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> <channel><title>Comments on: Someone Has To Give Birth!  Why Women Shouldn&#8217;t Be Penalized For Being A Mom.</title> <atom:link href="http://www.financialsamurai.com/2009/12/11/someone-has-to-give-birth-women-shouldnt-be-penalized-for-being-moms/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /><link>http://www.financialsamurai.com/2009/12/11/someone-has-to-give-birth-women-shouldnt-be-penalized-for-being-moms/</link> <description>Slicing Through Money&#039;s Mysteries</description> <lastBuildDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 19:52:22 +0000</lastBuildDate> <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency> <generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0</generator> <item><title>By: financialwizardess</title><link>http://www.financialsamurai.com/2009/12/11/someone-has-to-give-birth-women-shouldnt-be-penalized-for-being-moms/comment-page-1/#comment-7438</link> <dc:creator>financialwizardess</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 21 Apr 2010 17:26:36 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.financialsamurai.com/?p=720#comment-7438</guid> <description>I&#039;m not at all surprised that a female manager would be less understanding than a male.  1)  she&#039;s bitter about her own situation and 2)  she doesn&#039;t worry about being called sexist.
I do wonder where you come up with 3 months leave.  I just gave birth 3 months ago and have been back at work for 8 weeks now.  :)  We get 6 weeks, as do most short term disability firms.  The rest of the 3 months you can take UNPAID per FMLA.  At least, that&#039;s how it works here.  So it&#039;s not really like you&#039;re getting 3 months of your salary.  I got 6 weeks at 80% of salary paid thru my insurance.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not at all surprised that a female manager would be less understanding than a male.  1)  she&#8217;s bitter about her own situation and 2)  she doesn&#8217;t worry about being called sexist.</p><p>I do wonder where you come up with 3 months leave.  I just gave birth 3 months ago and have been back at work for 8 weeks now.  :)  We get 6 weeks, as do most short term disability firms.  The rest of the 3 months you can take UNPAID per FMLA.  At least, that&#8217;s how it works here.  So it&#8217;s not really like you&#8217;re getting 3 months of your salary.  I got 6 weeks at 80% of salary paid thru my insurance.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: admin</title><link>http://www.financialsamurai.com/2009/12/11/someone-has-to-give-birth-women-shouldnt-be-penalized-for-being-moms/comment-page-1/#comment-4471</link> <dc:creator>admin</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sat, 30 Jan 2010 01:23:27 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.financialsamurai.com/?p=720#comment-4471</guid> <description>Trish - I WISH my wife made twice as much as me.  If she did, I&#039;d retire early and just chill :)</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Trish &#8211; I WISH my wife made twice as much as me.  If she did, I&#8217;d retire early and just chill :)</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Trish</title><link>http://www.financialsamurai.com/2009/12/11/someone-has-to-give-birth-women-shouldnt-be-penalized-for-being-moms/comment-page-1/#comment-4467</link> <dc:creator>Trish</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 21:11:58 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.financialsamurai.com/?p=720#comment-4467</guid> <description>I don&#039;t know about most women but i make twice as much as my husband.
.-= Trish´s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://vasectomycare.com/contact/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Contact Us&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know about most women but i make twice as much as my husband.<br
/> <span
class="cluv"> Trish´s last blog ..<a
href="http://vasectomycare.com/contact/" rel="nofollow">Contact Us</a> <span
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class="heart_tip" alt="My ComLuv Profile" border="0" width="16" height="14" src="http://www.financialsamurai.com/wp-content/plugins/commentluv/images/littleheart.gif"/></span></span></p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: admin</title><link>http://www.financialsamurai.com/2009/12/11/someone-has-to-give-birth-women-shouldnt-be-penalized-for-being-moms/comment-page-1/#comment-3514</link> <dc:creator>admin</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 06 Jan 2010 19:21:57 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.financialsamurai.com/?p=720#comment-3514</guid> <description>@ Honey - As a woman, you provide interesting perspective.  Being able to afford a kid is an interesting topic we&#039;ll be discussing here in the future.  If one can&#039;t afford to take care of one&#039;s own finances, why have kids in the first place?  One maybe, two OK, but 3, 4, 5?!</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Honey &#8211; As a woman, you provide interesting perspective.  Being able to afford a kid is an interesting topic we&#8217;ll be discussing here in the future.  If one can&#8217;t afford to take care of one&#8217;s own finances, why have kids in the first place?  One maybe, two OK, but 3, 4, 5?!</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Honey</title><link>http://www.financialsamurai.com/2009/12/11/someone-has-to-give-birth-women-shouldnt-be-penalized-for-being-moms/comment-page-1/#comment-3513</link> <dc:creator>Honey</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 06 Jan 2010 18:59:47 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.financialsamurai.com/?p=720#comment-3513</guid> <description>I think that maternity and paternity leave is fine as far as protecting the job - but no one should be paid (by anyone, gov&#039;t or business) for that time off.  If you can&#039;t afford to take the time off, YOU CAN&#039;T AFFORD TO HAVE A KID.  Personally, I think that the tax break for children should be taken away, as well, and for the same reason.
.-= Honey´s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://honeyandlance.com/beautifulpeople-com-gives-5000-fatties-the-boot&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Beautifulpeople.com gives 5000 Fatties the Boot&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that maternity and paternity leave is fine as far as protecting the job &#8211; but no one should be paid (by anyone, gov&#8217;t or business) for that time off.  If you can&#8217;t afford to take the time off, YOU CAN&#8217;T AFFORD TO HAVE A KID.  Personally, I think that the tax break for children should be taken away, as well, and for the same reason.<br
/> <span
class="cluv"> Honey´s last blog ..<a
href="http://honeyandlance.com/beautifulpeople-com-gives-5000-fatties-the-boot" rel="nofollow">Beautifulpeople.com gives 5000 Fatties the Boot</a> <span
class="heart_tip_box"><img
class="heart_tip" alt="My ComLuv Profile" border="0" width="16" height="14" src="http://www.financialsamurai.com/wp-content/plugins/commentluv/images/littleheart.gif"/></span></span></p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Top 135+ Personal Finance Posts for 2009 (That can be used 2010 and beyond)</title><link>http://www.financialsamurai.com/2009/12/11/someone-has-to-give-birth-women-shouldnt-be-penalized-for-being-moms/comment-page-1/#comment-3174</link> <dc:creator>Top 135+ Personal Finance Posts for 2009 (That can be used 2010 and beyond)</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 28 Dec 2009 17:34:13 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.financialsamurai.com/?p=720#comment-3174</guid> <description>[...] Someone Has To Give Birth, Women Shouldn&#8217;t Be Penalized For Being Moms, we discuss the prejudice against a women, from another woman&#8217;s perspective, and why we feel all women in the work place should get as much slack as possible.    photo credit: inked78 [...]</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Someone Has To Give Birth, Women Shouldn&#8217;t Be Penalized For Being Moms, we discuss the prejudice against a women, from another woman&#8217;s perspective, and why we feel all women in the work place should get as much slack as possible.    photo credit: inked78 [...]</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Sara</title><link>http://www.financialsamurai.com/2009/12/11/someone-has-to-give-birth-women-shouldnt-be-penalized-for-being-moms/comment-page-1/#comment-3031</link> <dc:creator>Sara</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 04:21:18 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.financialsamurai.com/?p=720#comment-3031</guid> <description>Right on!&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-2743&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Sandy L  &lt;/a&gt;</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right on!<a
href="#comment-2743" rel="nofollow">@Sandy L </a></p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: admin</title><link>http://www.financialsamurai.com/2009/12/11/someone-has-to-give-birth-women-shouldnt-be-penalized-for-being-moms/comment-page-1/#comment-3030</link> <dc:creator>admin</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 04:18:57 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.financialsamurai.com/?p=720#comment-3030</guid> <description>Sara - Maybe not, but do companies need 6 months (not 9) to even plan  I would think 3 months of planning, or even 1-2 months should suffice to hold down the fort for the 3 months the woman is out no?</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sara &#8211; Maybe not, but do companies need 6 months (not 9) to even plan  I would think 3 months of planning, or even 1-2 months should suffice to hold down the fort for the 3 months the woman is out no?</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Sara</title><link>http://www.financialsamurai.com/2009/12/11/someone-has-to-give-birth-women-shouldnt-be-penalized-for-being-moms/comment-page-1/#comment-3029</link> <dc:creator>Sara</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 04:13:42 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.financialsamurai.com/?p=720#comment-3029</guid> <description>Do you really think the company gets 9 months to plan resource allocation?  Like the second a woman gets pregnant she runs and tells the boss?  I agree with your principle, but just sayin&#039;!&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-2736&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Rich Money Habits  &lt;/a&gt;</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you really think the company gets 9 months to plan resource allocation?  Like the second a woman gets pregnant she runs and tells the boss?  I agree with your principle, but just sayin&#8217;!<a
href="#comment-2736" rel="nofollow">@Rich Money Habits </a></p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Weekend reading: Blog battle of the sexes</title><link>http://www.financialsamurai.com/2009/12/11/someone-has-to-give-birth-women-shouldnt-be-penalized-for-being-moms/comment-page-1/#comment-2987</link> <dc:creator>Weekend reading: Blog battle of the sexes</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sat, 19 Dec 2009 13:04:03 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.financialsamurai.com/?p=720#comment-2987</guid> <description>[...] takes a more traditional, pro-empowerment stance: At the end of that one night of passion, someone has to give birth eventually. And since that [...]</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] takes a more traditional, pro-empowerment stance: At the end of that one night of passion, someone has to give birth eventually. And since that [...]</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: admin</title><link>http://www.financialsamurai.com/2009/12/11/someone-has-to-give-birth-women-shouldnt-be-penalized-for-being-moms/comment-page-1/#comment-2972</link> <dc:creator>admin</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 23:42:28 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.financialsamurai.com/?p=720#comment-2972</guid> <description>Jerry - Thanks for your thoughts.  I think the 40-something yr old manager might very well be upset that she herself doesn&#039;t have kids and a family.  Who knows for sure.  Everybody has their own gripes.
Look forward to seeing you around!</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jerry &#8211; Thanks for your thoughts.  I think the 40-something yr old manager might very well be upset that she herself doesn&#8217;t have kids and a family.  Who knows for sure.  Everybody has their own gripes.</p><p>Look forward to seeing you around!</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Jerry</title><link>http://www.financialsamurai.com/2009/12/11/someone-has-to-give-birth-women-shouldnt-be-penalized-for-being-moms/comment-page-1/#comment-2971</link> <dc:creator>Jerry</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 23:26:02 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.financialsamurai.com/?p=720#comment-2971</guid> <description>Samurai, I appreciate your thoughtful insight into this matter.  Women shouldn&#039;t be penalized for being women.  I&#039;m surprised that this 40 something manager is so harsh but then she may pass judgement because she&#039;s made different life choices.  As a father and someone who watched his wife go through a short maternity leave, we in America really don&#039;t get it.  I don&#039;t know what the perfect answer is because probably everything would cost more (insurance premiums, lowered perks, etc.) if you gave women more time with their babies but it&#039;s worth it.  If the women want it let them have it.  It will lead to good things.  Moms need to bond with their children.  It&#039;s good for society.  It&#039;s good for the world.
Jerry</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Samurai, I appreciate your thoughtful insight into this matter.  Women shouldn&#8217;t be penalized for being women.  I&#8217;m surprised that this 40 something manager is so harsh but then she may pass judgement because she&#8217;s made different life choices.  As a father and someone who watched his wife go through a short maternity leave, we in America really don&#8217;t get it.  I don&#8217;t know what the perfect answer is because probably everything would cost more (insurance premiums, lowered perks, etc.) if you gave women more time with their babies but it&#8217;s worth it.  If the women want it let them have it.  It will lead to good things.  Moms need to bond with their children.  It&#8217;s good for society.  It&#8217;s good for the world.<br
/> Jerry</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Roger</title><link>http://www.financialsamurai.com/2009/12/11/someone-has-to-give-birth-women-shouldnt-be-penalized-for-being-moms/comment-page-1/#comment-2935</link> <dc:creator>Roger</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 00:27:37 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.financialsamurai.com/?p=720#comment-2935</guid> <description>&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;#commentbody-2733&quot;&gt;
&lt;strong&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-2733&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;BawldGuy&lt;/a&gt; :&lt;/strong&gt;
Do I, as an employer have any rights? Or am I merely the Golden Goose/ATM machine? Women get to choose but I have no choice? Welcome to 1984.
BawldGuy´s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://feedproxy.google.com/%7Er/BawldguyTalking/%7E3/JMPENHXbdhw/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Munching On the Numbers – Thursday&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Of course you have rights.  However, you, like every business owner, will have to deal with laws of the country in which you work, the rules of the contracts you sign, and competition for employees and customers.  If you choose to not provide any benefits for women who give birth, your company will be that much less competitive for workers, not only women, but men who want to work for a company that provides such benefits.  You might also find your potential customers taking advantage of their rights to choose another company with whom to do business.  If you offer maternity (or paternity, for matter) benefits to your employees and then try to withhold them or drop your employees for using them, you may find yourself facing your employee in court or getting a lot of unwanted publicity as result.  If you try to avoid hiring women to avoid having to deal with potential pregnancies, you could find the government coming after you for discrimination, or facing angry hoards of protesters trying to change your policy (and did I mention having a tougher time finding employees?)  If you can find ways to stay competitive while offering your employees the lowest level of maternity/paternity benefits required by law, good for you, but don&#039;t be surprised if there&#039;s some blow back.
Alright, onto FS&#039;s questions.  I think there&#039;s a number of factors that come into play when looking at studies showing lower pay for women, some of which have already been covered.  Women, if I may generalize a bit, do tend to spend more time away from work for family, opt for more benefits in exchange for lower pay, and choose lower paying careers.  As to how we can close that gap, I don&#039;t really know of a good way other than forcing employers to make up the difference (which seems more intrusive than I&#039;d prefer).
There might be some managers who discount a woman&#039;s salary for fear of potential childbearing, either due to their personal feelings or perhaps institutional policy (although the latter would seem to raise all kinds of potential legal qualms).  But I think it&#039;s more likely simply that time away from work leads to fewer raises and opportunities for promotion, causing a gap between male and female salaries later in working life.  Extending paternity leave might help to level the playing field, but it&#039;s far from a magic bullet; you&#039;d have to force men to take as much time off to help raise children as women do in order to make everything work out.
.-= Roger´s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.theamateurfinancier.com/blog/weekly-thoughts-dont-trust-petitions/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Weekly Thoughts: Don’t Trust Petitions&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote
cite="#commentbody-2733"><p> <strong><a
href="#comment-2733" rel="nofollow">BawldGuy</a> :</strong><br
/> Do I, as an employer have any rights? Or am I merely the Golden Goose/ATM machine? Women get to choose but I have no choice? Welcome to 1984.<br
/> BawldGuy´s last blog ..<a
href="http://feedproxy.google.com/%7Er/BawldguyTalking/%7E3/JMPENHXbdhw/" rel="nofollow">Munching On the Numbers – Thursday</a></p></blockquote><p>Of course you have rights.  However, you, like every business owner, will have to deal with laws of the country in which you work, the rules of the contracts you sign, and competition for employees and customers.  If you choose to not provide any benefits for women who give birth, your company will be that much less competitive for workers, not only women, but men who want to work for a company that provides such benefits.  You might also find your potential customers taking advantage of their rights to choose another company with whom to do business.  If you offer maternity (or paternity, for matter) benefits to your employees and then try to withhold them or drop your employees for using them, you may find yourself facing your employee in court or getting a lot of unwanted publicity as result.  If you try to avoid hiring women to avoid having to deal with potential pregnancies, you could find the government coming after you for discrimination, or facing angry hoards of protesters trying to change your policy (and did I mention having a tougher time finding employees?)  If you can find ways to stay competitive while offering your employees the lowest level of maternity/paternity benefits required by law, good for you, but don&#8217;t be surprised if there&#8217;s some blow back.</p><p>Alright, onto FS&#8217;s questions.  I think there&#8217;s a number of factors that come into play when looking at studies showing lower pay for women, some of which have already been covered.  Women, if I may generalize a bit, do tend to spend more time away from work for family, opt for more benefits in exchange for lower pay, and choose lower paying careers.  As to how we can close that gap, I don&#8217;t really know of a good way other than forcing employers to make up the difference (which seems more intrusive than I&#8217;d prefer).</p><p>There might be some managers who discount a woman&#8217;s salary for fear of potential childbearing, either due to their personal feelings or perhaps institutional policy (although the latter would seem to raise all kinds of potential legal qualms).  But I think it&#8217;s more likely simply that time away from work leads to fewer raises and opportunities for promotion, causing a gap between male and female salaries later in working life.  Extending paternity leave might help to level the playing field, but it&#8217;s far from a magic bullet; you&#8217;d have to force men to take as much time off to help raise children as women do in order to make everything work out.<br
/> <span
class="cluv"> Roger´s last blog ..<a
href="http://www.theamateurfinancier.com/blog/weekly-thoughts-dont-trust-petitions/" rel="nofollow">Weekly Thoughts: Don’t Trust Petitions</a> <span
class="heart_tip_box"><img
class="heart_tip" alt="My ComLuv Profile" border="0" width="16" height="14" src="http://www.financialsamurai.com/wp-content/plugins/commentluv/images/littleheart.gif"/></span></span></p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: The Katana 12/14: What's Your One Word Definition of Happiness? &#124; Financial Samurai</title><link>http://www.financialsamurai.com/2009/12/11/someone-has-to-give-birth-women-shouldnt-be-penalized-for-being-moms/comment-page-1/#comment-2824</link> <dc:creator>The Katana 12/14: What's Your One Word Definition of Happiness? &#124; Financial Samurai</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 09:05:19 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.financialsamurai.com/?p=720#comment-2824</guid> <description>[...] you haven&#8217;t already, please read &#8220;Someone Has to Give Birth!  Why Women Shouldn&#8217;t Be Penalize For Being A Mom.&#8221; I was impressed with the strong turnout of the male contingent, and less so impressed by the female [...]</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] you haven&#8217;t already, please read &#8220;Someone Has to Give Birth!  Why Women Shouldn&#8217;t Be Penalize For Being A Mom.&#8221; I was impressed with the strong turnout of the male contingent, and less so impressed by the female [...]</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: admin</title><link>http://www.financialsamurai.com/2009/12/11/someone-has-to-give-birth-women-shouldnt-be-penalized-for-being-moms/comment-page-1/#comment-2813</link> <dc:creator>admin</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sun, 13 Dec 2009 22:05:15 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.financialsamurai.com/?p=720#comment-2813</guid> <description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-2811&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Karen L. &lt;/a&gt;
Karen, great comments!  Thanks for sharing your thoughts.  You make a good point about things evening out, since so many people have children, as well as get sick.  What goes around comes around as they say.
Good luck with your first baby and hope to hear more of your thoughts in the future!</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a
href="#comment-2811" rel="nofollow">@Karen L. </a><br
/> Karen, great comments!  Thanks for sharing your thoughts.  You make a good point about things evening out, since so many people have children, as well as get sick.  What goes around comes around as they say.</p><p>Good luck with your first baby and hope to hear more of your thoughts in the future!</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> </channel> </rss>
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