In Defense Of Resourceful Women – Let’s Fix The Double Standard

"He said he'd love me tenderly"

“He said he’d love me tenderly”

In “If You Were Broke Would You Settle For Someone Less Than Ideal,” poor Amanda was destined to fail in comparison to six figure earning Victoria the way I wrote the comparison. I didn’t do a good enough job painting Amanda’s situation as a woman who was just getting over heart break and not looking for anything serious. It was easy for readers to paint Amanda as the villain for accepting financial assistance from a potential suitor.

Despite my own admission that I, too, would settle for someone in exchange for financial assistance, it was interesting to see 100% of the assault go to Amanda and not myself. Spend some time reading the comments. Perhaps it’s easier to look down upon a stranger rather than a familiar host. But what I hypothesize is that there is a HUGE double standard between men and women that cannot easily be eradicated.

It’s easy for those of us in good relationships or those who have money to dismiss settling for money and someone when we really can’t say! It’s like a billionaire telling us we should all pay more taxes while he continues to pay a 15% effective tax rate due to most of her income coming from long term dividends. Please don’t judge others if you aren’t in their shoes.

Now that you know the true goal of the “If You Were Broke” post to highlight double standard attitudes between men and women, I’d like to craft an argument as to why it’s OK to be a resourceful person. In the future, I’d like for all of you who love to criticize people about their choices to consistently criticize everybody all the time. Equality for all!

THERE’S NOTHING WRONG WITH BEING RESOURCEFUL

Amanda may be lacking funds, but she is an independent woman who knows a lot of people in the food and entertainment industry. Because she is attractive and has a friendly personality, she’s able to live a life above her financial means. There are tens of millions of people with revolving credit card debt living similar lives. We aren’t crucifying them are we?

In my circle, this is called friends taking care of friends no matter what their financial situation. Many of Amanda’s friends are older and therefore have more money and connections. Who are we to fault someone with friends with means? Having connections is how many people get ahead. To not utilize one’s resources would be foolish. If your father was the President of Yale for 20 years, of course you’re going to apply and get in. If you’re 7 feet tall, you definitely should consider playing basketball. If you have a hard head and an ability to write about various topics that consistently receive criticism from readers, then perhaps you should be a blogger!

I know plenty of Goldman Sachs classmates who were able to land their front office jobs because their mother was a partner, their parents were Asset Management clients with a minimum of $20 million with the firm, or their father was the Prime Minister of Canada or even China! If you were Goldman, why wouldn’t you hire the son of a powerful country’s leader to make it easier to win banking business? Sure my classmates were plenty smart as well, but let’s not kid ourselves. Being smart only gets you so far. A wise person knows his or her attributes and smartly magnifies the good parts to get ahead, looks included.

Amanda lives a life that belies her financial situation because she is resourceful. Amanda didn’t ask to be born attractive, but she’s certainly not going to hide her appearance from the world. People treat attractive people better and Amanda understands this indisputable law like everybody else. Amanda logically gets an outsized percentage of wealthy suitors chasing after her. So when she hears my question about settling for a less than ideal partner to save her, it’s nothing special because they are a dime a dozen.

A favorite quote from the “Broke” article:

I enjoy that both the women do the opposite of what they said. The one girl (Victoria) who said “no” is dating a wealthy guy and the girl (Amanda) who said “yes” is in love with the bartender. Also don’t be surprised Amanda likes the pudgy bartender. Girls are also attracted to social status as much or more than looks and there is no profession on earth with as much feigned social status as bartender. Everybody in the room is sucking up to you for free drinks, they all are trying to get your attention, you know and are friendly with most people. It is like being a mini-celebrity.

Again, it’s so easy for us to say one thing and do another. Commenter Shaun makes a sagacious point that despite Amanda saying she would settle for a wealthy suitor – for which she has many – her main squeeze at the time was a bartender who isn’t wealthy nor is he even that attractive. That shows us that Amanda doesn’t really care so much about wealth as much as the chemistry between two people. She might very well love to party, which her bartender boyfriend at a trendy establishment facilitates. But one can only party so much before something more needs to kick in.

DOUBLE STANDARDS BETWEEN MEN AND WOMEN

Although good looking guys are rare compared to good looking women, handsome men are also nothing special because women continuously de-emphasize looks and emphasize character and financial stability. One close female friend I’ve known for 18 years said she doesn’t care a bit about looks, only the possibility of the man being able to provide her a fabulous life. What? That’s a new one, but I’m listening. This is coming from a woman who went to Cornell, and then to Boston College and is now earning six figures a year as a lawyer.

When men settle for a woman for financial means, it’s a cute novelty. When women do the same thing, the claws come out from competing women and disdain appears from men who are pissed such attractive women don’t go out with them. Every guy is insecure in some way by their finances. Nothing irks a better looking, more charismatic, highly educated guy more when a rich fella takes away a beautiful woman from the dating pool. It’s similar to the constant envy you see from engineers for management personnel who make much more. The engineers were the smartest kids in school, but are the blue collar workers in most tech organizations.

From a guys perspective, we completely understand the rules of the game. More fame and wealth provides us more mating selection no matter what we look like. Billy Joel and Simon Cowell are rocking it! Hence, deep down we appreciate men who are able to go way beyond their league because they’ve done something successful with what they can control.

Because looks are mostly outside of our control to the extent that clothing, makeup, and surgery can help, the resentment among women for other beautiful women is quite palpable. I wrote an entire post entitled, “To Get Ahead In The Workplace Don’t Hate Beautiful Women” which explains from a manager’s perspective how difficult employee relationships can be between women. Being a being woman with very few female friends is absolutely normal.

WOMEN ARE IN CONTROL

Are women sometimes their worst enemies? How can there not be disappointment if such high expectations are created for career, money, and love? Men experience the same pressures, but on a superficial level we are more accepting of other men with big guts and unkempt beards. We don’t really talk amongst ourselves about how unattractive another man’s woman is because another man’s woman is sacred. Yet I hear women bash other women all the time! The only thing men like to compare notes on is our careers. Everything else doesn’t really matter.

Why doesn’t society let women act more like men in the relationship category? Men give each other high fives the more partners they get. If a woman wants to be our sugar mama, men are celebrating at a bar with a round of shots to meet more women! If a woman wants to find a sugar daddy, we talk about her lack of fortitude, courage, and honor and wonder why she can’t just make it on her own. There’s a no win situation.

So for all you liberated women out there with multiple lovers, enjoy! Don’t feel ashamed if some man wants to take care of you and you aren’t head over heels in love with him. Both you and him know what you’re getting yourself into. And for those who frown upon liberation, well there’s nothing you can do to stop it because equality is exactly where men and women are headed.

Readers, why do you think women are so much more critical of other women than men are of other men? Why do you think a double standard continues to exist between men and women in terms of relationships? What are some of the ways we can bring to light such double standards and fix them so that our daughters can live in a better environment?

Photo: Courtesy of RMA art collection, SF.

Best,

Sam

Sam started Financial Samurai in 2009 during the depths of the financial crisis as a way to make sense of chaos. After 13 years working on Wall Street, Sam decided to retire in 2012 to utilize everything he learned in business school to focus on online entrepreneurship.

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Comments

    • Financial Samurai says

      Maverick,

      No. The goals of the post are:

      1) To encourage people not to judge others without being in their shoes.

      2) To better understand other people’s situations to create more harmony.

      3) To highlight pervasive double standards between men and women and eliminate them.

  1. Cash Rebel says

    I think it goes back to the helpless princess narrative. Women are trying hard to prove that they don’t need a male “knight in shining Armour” to save them (because they don’t), that when another woman takes the “easy” way out it feels infuriating.
    All of my guy friends agree that marrying a rich cougar would be the coolest relationship ever, but that’s because it’s not very likely to happen.

    • Financial Samurai says

      I wonder if it’s not likely to happen b/c men aren’t proactive enough, or women won’t let it happen? I feel the woman is in charge most of the time, so hence it is the woman who prevents such relationships.

    • Untemplater says

      Interesting note about the princess narrative. When fairy tales were written times were sooooo different. Yet we still read these stories to our kids who get visions that its normal or something to dream about for a poor girl to be swept off her feet by prince charming. Women are more jealous of each other than men. Maybe some of that comes from reading too many fairy tales or just having more insecurity. Our society is so focused on women havig to be beautiful, fit, and dressed a certain way and that creates a lot of pressure and insecurities. I think guys have insecurities too but probably not to the same extent as women so they don’t really get hung up on jealousy. Women are constantly comparing themselves with other women whereas I don’t think guys do that much at all.

  2. joe says

    We all have to use what we got. If I have better connections, you bet I’d use them.
    Attractiveness doesn’t matter as much for guys. Women care less about that as we get older. We just need to be clean and relative in shape. A lot of relationship articles lately. How are you doing with your quest to find the perfect sugar mama?

  3. Martin says

    When a key opens many doors, they call it a master key. When a lock is opened by any and every key, well then, that lock is no good, now is it?

    Girls will always judge other girls. My last girlfriend almost had no female friends because she said all it did was cause drama. Anyways, I don’t know where I’m going with this. But I hope I don’t have a daughter.

      • Squid4Life says

        ohh that is so not true, :)
        successful women play nicer, act nicer and treat you nicer.
        I can count on one hand the number of female friends I have while I have a lot of male friends. It could so be because of family dynamics. My great, great grandmother was an only child, my great grandmother the only girl out of 8 children, my grandma was also the only girl out of 14, my mom one of 4 girls, with 12 total children and I am an only girl out of 5. I come from a family dominated by males purely in numbers. It was only logical that I surround myself and can relate easier to males. I was a total tomboy growing up in a farm. I am more capable than most women, but then again, with all those guys in the family, I had to learn to keep-up lol.
        Having a daughter is a beautiful thing. Teach her well and try to let them live their own life on their terms when it’s time for them to do it. I was super over protective of my little angel, it took my own daughter telling me that she could and to let her try to ease up. She made me realize, at her tender age of 3, that we the parents are the ones teaching our children how to fear, as children themselves are fearless.

  4. Christine says

    I think its terrible when people say they hope they don’t have a daughter! Great distance we’ve come with all the “liberation”.

    I don’t hang out with women or men who say discouraging things about women. That is one way I deal with double standards. First clue is all the negative things a person says about a group of people!

    I work in IT so I interact with a lot of men. However I love it when women are in the industry. I don’t get along with all women, however I also don’t get along with all men! The friends I hang out with after work is mostly women. And I get along with them. I am married so no real competition over men. But I’ve also been friends with these girls since I was a kid. There just wasn’t much clawing. We have rules. Don’t take your friend’s man. Be loyal. Be supportive. Is it really that hard?

    And if you want to be a sugar mama or find a sugar daddy, go right ahead! Its really none of my business.

  5. La Ballerina says

    I think women are definitely more critical over other women. The double standard exists in large part because women are keeping other women down. “Lean In” is a good book by Sheryl Sandberg, but of course it is written by a billionaire who can say anything she wants.

    Love reading the comments that show windows into people’s souls. Keep it up!

  6. Cindy @ GrowingHerWorth says

    I’m fairly new to your sites, so I’m still in the “getting to know you” phase. I like what I’ve read so far, and I can’t disagree with a lot of what you’ve said. I’ve read several of your articles about women, and relationships, and I have to say, it makes me sad.

    I totally agree in life that you have to use what you’ve got to get ahead. That could be brains, or personality, or even looks. I’ve never been one to rely on my looks, but I have to admit that there have been times I’ve used them to my advantage. Nice cleavage doesn’t hurt either.

    That being said, looks fade (and cleavage falls). You keep coming back to the point that most of us feel the way we feel because we don’t understand. But, this is a personal finance blog. I would hazard to say that most people here, even if they had some advantages in life, didn’t start off with a silver spoon and a trust fund. Most of us did have to get ahead on our own, and we had to do it ourselves.

    Sure, Amanda is suffering from a broken heart. We’ve all been there, and we all know it sucks. But, according to your description, the debt came during a previous relationship. She and her ex were living above their means, incurred debt, and ultimately ruined their relationship because of this. Instead of pulling herself up by her boot-straps and fixing the situation, Amanda turned around to live off of her parents and wealthy men. Okay, so right now she wants to have some fun. What happens when she’s done having fun? She’ll marry for money, just to support her lifestyle?

    You aren’t talking about using what you’ve got here. You’re talking about saying it’s okay to take advantage of other people, and not take responsibility for yourself, just because you are pretty. How would your feelings differ if Amanda weren’t attractive, or weren’t as attractive? An ugly girl dealing with heart break and credit card debt would be expected to own up to her past mistakes, and make changes. You’re basically patting the pretty girl on the head and saying “It’s okay, you’re too pretty to worry about that!”

    And actually, I feel much more offended by “male Amanda’s”, because in a way, it feels like there is something much more predatory about their behavior. Sure, you may encourage your male friends to date Sugar Mommas, but is it truly a Sugar Momma situation? Are they jobless guys with credit card debt who are living off their parents and these women? Or are they more like you; Successful men who are willing to date an equally or more successful woman? As you point out, there are loads of pretty women out there looking for a rich man. A lonely rich man, even ugly, has lots of options. Ego, pride, and social expectations mean that there are a lot less men out there looking for a rich woman. A lonely, rich woman has much more limited options in “buying” a mate.

    It makes me sad that this is so common that it’s become seen as normal, perfectly acceptable. It makes me sad that the more successful you become, male or female, the harder it is to find a mate that likes you for who you are. It makes me sad that so many pretty girls never explore their full potential, outside of their beauty, because so many people are telling them they shouldn’t have to. And it makes me sad that we’ve all become so materialistic, that any of this even matters when we’re talking about relationships.

    It also amazes me that so many men really are that primal, so basic. Apparently I haven’t been utilizing my cleavage nearly enough to my advantage!

    • Financial Samurai says

      Nice to meet you Cindy. I hope you can read several more posts before developing a better idea of how I think. Although I provide a lot of opinion, there are a lot of hidden meanings in my post which I don’t reveal, but where I hope my readers can shine a light on.

      Men are “primal, so basic.” We don’t deny this. We accept this. As a basic man myself, I’m trying to do my best to understand women so that I can be a better boyfriend, husband, and potential father to a daughter. I’ve seen a lot so far that perturbs me. It’s so damn difficult to get ahead in this crazy competitive world that I cannot fault someone for using their resources.

      I’m hoping that I will become a more understanding father and partner through the various comments on my posts. What I would really enjoy is reading more female perspective on such topics. In the end, it’s up to all of us to analyze what is said, figure out where the truth lies.

      Best,

      Sam

      • Cindy@Growing Her Worth says

        I can’t help but feeling a weird “tug”, if you will, when reading your articles relating to women and relationships. I sit here reading and think “You’re right, but no.” There ARE a lot of women out there like you describe. There seem to be an even larger number of them surrounding wealthy men. It makes me kinda sad for single, wealthy men. But, there are a lot of women out there that are nothing like that. And it isn’t necessarily about the situation. People react differently to situations based on their values, personalities, goals… All of the things that make us who we are. I know that girl that you’re describing; I know she exists, I’ve seen every variation of her. But I don’t want to be lumped in with her.

        Things have come a very long way for women as far as rights, freedoms, and opportunities. But as a woman, I can’t help but feeling sometimes that all of the changes have left us stuck somewhere in the middle. There aren’t any “right” decisions anymore. If you choose to be a stay at home mom, you’re seen as lazy, lacking ambition, and expecting someone to take care of you. Be successful in your career, and you’re cold, bitchy, and overly ambitious. Try to have both, and you’re selfish. Marry and have kids young, and you’re immature. Wait until you’re older and you’re selfish, lack priorities, and don’t know what you want. Sex, relationships, family and friends; No matter what choices you make, people are standing in the background waiting to tell you you’re wrong. We’re told we can have it all, and then expected to do it all, and do it perfectly.

        Every woman is different. We all have different experiences, hopes, dreams, motivations and fears. We’re all driven by different things. We all want different things. It’s hard not to generalize, but I guess they don’t really work for men or women. If you really want to be a better son, brother, partner or father, I’d say take the time to get to know her. Understand what makes her tick. Because no matter who she is, she isn’t like any other woman.

    • Bossman says

      Why do you think more women who blog don’t speak up and write similarly eloquent posts about relationships? Or do they? And I’m just not seeing any as well written with a message at the end?

      • Cindy @ GrowingHerWorth says

        That’s a good question! And a really hard one to answer.

        I think it somewhat has to do with acceptance. I know that whatever I write, I reread and rewrite, trying to make sure it isn’t taken the wrong way. And then after the fact, I worry, and over think, and fear how I might come across. I want to make my point, while pleasing everyone. Which really isn’t possible, and is kind of counterproductive. Relationships are just such personal things, something most people have such strong views on. It’s hard not to worry about coming across wrong, or saying something that others will disagree with. Even in commenting here, I worried about coming across as attacking Sam, because that’s not at all how I meant it, so I kept having to rewrite what I was trying to say. And I still don’t feel like it came across right. It was pointed out how harsh women can be to each other. And maybe that’s part of the problem; we know we’re going to be judged, and so we edit ourselves to avoid that as much as possible.

      • Squid4Life says

        As a successful woman, I have never really thought about blogging. That means time out of my schedule to dole out free advise which in my industry we charge a pretty penny for. If I am not getting the median fee at the least, I am not engaging in the activity. I know the value of my time and I find it more entertaining to read a few blogs than to write. I am not online much unless it is for business and I prefer not to spend too much time on my gadgets while my own life is so great. I don’t feel the need to let others into my world openly. I keep a handwritten old fashioned journal. It works for me. There is too much going on with women’s blog, too much hating and bashing. So I prefer to step clear of that arena. I am not one for drama even in cyberspace :) I am the quiet silent type that observes and evaluates but completely armed to the teeth in 4 languages. Yes I know I will be judged, I will probably be attacked etc etc., but I have served in the US military service and had to deal with A LOT out there, and nothing online will phase me. I am very thick skinned thankfully.

  7. Josh says

    First time commenting. Interesting post, but double standards exists for both men & women. For example, stay at home mom is acceptable, while a stay at home dad is generally frowned upon. Or it’s not as bad for a girl to slap or hit a guy, but not the other way around. A 35 year old female teacher sleeping with teenage boy isn’t considered as bad as 35 year old male teacher sleeping with a teenage girl, etc…I doubt gender double standards will ever go away since doing so is to turn a blind eye and ignore the obvious differences between men & women.

    Anyway, regarding resourceful women, society probably frowns upon them since most people assume intimacy/hooking up/etc is much more emotional for most women than it is for a typical guy. So when some girl is only looking at a guy’s financial resource & social status in pursuing a relationship, they’re sort of viewed as an emotionally cold, manipulative, gold digger. Also, your comment about liberated women with multiple lovers….how would you feel if that girl was your sister or daughter compared to if you had a son or brother who was as promiscuous? I think even other women would view that girl differently.

    • Financial Samurai says

      Hi Josh,

      Thanks for commenting. Good points you’ve made. And to answer your question, I try not to think about it. Much of what I’m writing recently comes from a perspective as a son, brother, partner, and potential father to a daughter. I think one of the biggest fears any man can have is being a father to a daughter because we aren’t women first of all, and we know all our thoughts as men about women. As a result, I’m doing my best to really think about different situations which entail women and men, so that when the inevitable time comes, I’ll be better prepared. I don’t think i’ll ever be ready, but I’m trying.

      I think you’ll enjoy this post called “Stay At Home Men Of The World UNITE!

      Cheers,

      Sam

      • Josh says

        You write well and discuss many interesting and useful topics. One caveat that all “resourceful” women should be aware of is that the type of guys who she’s likely to target for financial security/social status tend to have far more options than your average working joe when it comes to relationship and dating. Furthermore, these types of self made, ambitious, go getter alpha male guys typically have the wandering eye personality. As long as the women are aware of this fact and okay with their decisions, then it’s really no one else’s business.

        However, for both men and women, it’s probably best to try not to rely on others for financial security. I especially liked your post regarding people who put in average efforts and still expect to get ahead.

        http://www.financialsamurai.com/2011/08/31/are-there-really-people-who-only-work-40-hours-a-week-or-less/

  8. Allison says

    I think part of the issue of judgment has to do with insecurity and inherited misogyny. Women have been the subservient ones in past generations and we’re still cleaning up the mess–the idea that women are somehow less is perpetrated by subtle things we see every day, by men and women alike, and because of these things, some in the gender may feel insecure and want other women to validate their choices by following the same path. Some women feel threatened and judge when they see others being happy and successful at whatever they do (oftentimes without understanding the stress that other woman has to deal with).

    A specific case of this: a working mother vs. a stay-at-home mom. There’s an enormous pressure put on women to be able to have the great career and still be a beautiful, amazing homemaker. But working mothers are viewed as selfish because they’re apparently “letting other people raise their kids” (even if her husband is a stay-at-homer and does a great job–but the male side of this is a whole other kettle of fish), and stay-at-homers are judged as stupid, lazy, uneducated, unmotivated, and anti-feminist because they pour their time into their children and home, even if they had a job before they had kids. This might not be an issue unmarried men are aware of, but it gets nasty, passive aggressive, and even outright aggressive, and can happen everywhere from online to the grocery store to the family reunion.

    On an individual level, most people don’t actually think so little of others, but society as a whole promotes these ideas and stereotypes through the media, the internet, industry, etc., and we all suffer for it. Like the Clorox commercial where the idiot husband is too stupid to put the cap on the blender. Pfffft because only women know how to use kitchen appliances, right?

    It makes me sick. My husband taught me almost everything I know about cooking.

    • Dinah says

      YES.

      I think women are primed to be more critical of each other. Movies and television will portray the attractive woman as stupid and evil, while the plain (though still attractive) woman is considered smarter and kinder. Even the old Dove campaign “real women have curves” unconsciously pitted women against each other – you’re not a real woman if you’re shaped a certain way! Then on top of all that you’ll see gossip shows and magazines criticizing women for having cellulite and not wearing makeup. It’s like whatever you do, you’re screwed.

      • Financial Samurai says

        The question is, what should we do about it? How do we break down stereotypes and double standards? Should we write articles raising awareness? Send letters directly to directors? What are your suggestions?

        • Allison says

          People are already starting to raise awareness. There’s incredible backlash towards organizations/conferences/industries who encourage or don’t act against sexism, and since companies are more connected to the consumer via Twitter/Facebook/Youtube/etc., they get feedback far faster than ever before. The disturbing thing is that in industries which still somewhat consider themselves to be boy’s clubs (at least among consumers), a woman could net rape/death threats for discussing or criticizing its sexism. That should also be taken into account when evaluating how to deal with issues like this. The best thing to do to take care of problems like that though, is to be a good role model for the children and young adults around you, keep speaking up against it, and support those who choose to be more public voices against it.

    • Financial Samurai says

      I’ve never viewed stay at home parents in a negative light. Raising kids and taking care of the household is a tough, tough, job that can also be quiet lonely. As a stay at home worker for the past 16 months I can empathize.

      I didn’t realize such negativity existed, so thanks for the heads up. One trick for those who work at home is to say “I work from a home office” instead of just “I work from home.” That helps.

    • Christine says

      Ah! My husband too is the great cook in the family! Nice :)

      I agree about the whole choosing sides about staying at home or working. I have talked to friends about feeling pressured to do all these things. Like people ask me because I’m a certain age if I have kids. I don’t and then they ask if I want kids. Which seems rather a private topic! But its just not the type of topic you have with a man the same age and in the workplace. Then I feel that bosses are wondering when this women is going to drop everything and have kids. And apparently hiring managers are wondering if I’m going to be bitchy to other women in the workplace! (previous comment). Mostly I try to make the focus about the work, not talk about personal things and of course be nice to both women and men in the workplace. I try not to look at them as “woman” or “man” but more what is that person looking for? Respect for their years in the industry? Collaboration? A person that can be counted on to solve their problems? And within reason I try to meet these needs.

  9. Bossman says

    As a hiring manager, I’ve got to admit that I pay extra attention when hiring a woman. I’m concerned about passive aggressive behavior and how other women tend to aggressively compete against other women in the workplace.

    Ever wonder why there are so many male coaches in professional female sports? It’s because women can be outright nasty and scary! There is a double standard largely because women refuse to let each other fly.

    I see you are getting cut down just for talking about women’s issues and trying to understand the situation better. Yet, the very same women cutting you down don’t bother to write anything about the situation. If people don’t have the courage to speak out, then they’ve got to just keep quiet.

  10. Tie the Money Knot says

    I think there are double standards all over the place. For example, if two people go on a date, the guy had better pay. It doesn’t matter if the woman makes 10x the money he does, he better pay (yeah some people male or female might say things should be 50/50 but I think they’re kidding themselves and don’t mean it even if they think they do). Is that fair to the guy? Does it matter? Same way that double standards toward women might there in some cases, but that’s often just the way it is.

    I’ve found that fairness is a tricky concept, and maybe not even relevant sometimes. Maybe there’s some natural imbalance that’s there in different ways toward each side, yet we start to attribute right/wrong to it?

    As for women being more critical of other women, that’s been my observation as well. Years ago I was in a meeting where two women were sniping at each other obviously trying to outshine one another, and it was particularly nasty. Neither came out looking good, but it was like watching a good show….get out the popcorn and watch the entertainment!

  11. krantcents says

    I think there will always be a variety of things I will never understand about women. It is sort of funny how the richer you get the more attractive you are to women.

    I made sure my children had good self esteem and the knowledge they could always discuss anything with me without judgment. It is up to parents to help their children become independent good people.

  12. Ace says

    I was (am) a single dad, who raised a daughter. You love your children whether boys or girls.

    Sam, when the time comes, you’ll do just fine as a father.

    • Financial Samurai says

      Thank you Ace. I fear I will be a terrible father and am doing my best at understanding inevitable difficult situations. All I want is for my children to be happy. I know my heart will break if my daughter goes through hardship. I guess I can only hope for the best and be there for her when she needs me most.

    • Ace says

      I don’t promise you a rose garden, sir! Children are always challenging. Especially the teenage years!

      Daughters and Dads have a special relationship. I have one with my daughter. Now that she is grown up, she seeks out my advice on many things. It’s all good.

      I’ve been reading your blog for several weeks. You seem very level headed. I think you will do just fine as a father. And, you appear to have plenty of resources (both time & finances). This will really help.

      FYI: I’m a Chicago guy who has lived in the San Francisco area before. SFO is a beautiful city, but I enjoy the sense of community in the Chicago area. Besides, we get New York City amenities for half the price! LOL!

  13. Ace says

    Traditionally, women marry wealth, and consequently, this would create a certain amount of competition between young single women. Men are very visual. We look for beauty.
    Fast cars and hot women!

    I think it’s DNA.

    Women instinctively, understand this, and try to present themselves in the most “pretty” manner possible. Women are very aware of similar behaviors in other women. I also sense that most women appreciate the beauty of other females (just check out magazines such as Cosmopolitan, etc.).

    We are speaking generallities here, and specific individuals will behave differently, but in aggregate, this is what you see.

    • Financial Samurai says

      There’s no denying I love fast cars or any nice car for that matter. But I’ve slayed my addiction and haven’t bought a new one or used one for the past 9 years. I changed cars every year for seven years before that! So maybe we can change our DNA.

  14. Kim@Eyesonthedollar says

    From your last post, I’ve been thinking about why I am so anti-Amanda, and I think it is maybe part genetic and part from my mother drilling into my head at an early age to be sure I was able to support myself, regardless of whether I have a man or not. I have never been poor because I made sure I was able to make my own money. If I couldn’t make money with what I do now, I’d find some other way besides looking for a sugar daddy.

    I think society expects more from women as far as looks, attitude, and career. You have to be able to keep all the plates spinning. I think that’s why women are generally much better at multitasking. In raising a daughter, I want to make sure she uses her mind more than her looks to get ahead, and I’d be really sad if she settled for someone just because of money.

    • Financial Samurai says

      If you’ve always been able to make your own money then it is difficult to understand someone who may be financially or career wise down on their luck at the moment. We discussed this topic before about what it’s like to be unemployed for a long time. So many folks brazenly just brush the unemployed off as lazy and unmotivated over the years. I just don’t think that’s true at all after interviewing long term unemployed people, going down to the unemployment office myself and see parents there to support their kids, and reading first hand posts from people here who have been unemployed.

      Life is going to throw curve balls at us. If we are fortunate so far, let us count out blessings and empathize and help those who are going through what I hope are temporary difficulties.

      What’s It Like To Be Unemployed – A first hand account of someone who’s been unemployed for a while.

      In Search For Empathy For The Unemployed – My experience down at the Employment Development Office in San Francisco.

  15. nbsdmp says

    So interestingly enough, I finally decided to dump my “Amanda” this week. I would not say that she was with me because of money, but it certainly was apparent in previous relationships that she never really dated poor guys and her career had never been a priority. I think there are two types of wealthy single men, those who really just want another “possession” or trophy, so they are tickled pink to have a hot model type on their arm…and there are those who truly want a partner and look at the content of a woman’s character more than the package that is on the outside. It is challenging because like you stated in many posts before, wealthy men have no shortage of opportunity…women find them, the trick is finding the one good ones because everybody is on their best behavior when you first meet.

  16. Shaun says

    Hey, a shoutout and called sagacious, both firsts for me!

    There is definitely way more social pressure that exists on women than on men. Sometimes though, I feel like a lot of it comes from other women and not from men. For example, a few years ago I brought a fairly promiscuous girl I had been casually seeing to a pool party my friends and I were having. I’ve never seen somebody treated so poorly and just openly hated on than this girl was by my friend’s girlfriends. At the same time all my buddies were giving me high fives and were plenty nice to her. Whenever I hear girls complain about a double standard I think of that day. Yes, there exists double standards but in a lot of cases its the women that perpetuate it and not the men. Take all the women away from that situation and nobody would have given this girl a hard time that day.

  17. Jack says

    Men – the thing to keep in mind about women is that almost all of them have a little voice inside their heads berating them for not being good enough at X, whatever X is at the moment. The slightest sign of stress, competition, danger, and the voice starts screaming.

    Don’t believe me? Ask your very very close female friends, and even then you might have to get them drunk first. I’ll bet you the only ones who say no are the tomboys / “one of the guys”

    Women are socialized to compete for men by making other women look bad. That translates into other areas of competition – sports, work, child-rearing.

  18. Grace says

    This article was really interesting. I agree with many points. A lot of people do differently from what they say. I think this is because psychologically people who claim one thing strongly really are fighting their inner urge to do what is forbidden. At least, that’s what I have observed.

    Amanda seems like she is having more fun with life than Victoria. You can say what you want but at the end of the day if you are going home to someone you love, you probably have a happier life than someone who says the right things but when push comes to shove craves material comforts.

    Also, I do think there is a double standard for men and women, but the real double standard comes with looks. For men, looks matter less. But if you are fabulously good looking like my ex was (6’0″ curly dark hair, blue eyed Australian construction foreman aka with six pack dimples, who would get recruited multiple times off the street for modeling gigs) then you could be dirt poor, broke, DUI ridden, potentially have STDs from so many partners, and girls would STILL want to date you.

    Any kind of extreme you have going for you, work it. Life is not fair but that’s why humans have resourcefulness and brain power. If you have any kind of skill, then use it! If you have impressive FICO scores or can analyze an excel spreadsheet or do math really quickly, somewhere out there, there is someone who appreciates that talent.

    For girls, it is worse. If you are ugly or unhealthily overweight, have small boobs, bad skin, acne, smell bad, or anything like that it is hard to get a guy to even give you a chance. No matter how much money you make, being a sugar mama is not going to work. Guys are programmed to look for fertile partners. Girls are programmed to look for providers. It is the way of nature…

  19. Stefanie @ The Broke and Beautiful Life says

    I’m so over the double standards, though, I have to admit, I have a tendency to tear other women down. Why do we do that? Our own insecurities I think. That’s a New Years Resolution for me!
    Anyway, I have used my looks to enjoy free drinks here and there, though I don’t think I’d be comfortable with much more beyond that.

  20. Squid4Life says

    These double standards will always exist. I have personally been discriminated against and hated; almost exiled because I am beautiful and I know it. :) The bonus is that I am not just a pretty face, I am also well educated and intelligent with grounded morals and values and pretty deep pockets. My lifestyle is not extravagant as I am very frugal and selective in what I buy. I invest in collectibles so my home is very different compare to most people. As a single parent, financial stability was necessary above all else. When women see another successful woman who has it all, they tend to get bitchy and nasty. Men are more competitive by nature and do well by being like this and this is normal accepted behavior. Let a woman act this way and she is bossy, bitchy, selfish, etc etc. When a woman marries for money she is called a gold digger but when a man marries for money he is called a con man or he gets the “Yay man you landed a sweet deal”. Pish posh society can kiss my rear. Marry whom you want because it really doesn’t matter to anyone else. It is your own private business. As for myself, I won’t date anyone that’s not on my level, not because of the money but for security. I know I have this much going on, if we are going to be teammates, we need to be on the same page financially, emotionally and physically. Yep< I said physically, for I want a partner that will be there through the end with me, not just kick out halfway. Sounds totally selfish but I know what I want.

    Being a parent, a single parent, in no way impacted my finances as it is only two of us in the household and it does not cost much to feed one more, eh it was a minute difference. It did however increase my awareness to healthier food. I shop less and for better quality.

    As a woman, I have no qualms admitting another is better looking or more successful. When I see another woman more successful than me, I engage them in conversation and ask them how they got to where they got. Flattery always works because people want to hear themselves talk about their successes. Food for thought.

    Squid4Life

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