have to work in might be 200 ft up in the air, with winds blowing 30-40 mph and temperatures just above zero (without the wind chill). Or I might be working in a steel mill, in the summer, with temps around 120 and having to wear fire retardent clothes over work clothes.

For all that they pay me a decent hourly wage.

When one job gets done I might get transfered to another job, while others get laid off, or I’ll get a call from a former employer or I’ll call a former employer, and get a job because of not just my skills, but my reputation as a worker.

Its all those things that add up to how much you make.

Because of what I did years ago, it trained me to work hard. I learned numerous skills. I get up real early and work real late. I work off hours. While others complain “how hard” their average job is, I just do my MUCH HARDER than average job, without complaining. When others complain about getting up at 5:30 or 6 am, I get up at 3:30 to 4:30, because thats what has to be done to get the job done.

I don’t have time for whinning and complaining or those who do. The VAST MAJORITY of people in this country or where they are at because of the decisions and choices they have made (or lack there of). Lifes hard. Deal with it.

Complaining ain’t dealing with it.

Now here’s some simple math. If you and I both make $10 an hour, but you work the average 40 hours and I work 60 hours. You’ll gross $400 in a week and I’ll gross $700.

If I go and develop skills that will pay me an extra $5 an hour, while you’re still making $400, I’m making $1050.

I then take those advanced skills to a harder and more knowledge andskill required job, where they pay me even more $$$.

While you’re complaining how your job sucks, I’m dealing with mine and getting it done. Because of my work ethic, I’m put in a position over other workers, making me more money.

Outside of work, you take your paycheck and live to the very limits of what it affords. I take mine and live below your lifestyle while I make the same as you. As my income increases, my lifestyle barely changes. (In fact I live in the same house I lived in 25 years ago. I buy and drive used cars)

I’ve educated myself on finance and investing. Making MANY mistakes along the way.
I take a portion of the income I earn and invest it. Planning for the future.

And that is how the rich get richer and the poor poorer. While the poor COMPLAIN about life, there are those of us who don’t want to stay poor, and do something about it. The rich live below their means and then invest the rest. The returns on their investments they reinvest and get more returns. Thats how you become rich and how you become richer.

You advocate a progressive tax system, because though you and I might have at one time made the same hourly, I work more hours, thereby getting more pay. And that pisses you off. If you make $400 and the government taxes you 20%, thats $80. If the government taxes me the same 20% but I make $2000 dollars, thats $400. Same percentage, different amounts.

I have often found that those who think that all work is equal are often the ones who do little on the job. Or little out of the job to improve themselves.

I am now approaching 50, and still I take classes or read to learn new things or improve what I do.

Lifes hard. That don’t bother me, I’ve always worked hard. I know its hard and accept it.
But…
Like John Wayne said: Lifes hard. Its even harder if you’re stupid.

No need making life any harder.

For the rich to complain about a system that is totally skewed to their benefit, is ridiculous.

Look at the facts, not the propaganda.

Joe’s parents are struggling. His dad is a construction worker who was disabled in a work accident, and now lives off of disability payments (not much income there). Mom works also, but in a dead-end clerical job that doesn’t pay much, but it has health benefits the family needs, so she stays. Joe also has a learning disability. The school in his neighborhood has a poverty rate of 62% (62% of students qualify for free or reduced-fee lunch), and is overcrowded because the governor doesn’t think small class sizes are important. This community is especially hard hit, because the local factories (which had family-supporting jobs) closed and re-opened in China and Mexico. Sound familiar? The people who lost those factory jobs would like to work, but their skills aren’t easily transferrable to the other jobs that are available. (This is “structural unemployment” where the situation changes, and the available skills don’t fit the available jobs.)

Joe’s teacher is in her first year, and overloaded. There is no teacher mentoring program, and she has to be teacher, social worker, therapist, and more to meet the needs of her students.
She doesn’t have the experience, yet, to recognize that Joe has a learning disability, so he doesn’t get the help he needs. In spite of his hard work, his grades and test scores are below average. No college scholarships for Joe, so he goes to work out of high school. His future is not bright.

He did not have the same chances as John did. Don’t call him lazy because when he’s an adult, he earns less than John. Shame on you!

Socialism might be a solution to a brighter future. http://www.financialsamurai.com/2011/08/01/socialism-as-a-means-to-a-brighter-future/

1. I know the federal government considers income above $25,000 for a family of 4, or $10,000 for an individual to be adequate, but really…. have you thought about that, or every tried to live on that amount? My annual expenses as a single person include about $3,000 for food (and I’m not talking fancy food here), $2,000 for gas, $0 for car payments (I have an old beater), $3,000 approx for utilities (electricity, water, sewer, trash pick-up, and phone), $6,000 for rent. So far, no money for clothing, health care, dental care, eyeglasses or contact lenses, vacation, emergency savings, or retirement savings. And I’ve already spent $13,000 ($3,000 over income of $10,000). If you added in car payments for a modest car, it could easily be $16,000 or more, and that’s living a poverty lifestyle with no chance to save or get ahead.

Triple the poverty income, and tax those who earn above $75,000 for a family of 4, or $30,000 for an individual, and you would make more sense.

2. There are lots of things on my tax bill that I don’t actually use either, but they matter. For example, assessments for schools, including community college. It benefits all of us, indirectly, if we have an educated and employable citizenry. We need to educate our children, that is a collective responsibility. And community college is a great start for those looking to go on to a 4-year program (without accumulating tens of thousands in debt), and also for those looking for specific job training.

3. Yes, captitalism has its good points (and its bad points). The nation whose people consistently rank as the happiest on earth is not a capitalist country though. It’s socialist. Denmark has a higher standard of living for the average citizen than we do, and much more of a safety net. Don’t knock it if you don’t know what you are talking about.