Author Topic: Disappointing post about MMM's divorce  (Read 15115 times)

therealme

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Disappointing post about MMM's divorce
« on: December 11, 2018, 06:06:21 AM »
Sam, I expected more from you.  I thought you were bigger than this.  You have disappointed me.

To use your blog to take jabs at another man while he is standing is one thing.  To criticize their book or their website is one thing.  To do so while he is going through one of the most difficult processes in one's life, a divorce, to kick a man while he is down is just cheap and low.

You created a post  -->  https://www.financialsamurai.com/mmm-divorce/  but then you did NOT open it for comments, which shows cowardice on your part.  The post is basically an expanded version of a post on this forum, which I bet you also created, edited (« Last Edit: December 05, 2018, 03:58:28 AM by Sam ») and then had the audacity to reply to yourself.  You put your entire brand at risk when you do this because it lacks integrity.

You have taken MMM's criticism of your Yakezie network very personal and you are now attacking his personal life, on something very delicate and personal as a divorce.   If anything, be the bigger person and focus on your brand and do not allow Pete's unfortunate divorce to take your attention away for one minute.

Lastly, you mock a fellow writer, you mock a man with a family, a son, just like you.   One day the son is going to read your post and wonder why would anyone write such harsh words about his father?   To mock MMM's post or his work or his product is one thing.  To mock him as a person while he is going through a divorce is another.   It's personal and there's a line that you just don't cross, a space that we have to protect.  I could despise you as a person, but if I see you walking with your son or your wife, I'd keep any comments to myself and just keep a straight face.

I urge you to please remove the "mmm-divorce" post and revise your comments on this forum.   You have a large readership, you've built the Financial Samurai brand from nothing.  That is admirable.   But just as you have done that, you can lose it all within a year with personal BS posts like these.

Please reflect on who you are and how you want your own child, your wife, your parents to think of you and to remember you.  Then think about Pete's child.  Please Sam Dogen, do the right thing.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2018, 08:34:26 PM by Sam »

Cheezus

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MMM is a public person with a huge following.  It makes perfect sense for things like this to be discussed.  I would maybe think MMM likes the post because it just provides even MORE publicity and traffic.  Think about that.

I like both sites.  This post by therealme is way, way overly sensitive and dramatic.  Clearly the MMM cult works, lol.  For his followers to go around acting so offended over a non-offensive blog post is proof of that.

therealme

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Cheezus, I also read both sites.  My post is not defending MMM, it's defending Sam Dogen because he is better than that.   You must admit that there's a little bit of a personal attack on the part of Sam.  You must also admit that a divorce is a highly personal and painful process, similar to a death in the family, it's something when people's privacy must be respected.

MMM is a blogger but at the end of the day he is a human being and deserves a little bit of respect.   Again, I think Financial Samurai has high standards and these posts, that 12-year old whining attitude are below him and he doesn't have to succumb to that.

Cheezus

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Cheezus, I also read both sites.  My post is not defending MMM, it's defending Sam Dogen because he is better than that.   You must admit that there's a little bit of a personal attack on the part of Sam.  You must also admit that a divorce is a highly personal and painful process, similar to a death in the family, it's something when people's privacy must be respected.

MMM is a blogger but at the end of the day he is a human being and deserves a little bit of respect.   Again, I think Financial Samurai has high standards and these posts, that 12-year old whining attitude are below him and he doesn't have to succumb to that.

I don't find Sam's blog disrespectful at all.  I don't agree with your assumptions that divorce is always highly personal, painful, or that there is some sort of privacy requirement.  Discussing the divorce of a very public person isn't exactly outrageous.  It's not like Sam is airing out dirty laundry or anything.  He's discussing it in context of the FIRE movement.  I think you are creating drama where none exists.

Sam

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Thanks for your thoughts TheRealMe. The first I heard about his divorce was here and on Twitter. I wrote the post as a page (not a post) as a personal reflection. I haven’t publicized it on social media, on my homepage, or in the forum.

I think it’s important to reflect on a serious issue. And I don’t see my personal reflection on how to improve a marriage as an attack at all.  Don’t you think if I wanted to attack, I would actually attack and be very be public about this reflection like you? How did you find the page anyway?

Pete has been open about his divorce in The Guardian interview and on Twitter. There's even a 600+ response comment thread on his Forum about his divorce (https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/off-topic/mmm-is-now-divorced-from-mrs-mm/). Are you saying I'm not allowed to reflect at year end about my marriage?

But I'll use this situation as a good opportunity to learn from you:

* What is your background? Did you also get a divorce or are related to him hence the sensitivity? It's important you share your background otherwise we have no idea where you are coming from.
* What are your reasons why I shouldn't reflect on my marriage when he's open about his divorce and has a huge thread on his forum about his divorce?
* Please highlight specific sentences in my page where I'm attacking him and how that in turn feels like it is attacking you
* What are some parts of the page that I can make better, and how should I re-write it to make you happy?
* Any marriage tips you can offer?
* Is it possible you are projecting your disappointment that Pete got divorced to me and my reflection?

I'll look into seeing if pages can have comments too, but I'm not sure how to do it. If you have an expertise on Wordpress, let me know b/c I don't see an option to adding comments on pages for some reason.

Thanks

PS: I often edit my comments for typos and clarity. I hope that is OK with you. I notice that it says your comment was edited as well by me, but I think you can tell there was no edit at all. Not sure what's going on.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2018, 03:20:38 PM by Sam »
Regards,

Sam

PandaAtlanta

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Re: Please Sam, do the right thing. Disappointing post about MMM's divorce
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2018, 04:39:28 PM »
I don't know who Mr. Money Mustache is, but I did get a chance to read the "Mr. Money Mustache (MMM) Divorce: How To Protect A Marriage" blog post.

Regarding why MMM bashed Sam's Yakezie Network at Fincon Denver in 2013, we have the understand the motivation of that person. Perhaps MMM was threatened by Sam as he saw him as a direct competitor five years ago.

What is most important is who Sam is and his character. I've been reading Financial Samurai for almost 5 years, and what impresses me about Sam is his humble nature and his character. He is also extremely talented in his area of core competence of Personal Finance. Whenever I see jealous trolls attack him, I never see him respond with the same disrespect. He is always courteous trying to understand their point of view.

His comments of not being in the spot light, his desire to be a good father, a good husband really resonates with me. I don't think success for Sam is all about having fame, a seven figure business, or reaching a $300,000 passive income. Being a successful a father, a husband, a family man is more important to him. Sam is the real deal. More than his financial knowledge, it is character and who he is which is why I continue to come back to his site.

I am 41 years old and here are some of the best books I have read in marriage that I wanted to pass on to the younger married men in their 20s and 30s on Financial Samurai.

- Panda


1. Love and Respect - Dr. Emerson Eggerichs

2. The seven principles for Making Marriage Work - John Gottman

3. Sacred Marriage - Gary Thomas

4. The Love Dare - Stephen Kendrick

5. His Needs, Her Needs - Willard F. Harley

6. You and me forever - Francis Chan

   
« Last Edit: December 12, 2018, 10:25:11 AM by PandaAtlanta »
Regards,
Panda

Sam

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Re: Please Sam, do the right thing. Disappointing post about MMM's divorce
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2018, 04:53:08 PM »
Panda, appreciate your thoughts and book recommendations. Anybody who is married with kids knows that being a parent and keeping a marriage alive and well needs constant work. I know I’ve got a lot of faults to improve, hence my article.

The attack on the Yakezie was disappointing bc I was helping out his site on the map as a new site in the blogosphere. But it is what it is. I totally forgot about the incident until his divorce brought back memories.
Regards,

Sam

sfpf

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Re: Please Sam, do the right thing. Disappointing post about MMM's divorce
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2018, 05:25:25 PM »
I just read the post linked above. I don’t see how that is offensive in any way but some folks are hyper sensitive I guess. I think it’s healthy to reflect on occasion, especially at year end. The way Sam wrote about it is very professional in my opinion.

@therealme, perhaps there's something going on in your own life that has caused what you read to strike a nerve given MMM's divorce is public knowledge? When I'm upset about something in my personal life I tend to be extra sensitive.


therealme

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Re: Please Sam, do the right thing. Disappointing post about MMM's divorce
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2018, 06:30:14 AM »
Yes, there's something going on in my own life or about to go on in my life that has made me sensitive to divorce and privacy issues.

Here are two parts of Sam's post that I thought went a little extra and got personal.  You wrote

"I was surprised to hear the bad news because MMM has consistently been writing about how he’s been living a life of intention and purpose. If you’re living a purposeful life, one would think you would also be happy with your family situation"

You could have written this differently.  In essence you are saying, MMM is so high and mighty, how could he possibly be getting a divorce?   I detected a little bit of mocking and condescension on your part towards Pete.  You could have used Pete's divorce to start the post and then elaborate on avoiding divorce in general.  The advice that you give at the end of your post was great.

Second Instance: 

There's a heading on your article called "Plans For Avoiding A MMM Divorce".  You could have just said for avoiding a divorce.  Why throw MMM into the mix once again?

By the way, I support you in that Pete was wrong in criticizing the Yakezie Network at Fincon Denver in 2013, the way he did.   I think that this is the other part that rubbed me the wrong way.  That you used one post to point out that Pete was not very nice to you and on the same post, you got up close and personal into his divorce.   Perhaps two separate articles would have been the way to go.

And Sam, if it's on your website and it has a public hyperlink into it, it's an article, it's a post, it's a reflection.   You can call it what you like, but it's a post nonetheless and represents you and your brand.

I reiterate and with this I close, I truly like you and respect you as a writer and as a human being.  You put a lot of your own personal things on the site and that has helped me connect to your writings.   On the post you reflected on your marriage and that was great because Sam Dogen can write about Sam Dogen's marriage.   It was seeing you talk about another blogger that way that bothered me a little bit because I respect you and admire you so much.   Keep up the good work.

Cheezus

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Re: Please Sam, do the right thing. Disappointing post about MMM's divorce
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2018, 07:30:35 AM »
So Sam isn't allowed to talk about other bloggers?  Let's be real here, you write about things that get attention.  So weaving MMM in to a post makes sense.  In fact, it's LITERALLY why you are here.  And that is how blogs work...

Maybe it's just your naivety?  Having an understanding about the business aspect can certainly change the way you view the context.

Sams comment about MMM writing his blog from the perspective of living a life of intention and purpose is not a cheap shot.  That's the entire slant of MMM blog.  Just read it.  It's all about "I figured it out, I'm living perfectly, here's how" an that's what drives people to him.  So to learn about something that is not so perfect makes you reflect and on it, as Sam did.  It's a great topic to discuss, actually.  It's not offensive at all.

Sam

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Re: Please Sam, do the right thing. Disappointing post about MMM's divorce
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2018, 08:50:40 AM »
"Yes, there's something going on in my own life or about to go on in my life that has made me sensitive to divorce and privacy issues."

Sorry you're going through some turbulence. Hope it gets better.

I know it's easy to treat me as a punching bag because I put myself out there, but may I suggest not calling me or other people names if you have personal issues you're dealing with? Address the issues head on instead.

Your suggestions have been noted.

Thanks
Regards,

Sam

RandyP

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Re: Please Sam, do the right thing. Disappointing post about MMM's divorce
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2018, 02:38:20 PM »
Is "therealme" Pete?

mbb_boy

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Re: Please Sam, do the right thing. Disappointing post about MMM's divorce
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2018, 07:24:31 AM »
Wow. Surprised to see someone so butthurt over what Sam wrote. Not an attack in any way, shape or form.

Some people are addicted to outrage

therealme

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Re: Please Sam, do the right thing. Disappointing post about MMM's divorce
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2018, 09:30:42 AM »
Sam, I'm not "treating you as a punching bag because you put yourself out there", I'm calling you out because what you wrote about another person did not match the tone, the integrity, and the kindness that characterizes every one of your posts.

Also, I never "called you or other people names" I mainly "called you out" on it so you can put a mirror to yourself and say, could I have written this post differently?  Did I have to say those things about Pete to make the points I wanted to on my post?

I've already moved on.  I realize now I should have written directly to you and not involved others on the forum.   You may delete this post altogether.   I'm sorry I wasted your time and that of others.

PandaAtlanta

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Re: Please Sam, do the right thing. Disappointing post about MMM's divorce
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2018, 04:59:48 PM »
realme,

None of us are perfect. Neither you, I, or even Sam. If you reread his MMM post that Sam wrote, there is a lot great marriage wisdom on the "here are some of the things I plan to do to help keep my marriage intact." If you want great things in life, you have to work at it, and that includes your marriage. So many of us may be so focused on building our networth, passive income, and our businesses that our marriage may suffer in the process. Personally, If reach a networth of $10M, own a 7 figure business, and a $300k passive income at the cost of losing my wife and my kids, and my health, I wouldn't consider that success. I would call that failure. Real Wealth is not just about reaching a networth number, but being also rich spiritually, emotionally, and physically.

I am no marriage expert, but I've been married for 13 years. We argue and disagree at times like any other married couples, but there is no question that both of us respect and love each other. If you are struggling in this area and need someone to talk to you, you can always PM me.

God bless,
-Panda
Regards,
Panda

Nigel

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Re: Disappointing post about MMM's divorce
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2018, 10:39:46 AM »
I don’t care much for MMM because there is a level of arrogance on the MMM forums that annoys me.  The blogger sets the tone for his or her community and it’s just too tiresome for me to bother separating the wheat from the chaff.

I read Sams post and I was surprised that Sam has been at this longer than MMM because of the relative notoriety of the two sites.  That’s a positive and not a negative to me.

There was nothing wrong in Sam’s post that I could see.  If it were my post there would have been more than a little gloating when life punched him in the face with reality and I didn’t get that vibe.  Folks doing a lean FIRE without a lot of margin for error would likely suffer far more than folks doing a fat FIRE in a divorce.  A divorce in a Fat FIRE might turn it forcibly into a lean FIRE for both.  A lean FIRE divorce likely results in two individuals that were no longer FI.

I kinda think $5M is overkill for FI but $2.5M remains comfortable if you halve that.  Someone with $800K and a frugal lifestyle to start is already cut close to the bone.  I can easily take Sam’s $200K family budget and slash significantly without a lot of compromises in lifestyle...

Sam

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Re: Disappointing post about MMM's divorce
« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2018, 08:40:52 AM »
Nigel - I wonder how many more folks are surprised that FS has been around 3 years longer than MMM writing about FIRE. Perhaps this is an opportunity?

I just really don't like the spotlight and all the self-promotion (https://www.financialsamurai.com/be-rich-not-famous/). Also, as a minority who lives in expensive San Francisco, I don't think by definition, as many people will relate, even if half the US population lives on the expensive coasts.

I've always thought that it would be nice to diversify the FIRE movement.
Regards,

Sam

Derrick

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Re: Disappointing post about MMM's divorce
« Reply #17 on: December 23, 2018, 04:57:47 PM »
Divorce is tough, especially when you are a "public" person that is internet famous.  Everyone likes to throw it 2 cents.  Unfortunately, I think that is part of the gig.  I hope MMM and his family are able to sort things out and heal as much as possible during an obviously stressful and trying time.
My Youtube Channel:
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Nigel

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Re: Disappointing post about MMM's divorce
« Reply #18 on: December 23, 2018, 05:25:18 PM »
Nigel - I wonder how many more folks are surprised that FS has been around 3 years longer than MMM writing about FIRE. Perhaps this is an opportunity?

I just really don't like the spotlight and all the self-promotion (https://www.financialsamurai.com/be-rich-not-famous/). Also, as a minority who lives in expensive San Francisco, I don't think by definition, as many people will relate, even if half the US population lives on the expensive coasts.

I've always thought that it would be nice to diversify the FIRE movement.

If you don’t like spotlight and self promotion then don’t...even if cultists are easier to monetize.

To me the biggest risk of a self inflicted wound for you is to alter something you enjoy (presumably FS) into something that’s a strain on your personality...just to chase a few more clicks.  Probably more remunerative and enjoyable to find that consulting gig you’re looking at.

Or if things feel a little stale and you want to change things up that’s cool too.  The forums don’t have critical mass yet so there’s room to grow there...I might change things so that the blog post comments are forum threads.

As far as minority goes, it’s likely marketable niche if you want to play that angle.  The demographic probably trends higher on the income side.

RageCage

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Re: Disappointing post about MMM's divorce
« Reply #19 on: December 23, 2018, 06:29:36 PM »
<<I might change things so that the blog post comments are forum threads.>>

Elegant solution which shouldn't disrupt anyone's "habit" but would also consolidate the competing areas.  I second the motion!