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Is frugality an incurable disease?

Started by Sam, September 16, 2018, 09:58:01 AM

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Sam

Part of the reason why I published Samurai September: Your Financial Cheat Month (https://www.financialsamurai.com/samurai-september-your-financial-cheat-month/) is to will myself to spend more money. One of the things I wanted to get was a $118 pair of jogging pants with zipper pockets. But I've gone to the store 3X now and I cannot get myself to buy the damn pants. Instead, I went and bought $40 Adidas track pants with zippers and feel it's good enough.

I was also trying to will myself to spend money on a new iPhone. Business expense of course. But after 30 minutes of excitement watching the new features on video, I decided NAAAAH. My iPhone 7+ is good enough, and instead, I spent $107 fixing my stupid cracked screen instead of spending $1,300.

What are some ways in which you've willed yourself to spend more? How is it that so many Americans are able to spend so much and NOT feel guilty or terrible about their present and future? Do they simply not fear poverty or difficult times?
Regards,

Sam

numbers

Its beyond me how so many Americans spend so much and not feel guilty. For example I have never been in a Starbucks to pay $5.00 for a cup of coffee.
I have been very frugal my whole life, for example spending a half hour on the internet to find what I wanted to buy at a good price with no shipping and no sales tax.
With recent market returns and since I have retired, I have actually come around a bit. $ hundreds on a purchase don't matter any more, just buy it.  $ thousands on a purchase give me pause but what the hell, here and there, just spend it. $10,000 ok, that I have to think about. $100k and more - right now I am building a house and will be taking a couple of hundred thousand off the pot to supplement the money from the sale of my previous house. Thats ok because of the nature of the purchase.

The kids will be well taken care of, after that - well you cant take it with you.

numbers

So, I have been cured. Perhaps too cured.

Sam

Quote from: numbers on September 16, 2018, 11:20:03 AM
So, I have been cured. Perhaps too cured.

How old are you?  I'm thinking perhaps the cure is simply old age, or older age at least where you know you can't take it with you and time left is limited.

I'm guessing then I will be able to loosen the wallet when I'm 65 and my son is old enough to make it on his own. But I don't know.
Regards,

Sam

defomcduff

Background: my wife and I used to be super frugal, but no longer.  I would now describe us as high-income, high-spending, moderate saving.

Here's what allowed us to spend more:

1. A need to protect our own health, happiness, well-being as our most valuable asset with both parents working:
https://econdad.com/protecting-your-most-valuable-asset/

2. The long-term financial spreadsheet looks good, which shows: (1) we'll have more than enough in 5-10 years, (2) we both like the kind of work we're doing and view continuing to do that work positively.  So no need to save and scrimp if we're hitting our targets.

3. Being on a good enough path already.  We were saving more 5-10 years ago to try to kick start things onto a good path.  Now that the path is laid out, there's less uncertainty and risk with enjoying life a bit more.

Saving matters, but you can't take it with you.  I try to be balanced about it.

I would expect you to lighten up on frugality as you age, but, then again, I would have expected you to do it already.  So who knows.
DeForest
Boston, Massachusetts

numbers

Sam,
You hit the nail on the head just turned 66.
The old age comment hurts, but its right on point LOL!

Orphan

Well,
I was going to buy a new car with all bells and whistles. I was just going to do it and not beat myself overhead about the purchase. Went to the dealer and not wanting to waste anybody's time including my own I walked out the door.

At the time I thought I was being cheap not frugal. But the more I realised I was wasting money buying a "new" car the more I realized I was just being practical with my hard earned money. So I just bought a decent used one for 25% of the cost. I used the 10% rule for the purchase and it's fine with me..not so much with the wife. But that is the way it goes..

Sam

Quote from: numbers on September 16, 2018, 12:29:51 PM
Sam,
You hit the nail on the head just turned 66.
The old age comment hurts, but its right on point LOL!

Haha, sorry! I'm only one year off guessing your age. Or at least guessing when I'll start to feel like I can spend a lot more. Perceptive!
Regards,

Sam

Hayden

I think that spending more comes with knowing that it doesn't effect your overall plan. If long term savings plans look good and investment returns are healthy I find it easier to spend more. I also think that finding a way to give helps too. I find that it is easier to spend on myself when I am actively giving a portion of my income to a cause I support. I don't blame you Sam on the new phone, but come on.. buy the pants.
Very Respectfully,
Hayden

defomcduff

Quote from: Hayden on September 16, 2018, 09:20:36 PM
I think that spending more comes with knowing that it doesn't effect your overall plan.

Agreed!
DeForest
Boston, Massachusetts

Jsmith

I definitely find myself dealing with this as a recent college grad. Even though I have a great job to start out, I find myself unable to go out and spend money even on semi necessary things (For example, I've been putting off a trip to the mall to avoid buying new pants and shoes for work lol) At 22, I have a long way to go to get to the aging cure option  ;D

Hayden

Quote from: Jsmith on September 17, 2018, 07:03:42 AM
I definitely find myself dealing with this as a recent college grad. Even though I have a great job to start out, I find myself unable to go out and spend money even on semi necessary things (For example, I've been putting off a trip to the mall to avoid buying new pants and shoes for work lol) At 22, I have a long way to go to get to the aging cure option  ;D

I find myself never able to spend money on shoes. I do not know what it is, but I will wear my gym shoes until they start to rip through the sole. I think that living in this mindset will pay dividends after I max out all my investments and let my portfolio buy me new shoes.  ;)
Very Respectfully,
Hayden

nycrite

This post hits on what I was getting at in my "mental allocation for FIRE" question. At what point is frugality so distracting that it interferes with day-to-day decisions that should be trivial? At what point is it so distracting that it robs us of the ability to think about more important things? Saving money on gym clothes still costs time, and depending on what that time could have been spent doing, it probably came with an opportunity cost!

gkc

If its a disease we need to figure out a way to make it infectious. Way too many people up to their eyeballs in debt these days.

Bonsai

Quote from: gkc on September 17, 2018, 05:35:51 PM
If its a disease we need to figure out a way to make it infectious. Way too many people up to their eyeballs in debt these days.

I concur and I think Numbers has the right approach.  Set dollar levels that are meaningful to you, e.g., $200 or less, get it; $500 talk to you SO first; $5000 or more, budget (pre or post purchase).  Also determine a time period, e.g., $200 per month turns into $2400 per year and $500 every other month turns into $3000 per year - both less than an amount that determine to be a budget line item.  And Sam, with the asset base you present on FS, the jogging shorts and the iPhone are easily within means and probable limits.  Denying yourself those items to me seems incomprehensible and supportive of the "disease" descriptor.  Get them both.

EmilyMorgan

Being frugal is great. Being too frugal is not so great, I think.

When you try to save every penny, because you just lack cash for living, that's natural. But when you save every penny having a sufficient amount on your bank account, it's strange a bit.

To my mind, spending habits depend on how confident you are. Sometimes it's ok to spend a little bit more money if you have a stable job and earn enough to live and save. Although, emotional overspending is a disease.

Don't make frugality your disease, just be a smart spender!

Sam

Quote from: EmilyMorgan on November 05, 2019, 01:49:41 AM
Being frugal is great. Being too frugal is not so great, I think.

When you try to save every penny, because you just lack cash for living, that's natural. But when you save every penny having a sufficient amount on your bank account, it's strange a bit.

To my mind, spending habits depend on how confident you are. Sometimes it's ok to spend a little bit more money if you have a stable job and earn enough to live and save. Although, emotional overspending is a disease.

Don't make frugality your disease, just be a smart spender!

Good points. Focus on spending money on things you value the most.

I've found that once our son was born, I started loosening up a lot b/c I value him the most!
Regards,

Sam

Leigh

#17
Quote from: Sam on September 16, 2018, 09:58:01 AM
Part of the reason why I published Samurai September: Your Financial Cheat Month (https://www.financialsamurai.com/samurai-september-your-financial-cheat-month/) is to will myself to spend more money. One of the things I wanted to get was a $118 pair of jogging pants with zipper pockets. But I've gone to the store 3X now and I cannot get myself to buy the damn pants. Instead, I went and bought $40 Adidas track pants with zippers and feel it's good enough.

I was also trying to will myself to spend money on a new iPhone. Business expense of course. But after 30 minutes of excitement watching the new features on video, I decided NAAAAH. My iPhone 7+ is good enough, and instead, I spent $107 fixing my stupid cracked screen instead of spending $1,300.

What are some ways in which you've willed yourself to spend more? How is it that so many Americans are able to spend so much and NOT feel guilty or terrible about their present and future? Do they simply not fear poverty or difficult times?


Oh, Sam! You have my heart!

I completely understand where you are coming from. For YEARS, I bought the plastic lawn chairs, the $200 gas grill, stayed in cheap motels, ordered water with lemon and added sugar, (YES, I actually did that!)

And then one day...it was like a giant epiphany moment and my entire life flashed before me....and then the REST of my life flashed before me. What in the sam hill was I doing?? We had our retirement secured, why was I living like a miser, saving every dime and penny for my KIDS to spend??

So that was it. We installed that stone patio we'd been wanting for years. We got the Big Green Egg. I put bamboo blinds on the windows. And yes, we now go to Disney world and stay in the best hotel.

Why? Because I realized we weren't spending our savings. We were spending our children's inheritance. We have worked hard hard hard for our money and yet there wasn't a balance of fun/spend to offset the work/save.

Life is about balance. I'm going to die. And there will be money in the bank. So now I order the iced tea with lemonade, get that massage, and tip well. Life is short my friends. If you have your savings in a good place, at the very least make sure your fun/spend factor balances all of that work/save.

Your smiles should equal or surpass your sweat.

WengerTodd

#18
Stuff is "stuff..." and that's all it really is. As human beings, the concept of enjoyment is different from one person to the next. Personally, I'd have no interested in a brand new Ferrari or Lamborghini... other than the monetary value, I'd have absolutely no interest whatsoever in a brand new Ferrari. It's a different story if you ask me if I want a 1967 Ferrari 275 GTB. But some people get enjoyment by buying things, having things, or vacationing. Some people enjoy life living amongst nature in a serene environment. Some people... enjoy living life frugally.

Fueled by social media, our society has placed a lot of significance on a concept of wealth that's often epitomized by expensive vacations and flashy stuff... i.e. "spending money" and the appearance of wealth. As we all know, it's not what you make but what you keep. And people that drive around in flashy cars aren't always what they seem. Sometimes, they just really like the car, but other times, they're trying to give the appearance of wealth.

I wouldn't consider frugality an incurable disease because for many, the ability to save and be thrifty is it's own reward and accomplishment.

My parents have done really well for themselves, and they regularly talk to me about what they plan to leave me and my family. It's a very uncomfortable discussion for me because it's not anything that "I've earned," and... justifiably so, it's not mine. They've done really well in life, and have many years left to enjoy it. They're taking vacations and loving life, which is all I can hope for. But to put what I've said in context... my dad could easily buy an entire car dealership if he wants to. Ultimately, he's looking for a new car, and the new model of the car he wants just came out. He's very interested in it, but for him to spend full price on the car would likely ruin much of the enjoyment he'd get out of the new car. So, he's looking for a fully loaded model that's 1-2 years old already. For him, that would give him the satisfaction of a "new" car, and no loss of enjoyment for thinking he spent frivolously on it.

As I've personally gotten older, this mindset has rubbed off on me as well. I tend to look at things from the perspective of "Asset" versus "Liability." I used to be the kind of person who would buy things, not to look cool, but because I liked having nice things. Almost everything was associated with a hobby, and every new hobby came with it more expenses. Whether that was buying expensive car parts, or spending money on video games, or... whatever. After I got married and my wife became pregnant, I reverted back to my upbringing that inferred from my parent's financial behaviors.

Now, I only buy things when I need to. I still enjoy luxury, but only if it brings "value." An example of this is... I've completely renovated the home we live in. I did it myself after having done our rental home a couple years earlier. I don't mind spending extra money on luxury finishes when I know that the money being spent goes right back into the value of the home. Every time I look at the detail work or renovations I've made to the home, it brings joy, not just because I like the craftsmanship, but also knowing it's improved the home. Another example is in the past couple of years, I've started a hobby of fixing vintage Swiss, German, and French watches. I buy mechanical watches by the bulk, totally disassemble them, clean them, and rebuild them. It's work, but it gives me satisfaction, and it also brings value. I buy a box of ~50 watches for maybe $70-100. Out of that box, I probably have 20 of them that I can turn around and sell for $300-400 each, maybe 5 are un-restorable, and the rest I probably end up selling between $50-75. I only keep 10 watches, so if there's one that's nicer... I keep that one and sell one I already have. But it's a hobby that provides value.

The goal for many is to appreciate the value of frugality. There's nothing wrong with buying nice things, but you just need to know why you're buying them and whether or not these things you buy add any value to your life or merely satisfy an immediate impulsive desire.