Author Topic: How Much Racism Would You Subject Your Children To To Build Character? Virginia  (Read 20206 times)

Sam

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Hi Folks,

I never thought growing up in Virginia for high school and college as a minority would build some street cred. But if the Governor and Attorney General were wearing blackface, you know racism was pretty prevalent throughout Virginia in the 80s and 90s.

I just thought as a 14-22 year old that that's just how things were in America. It was all I knew. Before then, I grew up in multiple countries overseas given my parents were in the foreign service. I just had to gut through it all - the bullying, the fighting, the name calling, etc.

Now that I'm adult living in diverse San Francisco, I look back at my time in Virginia as a rite of passage. Without all the racial altercations, I wouldn't have as much FIRE as I had post college to become financially independent as soon as possible. I have the self-confidence and strength to always stand up for myself.

I've been able to harness my desire for retribution into doing productive work. Without all the difficulties growing up, I do not think I'd be where I am today.

Hence, my question for all parents is: how much racism would you subject your children to? How do you know when to save your children from a bad school environment? Is it worth throwing your kid into the deep end by sending him or her to a poorly rated public school over a highly rated private school? If so, at what grade should parents do this?

I know this may seem like a crazy question or two. It's also sad some minorities have to think about these questions when this stuff would never even enter your mind if you were a majority. But it's the hardships we go through the make us stronger.

I'd love to know your race, your difficulties growing up, and where you grew up.

Here are some relevant posts I've written about racism.

https://www.financialsamurai.com/dear-minorities-use-racism-as-motivation-for-achieving-financial-independence/
https://www.financialsamurai.com/silent-threats-in-the-night-charlottesville/
https://www.financialsamurai.com/income-by-race-why-is-asian-income-so-high/
« Last Edit: February 11, 2019, 03:15:44 PM by Sam »
Regards,

Sam

elgie

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I'll bite w/ the disclaimer that I'm really here to learn more than anything.

My background: white, grew up in midwest town of about 60k (at the time) where the only diversity was really from the local AFB and nearby reservations. Gen X, so given the whiteness of the community, racism didn't really "register" with me other than some negative comments regarding Native Americans. Even today, people in the community will claim to not be racist and then turn around and diss on the Native Americans.

Now: live in largish metro area (2+ million), but it is still a very white city.
My kids, however, are not caucasian.

How much racism do we subject them to? We don't willingly, but we also don't shield them too much. Their grade school was mostly caucasian. Middle school is more diverse where whites are about 55% of the student population. HS is/will be about the same. My son, whether because he's a boy or just the crowd he runs in, has encountered more racially charged comments than my daughter seems to have - though she is fairly naive if I'm being honest.

What have we done? We talk to them about it, occasionally ask questions. Honestly, the kids like the diversity they have now in middle-school/high-school and now many (not all) of their primary friends are of a similar racial profile to them. The kids like the fact they can talk about "race stuff" with their friends.

The school district (and even school system throughout the state) is far from great but we make do. Would we go to the worst schools in the district? No. We go to avg/avg+.

We live in an area of town that, while not the largest population of their race in the area, it has a good representation. Their eye dr. and preferred pediatrician are also non-caucasian.

The current schools are also good about having conversations about race with the students in part due to the makeup of the student body and tensions in the school. If our kids had serious issues, we'd cross that bridge when it happens.


Sydney

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I experienced racism in school and never told my parents, at least nothing in detail. I did speak up to my mother in high school that I wanted to switch schools due to gang violence, students disrespecting teachers, racial tension, and really wanting a better environment. I was fortunate that she was able to get me into a much better school.

Racism didn't fire me up to fight. Mostly it made me want to get out and go somewhere else. We all react differently I guess.

I also think there are so many ways to be motivated that don't require going through intentional hardships.

stevesheets

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My personal feeling is that the risk of being broken by a tough racial environment outweighs the potential benefits from being made stronger by the hardship. Of course, this is not based on much real data - I'm curious, how did the other Asian males that went to your school turn out?  How many were made stronger and how many were permanently harmed?

I'm grateful to my parents for raising me in an environment where I didn't feel different due to my racial identity. While the adversity might have made me stronger, I know my teenage self was more emotionally fragile - I might have been fine but I don't know.

Just like with your SUV and a lot of other things, you pay up to lower risk...

Sam

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My personal feeling is that the risk of being broken by a tough racial environment outweighs the potential benefits from being made stronger by the hardship. Of course, this is not based on much real data - I'm curious, how did the other Asian males that went to your school turn out?  How many were made stronger and how many were permanently harmed?

I'm grateful to my parents for raising me in an environment where I didn't feel different due to my racial identity. While the adversity might have made me stronger, I know my teenage self was more emotionally fragile - I might have been fine but I don't know.

Just like with your SUV and a lot of other things, you pay up to lower risk...

Very good point. VERY good point. Is it worth the risk?

But is it also worth the risk the other way as well? I don't want my son to turn into one of my three unmotivated neighbors who still lives at home with their parents as an adult.

I did a more thorough follow up post: https://www.financialsamurai.com/the-importance-of-feeling-consistently-uncomfortable-to-gain-financial-freedom/
Regards,

Sam

Tony

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I'm white, grew up in mostly white areas, and was overweight as a kid and have always been an introvert. My family was always middle class but tight on money. I moved around a lot from ages 5-12. Constantly being the new kid in school as well as being an introvert and not knowing anyone made me even quieter and less willing to interact with my peers. Likewise, when I was made fun of for being fat, I would just get even more quiet and shut down.

I think whether a child is an introvert/extrovert can greatly influence how they handle social hardships and adversity.

I do think putting your child in positions to overcome hardships and adversity is important, but I also think there are several ways to do this.

Personal experiences that greatly influenced me

Going on a winter weekend camping trip with the boyscouts where it snowed 3 days and was below freezing. I was 13. Having to be away from my parents and endure the cold and just being in an environment where you had to cook your food, find wood, stay warm etc and overcoming that challenge.

Being afraid of heights and going on a trip rappelling down cliffs (also with the boyscouts).

Working a job at 16 to have spending money to do stuff with my friends/being able to buy a car to drive. Achieving that sense of freedom on my own and having to work for it. Also, my parents didnt give me an allowance or anything so if I wanted to do things that cost money I had to find a way to make it.

Moving out of my parents house at 20 into a crappy house with my best friend (whose parents kicked him out cause he needed to learn how to live on his own) in a lower middle class neighborhood. Just the experience of being away from my parents and being on my own allowed me and my friend to change a lot from the person i was as a kid to an adult.

Ive never had to deal with racial discrimination. I do thinks it is important for children to deal with and learn how to overcome hardships. I dont think that hardship has to be racism. I think parents who are financially well off often over shelter or protect their children from dealing with a lot of hardships because its painful to watch your child struggle or fail. I think that often is what leads to their kids being unmotivated or lazy.

Money Ronin

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My kids, 10 and 11, want for nothing...except Adversity and Scarcity.  Racism, like Homelessness, Bullying, Hunger, Physical Violence, Poverty are theoretical constructs to them.  We talk about these concepts, they see it on TV and perhaps even in real life, but it doesn't apply to them. 

My kids live in a bubble at home and school.  Their school is so amazingly diverse and inclusionary that my kids needed to be taught about race and racism.  If asked to describe a friend, they might describe darker or lighter skinned friends but the terms African-American, Black, White, etc., were at one point foreign to them.  If you think about, a human being's skin is not really black, white, yellow, etc.

This is the ideal world that most people aspire to but we know the world is not like this outside the bubble.  It's a difficult challenge to expose our kids to the dark side of human nature without suffering some ill effect.  I would never knowingly place them in a situation where they experience racism but I do try to prepare them for the day that it comes. 

On the other had, I am all in favor of introducing them adversity and scarcity outside of their daily routines.  So this might include scouting where they are exposed to kids outside school.  This includes vacations to places where people are clearly poorer than the US, the food is "strange" and the lodgings may be without running water.  It might also entail sleep deprivation if they need to work late on a school project.  It could also mean that they go without iPhones and Nintendo Switches unlike most of their friends. 

Compared to our peers, my kids are not spoiled but they are coddled.  My kids seem very similar to their peers in terms of grit.  Based on what I've observed so far, they lack the determination and discipline that has made my wife and I so successful.  I suppose they'll need to make it based on their other "talents" (e.g., affluent parents). 

Sam

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My kids, 10 and 11, want for nothing...except Adversity and Scarcity.  Racism, like Homelessness, Bullying, Hunger, Physical Violence, Poverty are theoretical constructs to them.  We talk about these concepts, they see it on TV and perhaps even in real life, but it doesn't apply to them. 

My kids live in a bubble at home and school.  Their school is so amazingly diverse and inclusionary that my kids needed to be taught about race and racism.  If asked to describe a friend, they might describe darker or lighter skinned friends but the terms African-American, Black, White, etc., were at one point foreign to them.  If you think about, a human being's skin is not really black, white, yellow, etc.

This is the ideal world that most people aspire to but we know the world is not like this outside the bubble.  It's a difficult challenge to expose our kids to the dark side of human nature without suffering some ill effect.  I would never knowingly place them in a situation where they experience racism but I do try to prepare them for the day that it comes. 

On the other had, I am all in favor of introducing them adversity and scarcity outside of their daily routines.  So this might include scouting where they are exposed to kids outside school.  This includes vacations to places where people are clearly poorer than the US, the food is "strange" and the lodgings may be without running water.  It might also entail sleep deprivation if they need to work late on a school project.  It could also mean that they go without iPhones and Nintendo Switches unlike most of their friends. 

Compared to our peers, my kids are not spoiled but they are coddled.  My kids seem very similar to their peers in terms of grit.  Based on what I've observed so far, they lack the determination and discipline that has made my wife and I so successful.  I suppose they'll need to make it based on their other "talents" (e.g., affluent parents).

Do you feel every parent feels this way about their kids, that they are better than average in experience, intelligence, looks etc b/c it's hard for parents to see beyond our biases?
Regards,

Sam

Money Ronin

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My kids, 10 and 11, want for nothing...except Adversity and Scarcity.  Racism, like Homelessness, Bullying, Hunger, Physical Violence, Poverty are theoretical constructs to them.  We talk about these concepts, they see it on TV and perhaps even in real life, but it doesn't apply to them. 

My kids live in a bubble at home and school.  Their school is so amazingly diverse and inclusionary that my kids needed to be taught about race and racism.  If asked to describe a friend, they might describe darker or lighter skinned friends but the terms African-American, Black, White, etc., were at one point foreign to them.  If you think about, a human being's skin is not really black, white, yellow, etc.

This is the ideal world that most people aspire to but we know the world is not like this outside the bubble.  It's a difficult challenge to expose our kids to the dark side of human nature without suffering some ill effect.  I would never knowingly place them in a situation where they experience racism but I do try to prepare them for the day that it comes. 

On the other had, I am all in favor of introducing them adversity and scarcity outside of their daily routines.  So this might include scouting where they are exposed to kids outside school.  This includes vacations to places where people are clearly poorer than the US, the food is "strange" and the lodgings may be without running water.  It might also entail sleep deprivation if they need to work late on a school project.  It could also mean that they go without iPhones and Nintendo Switches unlike most of their friends. 

Compared to our peers, my kids are not spoiled but they are coddled.  My kids seem very similar to their peers in terms of grit.  Based on what I've observed so far, they lack the determination and discipline that has made my wife and I so successful.  I suppose they'll need to make it based on their other "talents" (e.g., affluent parents).

Do you feel every parent feels this way about their kids, that they are better than average in experience, intelligence, looks etc b/c it's hard for parents to see beyond our biases?

Yes, I am biased, but the other way.  Whereas I see clear improvement in each successive generation starting with my great-grandfather, I feel my kids will be less accomplished than me despite (perhaps because of) having more advantages (e.g., less racism, more money, involved parents, etc.)

I volunteer my time at a top public university to interview students for scholarships and internship opportunities so this deepens my concern about the gap between what is needed to succeed vs. my kids' drive and abilities.  I'm rather hard on my kids because of this perceived gap.  I tell them they have to work harder if they want X, Y and Z.  I probably should be more encouraging instead of secretly dismissing certain career choices due to their lack of grit. 

Of course this is just my perception of the world and my kids--it's quite subjective.  What is not subjective (and my kids know this) is that they always score in the 98 to 99 percentile on standardized tests.  I'm actually in disbelief because these scores do not translate to everyday tasks or skills needed to excel in the business world.  They'll walk out of the house in the rain with a t-shirt.  They'll make careless mistakes or skip homework problems entirely.  They'll complete their assignment but forget to turn it in.  They need to be reminded of the same mundane tasks every single day.

Having to "make it" on my own and working for 25 years, I have a strong opinion about who will get ahead: the genius who can't tie their own show laces or the above average person who wants to excel.  The answer is the latter.

So to answer your question, I do not believe that most parents are delusional, but I do believe that most parents think their kids don't live up to their potential.  People in general don't live up to their potential--we can all be so much more.

Fat Tony

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Sam, it sounds like you are a pretty resilient, tough-minded, aggressive and outgoing type of person. You were able to overcome the adversity and emerged stronger as a result. Drawing a questionable analogy to tough "tiger parenting" - yes you can make a strong kid by throwing troubles at them, but it is so easy to just overdo it in the name of "well this is what your parents did". It's good to have some fight in you to impact the world and feel empowered, but please never feel like you need to subject your nearest and and dearest to others' dehumanizing racism to build motivation. There are so many better ways to do it.

The absolute worst case are the kids who absolutely reject one culture or another and post toxicity since they hate the skin they are in, who go around saying "I'm not like those other Asians". The more average cases come out with some mild sense of identity confusion, resentment, chips in their shoulder, and a nagging sense of self-esteem questioning. You've mentioned you WANT your kids growing up knowing multiple languages - one of the quickest things that will lead a kid to wanting to reject their mother tongue is being perpetually teased for their associated race. Anyway, knowing your penchant for SF and Hawaii, I doubt your kids will experience any issues.

Being in a more friendly environment can do wonders for a kid's development. You mention self-esteem as well in another post. Feeling unloved, out of place, and a perpetual foreigner can really do permanent harm to one's confidence and self esteem. I don't know where exactly on the personality spectrum the split is - perhaps if you're very extroverted and low in neuroticism, trial-by-fire is great, but for introverted and more neurotic kids, trial-by-fire may just roast them into a crisp. Anecdata: I came from a line of very stereotypically nerdy Asian immigrants. Moving from a 95% white town to a 60% white one was a sea change. I rejected many things Asian about myself to try and fit in for a long, long time. Only to finally realize after nearly a decade of struggling with this crisis that I was happier otherwise. The lack of, or lessened racial tension definitely helped, along with the subtly different cultural focus (nerds were never truly unpopular as in the stereotypical American HS), the social environment was friendlier, etc.

Finally, I'm sure growing up as a kid in the 2020s will be different and friendlier than 1980s America - racial attitudes have changed so much. In fact, only 48% of Americans approved of interracial marriage as recently as 1995, which is 87% in 2013. https://news.gallup.com/poll/163697/approve-marriage-blacks-whites.aspx

If you have time, I recommend reading "The Souls of Yellow Folk" by Wesley Yang

So the answer is, knowing my own personality type, and the likelihood of my kids taking after at least some of these, very minimal racism. I want them to know it exists and it is bad and they may have to deal with it and not to do it to others. But to experience it on a personal level, to be deeply humiliated, to build an emergent fighter? Unfortunately to the stereotype, but my type is more likely to just back down, hunker down, and be even more afraid than before.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2019, 06:53:49 PM by Fat Tony »

Leigh

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I would not risk my child's education to expose them to situations which might help form character. What I would do, and did, was make sure they spent time in developing countries helping others.

My child went to costa rica at the age of 15 and worked with children under the care of a couple who lived there and worked in the community. She came home forever changed. While she is a die-hard capitalist, her views on helping others, non-judging, minimalism, etc were formed during her time there. Nothing like seeing a gang of youth kicking a piece of styrofoam in place of a soccer ball to alter your world view.

Sam

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I would not risk my child's education to expose them to situations which might help form character. What I would do, and did, was make sure they spent time in developing countries helping others.

My child went to costa rica at the age of 15 and worked with children under the care of a couple who lived there and worked in the community. She came home forever changed. While she is a die-hard capitalist, her views on helping others, non-judging, minimalism, etc were formed during her time there. Nothing like seeing a gang of youth kicking a piece of styrofoam in place of a soccer ball to alter your world view.

That is great to hear! Did she go by herself?
Regards,

Sam

Sam

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Sam, it sounds like you are a pretty resilient, tough-minded, aggressive and outgoing type of person. You were able to overcome the adversity and emerged stronger as a result. Drawing a questionable analogy to tough "tiger parenting" - yes you can make a strong kid by throwing troubles at them, but it is so easy to just overdo it in the name of "well this is what your parents did". It's good to have some fight in you to impact the world and feel empowered, but please never feel like you need to subject your nearest and and dearest to others' dehumanizing racism to build motivation. There are so many better ways to do it.

The absolute worst case are the kids who absolutely reject one culture or another and post toxicity since they hate the skin they are in, who go around saying "I'm not like those other Asians". The more average cases come out with some mild sense of identity confusion, resentment, chips in their shoulder, and a nagging sense of self-esteem questioning. You've mentioned you WANT your kids growing up knowing multiple languages - one of the quickest things that will lead a kid to wanting to reject their mother tongue is being perpetually teased for their associated race. Anyway, knowing your penchant for SF and Hawaii, I doubt your kids will experience any issues.

Being in a more friendly environment can do wonders for a kid's development. You mention self-esteem as well in another post. Feeling unloved, out of place, and a perpetual foreigner can really do permanent harm to one's confidence and self esteem. I don't know where exactly on the personality spectrum the split is - perhaps if you're very extroverted and low in neuroticism, trial-by-fire is great, but for introverted and more neurotic kids, trial-by-fire may just roast them into a crisp. Anecdata: I came from a line of very stereotypically nerdy Asian immigrants. Moving from a 95% white town to a 60% white one was a sea change. I rejected many things Asian about myself to try and fit in for a long, long time. Only to finally realize after nearly a decade of struggling with this crisis that I was happier otherwise. The lack of, or lessened racial tension definitely helped, along with the subtly different cultural focus (nerds were never truly unpopular as in the stereotypical American HS), the social environment was friendlier, etc.

Finally, I'm sure growing up as a kid in the 2020s will be different and friendlier than 1980s America - racial attitudes have changed so much. In fact, only 48% of Americans approved of interracial marriage as recently as 1995, which is 87% in 2013. https://news.gallup.com/poll/163697/approve-marriage-blacks-whites.aspx

If you have time, I recommend reading "The Souls of Yellow Folk" by Wesley Yang

So the answer is, knowing my own personality type, and the likelihood of my kids taking after at least some of these, very minimal racism. I want them to know it exists and it is bad and they may have to deal with it and not to do it to others. But to experience it on a personal level, to be deeply humiliated, to build an emergent fighter? Unfortunately to the stereotype, but my type is more likely to just back down, hunker down, and be even more afraid than before.

Sounds good man. I really think personality and character is like 70% DNA. I’ll definitely have to play by ear as my boy gets older. He just started preschool. So far so good.
Regards,

Sam

WengerTodd

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Hi Folks,

I never thought growing up in Virginia for high school and college as a minority would build some street cred. But if the Governor and Attorney General were wearing blackface, you know racism was pretty prevalent throughout Virginia in the 80s and 90s.

I just thought as a 14-22 year old that that's just how things were in America. It was all I knew. Before then, I grew up in multiple countries overseas given my parents were in the foreign service. I just had to gut through it all - the bullying, the fighting, the name calling, etc.


I grew up in the 1980s in Richmond, Virginia, and through the 90s in Northern Virginia. I cannot ever remember experiencing or seeing any racism. Race was never a thing for me as a kid, it was never anything my parents discussed, or even talked about. I cannot think of a single time in my life living in Virginia that race was ever a thing. In Richmond, we were average middle class, and all the kids in the neighborhood played together. Same as on the playground.

When I grew up in the 90s in Northern Virginia, it was high school, and race wasn't a thing either. But, being that it was high school, everyone segregated each other based on clicks. There were those of us who did sports, the academics, then you had the Goths... who were generally all white kids who painted themselves with snow-white face paint, had black lipstick and nail-polish, and dressed in all black. We even had a group of kids who we called "Jerry's Kids" because they wore huge Mexican parkas, wore sandals, and bell-bottom pants, had long hair, and listed to Grateful Dead. There were the Orc-Dorks, and Band-Geeks, and then there were those kids who played Magic the Gathering that would hide under the stairwells during recess, and then generally the popular kids, and then some other smaller cliques. Generally speaking though, it wasn't based on race... because the Orc-Dorks consisted of every race, as did the sports crowd, and the computer club, and all the others.

I was part of the sports crowd (was REALLY good at track & field), but also the Orc Dorks. I really do wonder though if the whole Goth crowd is still a thing in schools?

EDIT: Wanted to say, I raise my children without using "race" as a term. As a matter of fact, until they addressed it in 5th grade, my kids had no idea this was even a concept because I'd never talked to them about it. ... and why should I? What is the point?

I always get a kick out of entitled middle class white Millennials flogging themselves at every opportunity to pacify a new victim group they themselves have created as they tell the rest of us how we're supposed to live our lives. Sorry... that slipped out.

But the truth is, the only time anything like this ever even comes up is if one of my kids is trying to describe a friend at school or is trying to point someone out they know in a crowd, and they'll end up saying... "The girl over there with the darker skin and the curly hair." (for example) And that is perfectly fine by me. The only way we move forward is to move on.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2019, 01:01:06 AM by WengerTodd »

Sam

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Hi Folks,

I never thought growing up in Virginia for high school and college as a minority would build some street cred. But if the Governor and Attorney General were wearing blackface, you know racism was pretty prevalent throughout Virginia in the 80s and 90s.

I just thought as a 14-22 year old that that's just how things were in America. It was all I knew. Before then, I grew up in multiple countries overseas given my parents were in the foreign service. I just had to gut through it all - the bullying, the fighting, the name calling, etc.


I grew up in the 1980s in Richmond, Virginia, and through the 90s in Northern Virginia. I cannot ever remember experiencing or seeing any racism. Race was never a thing for me as a kid, it was never anything my parents discussed, or even talked about. I cannot think of a single time in my life living in Virginia that race was ever a thing. In Richmond, we were average middle class, and all the kids in the neighborhood played together. Same as on the playground.

When I grew up in the 90s in Northern Virginia, it was high school, and race wasn't a thing either. But, being that it was high school, everyone segregated each other based on clicks. There were those of us who did sports, the academics, then you had the Goths... who were generally all white kids who painted themselves with snow-white face paint, had black lipstick and nail-polish, and dressed in all black. We even had a group of kids who we called "Jerry's Kids" because they wore huge Mexican parkas, wore sandals, and bell-bottom pants, had long hair, and listed to Grateful Dead. There were the Orc-Dorks, and Band-Geeks, and then there were those kids who played Magic the Gathering that would hide under the stairwells during recess, and then generally the popular kids, and then some other smaller cliques. Generally speaking though, it wasn't based on race... because the Orc-Dorks consisted of every race, as did the sports crowd, and the computer club, and all the others.

I was part of the sports crowd (was REALLY good at track & field), but also the Orc Dorks. I really do wonder though if the whole Goth crowd is still a thing in schools?

EDIT: Wanted to say, I raise my children without using "race" as a term. As a matter of fact, until they addressed it in 5th grade, my kids had no idea this was even a concept because I'd never talked to them about it. ... and why should I? What is the point?

I always get a kick out of entitled middle class white Millennials flogging themselves at every opportunity to pacify a new victim group they themselves have created as they tell the rest of us how we're supposed to live our lives. Sorry... that slipped out.

But the truth is, the only time anything like this ever even comes up is if one of my kids is trying to describe a friend at school or is trying to point someone out they know in a crowd, and they'll end up saying... "The girl over there with the darker skin and the curly hair." (for example) And that is perfectly fine by me. The only way we move forward is to move on.

Good feedback? What race are you? I have yet to meet a minority in America who didn't experience some type of racism. So perhaps you will be the first!
Regards,

Sam

WengerTodd

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Hi Folks,

I never thought growing up in Virginia for high school and college as a minority would build some street cred. But if the Governor and Attorney General were wearing blackface, you know racism was pretty prevalent throughout Virginia in the 80s and 90s.

I just thought as a 14-22 year old that that's just how things were in America. It was all I knew. Before then, I grew up in multiple countries overseas given my parents were in the foreign service. I just had to gut through it all - the bullying, the fighting, the name calling, etc.


I grew up in the 1980s in Richmond, Virginia, and through the 90s in Northern Virginia. I cannot ever remember experiencing or seeing any racism. Race was never a thing for me as a kid, it was never anything my parents discussed, or even talked about. I cannot think of a single time in my life living in Virginia that race was ever a thing. In Richmond, we were average middle class, and all the kids in the neighborhood played together. Same as on the playground.

When I grew up in the 90s in Northern Virginia, it was high school, and race wasn't a thing either. But, being that it was high school, everyone segregated each other based on clicks. There were those of us who did sports, the academics, then you had the Goths... who were generally all white kids who painted themselves with snow-white face paint, had black lipstick and nail-polish, and dressed in all black. We even had a group of kids who we called "Jerry's Kids" because they wore huge Mexican parkas, wore sandals, and bell-bottom pants, had long hair, and listed to Grateful Dead. There were the Orc-Dorks, and Band-Geeks, and then there were those kids who played Magic the Gathering that would hide under the stairwells during recess, and then generally the popular kids, and then some other smaller cliques. Generally speaking though, it wasn't based on race... because the Orc-Dorks consisted of every race, as did the sports crowd, and the computer club, and all the others.

I was part of the sports crowd (was REALLY good at track & field), but also the Orc Dorks. I really do wonder though if the whole Goth crowd is still a thing in schools?

EDIT: Wanted to say, I raise my children without using "race" as a term. As a matter of fact, until they addressed it in 5th grade, my kids had no idea this was even a concept because I'd never talked to them about it. ... and why should I? What is the point?

I always get a kick out of entitled middle class white Millennials flogging themselves at every opportunity to pacify a new victim group they themselves have created as they tell the rest of us how we're supposed to live our lives. Sorry... that slipped out.

But the truth is, the only time anything like this ever even comes up is if one of my kids is trying to describe a friend at school or is trying to point someone out they know in a crowd, and they'll end up saying... "The girl over there with the darker skin and the curly hair." (for example) And that is perfectly fine by me. The only way we move forward is to move on.

Good feedback? What race are you? I have yet to meet a minority in America who didn't experience some type of racism. So perhaps you will be the first!

I'm Hispanic, but of the South American / white variety, and not the Central American / Native American variety.

Sam

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Hi Folks,

I never thought growing up in Virginia for high school and college as a minority would build some street cred. But if the Governor and Attorney General were wearing blackface, you know racism was pretty prevalent throughout Virginia in the 80s and 90s.

I just thought as a 14-22 year old that that's just how things were in America. It was all I knew. Before then, I grew up in multiple countries overseas given my parents were in the foreign service. I just had to gut through it all - the bullying, the fighting, the name calling, etc.


I grew up in the 1980s in Richmond, Virginia, and through the 90s in Northern Virginia. I cannot ever remember experiencing or seeing any racism. Race was never a thing for me as a kid, it was never anything my parents discussed, or even talked about. I cannot think of a single time in my life living in Virginia that race was ever a thing. In Richmond, we were average middle class, and all the kids in the neighborhood played together. Same as on the playground.

When I grew up in the 90s in Northern Virginia, it was high school, and race wasn't a thing either. But, being that it was high school, everyone segregated each other based on clicks. There were those of us who did sports, the academics, then you had the Goths... who were generally all white kids who painted themselves with snow-white face paint, had black lipstick and nail-polish, and dressed in all black. We even had a group of kids who we called "Jerry's Kids" because they wore huge Mexican parkas, wore sandals, and bell-bottom pants, had long hair, and listed to Grateful Dead. There were the Orc-Dorks, and Band-Geeks, and then there were those kids who played Magic the Gathering that would hide under the stairwells during recess, and then generally the popular kids, and then some other smaller cliques. Generally speaking though, it wasn't based on race... because the Orc-Dorks consisted of every race, as did the sports crowd, and the computer club, and all the others.

I was part of the sports crowd (was REALLY good at track & field), but also the Orc Dorks. I really do wonder though if the whole Goth crowd is still a thing in schools?

EDIT: Wanted to say, I raise my children without using "race" as a term. As a matter of fact, until they addressed it in 5th grade, my kids had no idea this was even a concept because I'd never talked to them about it. ... and why should I? What is the point?

I always get a kick out of entitled middle class white Millennials flogging themselves at every opportunity to pacify a new victim group they themselves have created as they tell the rest of us how we're supposed to live our lives. Sorry... that slipped out.

But the truth is, the only time anything like this ever even comes up is if one of my kids is trying to describe a friend at school or is trying to point someone out they know in a crowd, and they'll end up saying... "The girl over there with the darker skin and the curly hair." (for example) And that is perfectly fine by me. The only way we move forward is to move on.

Good feedback? What race are you? I have yet to meet a minority in America who didn't experience some type of racism. So perhaps you will be the first!

I'm Hispanic, but of the South American / white variety, and not the Central American / Native American variety.

Does that mean you look white? If so, perhaps maybe that’s why you haven’t experienced racism?
Regards,

Sam

WengerTodd

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Does that mean you look white? If so, perhaps maybe that’s why you haven’t experienced racism?


So, I didn't see any racism in Virginia, but I have seen it in South Florida. It's pretty rampant. Native-born black Americans vehemently detest blacks from Haiti. I'm not sure why, but I've been told it's a class thing. Also, Hispanics from South America are generally very bigoted towards Central American Hispanics. I know this is definitely a class thing, unfortunately. If I could rant for a moment, it frustrates me to no end that most people in the United States think Hispanic means "Mexican." I've noticed this especially in California. It's like they have absolutely no idea there's an entire continent below Central America. If you were to poll the United States, 99.9% of respondents would probably say Hispanic means what they know to be Mexican (which is Native American). The population of South America is almost THREE TIMES that of Central America. I'd probably have to apologize here, my Hispanic roots come from Argentina, and generally speaking, Argentines believe they are superior to everyone, and the rest of South America hates them for it. I'm an American, so we're 100% clear, but just throwing that out there.

There's also heavy racism from the Thai population in South Florida. Generally speaking, the Thai believe that the darker your skin, the less desirable of a person you are. Their reasoning is, if your skin is darker, it means you're a laborer, and thus... again, it's a class thing. Most of the bigotry (which comes in the form of arrogance) comes from the more entitled, white, middle class progressive population. There is this belief that, in their infinite wisdom, they know what's best for all minority groups. The Chinese have a term for this called Baizuo, which means: "Hypocritical ignorant and arrogant westerner liberals who pity the rest of the world and think they are saviors, while having no sense of real problems in the real world."

So for example, these individuals are racist towards the Asian population. They believe it is their responsibility to regulate the number of successful Asians who are allowed to go to colleges, in favor of those who are of Hispanic and black heritages and races. Essentially, they consider Asians to be privileged, when really... most of them are not. Culturally, they just work harder because many of them come from dictatorship Governments and more-appreciate the opportunities they have the freedoms to work towards.

For me personally, the only racism I've experienced was when I was at American Thrift in Hialeah. A young African American girl ran up to me and said... "Your kind don't belong here!" and then stared at me for a minute. Shocked, I asked her what she just said... and she ran off. An elderly man who witnessed it told me he was sorry and that it was inappropriate.

All of these are the reasons why I don't even teach my kids any of this human failure. We have a very inclusive family. My wife is Jewish, I'm Catholic (of course... South America is 97% Catholic), and while Florida has its problems, South Florida is also the largest melting pot in the United States, it has the most number of different cultures (more so than even NYC now). I teach my children morals and ethics (as I stated above). I let them make their own decisions based on a moral code of "do unto others." About 6 months ago, my daughter was a flower girl at my cousin's wedding (lesbian couple). I said nothing about it, no "big talk," none of that. She was so happy to be the flower girl at their wedding, and the fact that they were both women wasn't even topic of discussion for her. It didn't even occur to her that this might be non-standard. Teaching my kids about racism doesn't solve anything, other than to create more Baizuo.



If I may make a couple of words of advice:

1 - I can't find the link to these forums on your main page. I've been a programmer for 20+ years, worked for some major corporations, and developed a lot of software for several companies of which you've been directly affected. If I cannot find the link to the forums (I found it in a Google search), then other people definitely cannot either. The link should be front and center at the top of your main page. I suspect most people find this from links in your blog, or through web search.

2 - It took 4 days before you finally approved my account. I survived, but the point is, when someone finds your forum, it's because they're searching for one. When it takes more than 1 day to approve an account, most people will have already solved their answer somewhere else already, and moved on. Since you read all the posts, you're obviously moderating posts. The only reason why you'd want to set up administrative approval is to prevent vendors and spam posters from coming in here and posting advertisements. This should be automated, and then remove the accounts you take issue with.

Both #1 and #2 are the reason why this forum doesn't have a lot of activity compared to the other financial forums out there (despite the fact that it's well organized). As a matter of fact, the only reason why I was able to get to it is because it's the only one that hasn't been blocked by my company's websense filter, because the hit-count is too low to be considered a valid "Forum/Message Board." But... I like the site, and I really hope it succeeds.