Tenacity And Faith – Do You Have It?

Stone HengeI’m not sure if it’s by coincidence or because I’m spending more time listening, but I’ve noticed more people sharing with me how they lost a lot during the 2008-2010 financial crisis, and how they’re doing everything possible to get back on track.

I was at Bed, Bath & Beyond the other day when I met a sales clerk in the home decor section. He was probably around 65-70 years old with withered skin and dark patches all over his arms and head. He looked quite ill and smelled like he had been hitting the bottle the night before. His name was “Bob” and he was full of smiles as he sought to help me find the perfect barstool.

I selected a set of four handsome barstools from the choices he showed me for my kitchen. I didn’t have the famous 20% off coupon BBB sends in the mail, but Bob gave me a wink and told me, “I got you, don’t worry.”

He asked me whether I had recently bought a new home, and I told him that I did. “I finally found that room with a view I’ve been searching for all this time,” I replied.

“I used to have a view, but then I lost my business of 20 years and then I lost my partner. It was just me in this old house for a couple years until I realized I could no longer afford the rent, so I moved. I have a small place now with the view of the street and another apartment’s window, but it will do,” Bob lamented.

I gave Bob my condolences and tried to cheer him up by continuing on the conversation, “Hopefully your new place is comfortable and at least much cheaper yeah?”

“Oh, yes, much cheaper,” Bob responded with a smile. “I miss the view, but I’m just thankful to have found an affordable place to live in the city.”

To lose money is one thing. I did that spectacularly well during the downturn. To lose love and money at the same time is unbearable.

But Bob showed an incredibly positive attitude during our time together, and he made me a very happy customer that evening. I even ended up doing some research on BBB and bought some of their stock. Fingers crossed their debt offering will help their financials and they can compete effectively with the likes of Amazon and other online retailers.

Maybe all Bob wanted was for someone to listen to his sorrows. Unless we die first, we might also one day end up alone. 

ONE MORE STORY ABOUT HOPE

When I got home that evening I stumbled upon this great comment from a new reader on my post, “How To Save More For Retirement If You Don’t Make Much Money“. There’s a mix of positive and negative commentary in the 190+ comment count. But the comment by Jim really stood out.

Hi Sam,

I found your site by accident while surfing at 3:00 am (not sleeping because of a toothache); and while reading your followers’ replies, I zeroed in on Jack R’s reply of February 13, 2014. I, too, have the same story to tell… But my desire is that it will be looked at [by your readers] as a story about ‘hope and what happens, when you never give up’.

I will be 64 in November of 2014 and here’s my story:

Back in our ‘Economic Abyssal Plunge of 2008′, I lost everything, and I mean everything. My business, house, car, life savings, credit rating – all gone. The only four things I had left, were… My faith in God, my beloved wife of 30+ years, my dignity and my refusal to give up (So I was still rich!).

The last 6 years have been the rockiest road in my life… unemployment for almost 3 years, my wife being so seriously ill (twice), she almost died both times and also having to move our lives from Southern New Mexico to Northern Colorado, after having originally moved from the North East.

I never thought at 61, that I was even remotely employable. BUT, faith and tenacity reigns! I sent out over 400 resumes and filled out countless applications, looking for almost any kind of work and anyone that would hire me. By grace, I wound up being employed with a large healthcare organization, all based on (are you ready for this?) my experience in the U.S. Army over 40+ years ago?!

With my current job, I have gone full circle in my business career; I started out on the front line, eventually went into management, then stepped outside corporate, became self-employed,owning 2 businesses for over 20 years (broker/builder)… And now, here I am close to retirement, working on the front line again, this time in healthcare (I work in the ER of our local hospital). My sweet wife also works for the same organization too!

With the huge medical bills almost gone, we have been able to put money into our 401K’s and are maximizing our 403b’s. No, we will not have much money to work with in the end, but we won’t be on the street either. I plan on working until I’m 67 or 68, because I’m in good health (Social Security will be deferred until then & both our monthly SS checks will be of decent amounts)… I even have plans to eventually start up a special wood crafting design business with my much younger brother in law.

The moral of this little story… Don’t ever stop trying, because it is NEVER too late. Have faith in a higher power and yourself, love your spouse and your family… don’t ever stop looking for the best job possible (one that make you happy), save or invest what you can, when you can… and don’t ever, ever stop having fun in life!

I know this is on the long side and it’s not all about personal finance but it IS a true story; and like you, I also like to write! Thank you for allowing me to share it with your readers… It hope it inspires someone who might be on the ‘edge’ like I was!

Best wishes for continued success to you and your readers!

Jim

I strongly believe the comments we write are a small reflection of who we are. Angry and spiteful commentary come from those who are not happy with their lives for whatever reason. They take their anger out on others. Then there are comments like Jim’s where he takes his time to tell his story and reflect with others.

I’ve said this before, and I’ll say it again. Bad things happen all the time. Unfortunate events are the reason why we shouldn’t think we’re geniuses during a bull market. If all you’ve ever known is investing since the market started recovering in 2010, then forget about it. You have no idea. Consistently save and diversify your investments.

STICK WITH IT UNTIL THE END

I never in my wildest dreams imagined just writing online for a living by the age of 35. Never. And it’s not just getting by month-to-month either. I can actually afford a high-margin beverage other than water with my ramen noodles now. But when my ass was getting kicked at work, I would still come home and write for however long it took to get an article of reasonable quality done, three times a week without fail.

I’m sure Jim never thought he would have to start over in his 60s. I don’t think most of us think we’ll lose everything close to traditional retirement age either. But unfortunately some of us will. I am constantly asking myself the question, When will the good times end? I think you should ask yourself this question too, and plan for some lean years.

Part of planning for bad times is to get used to living off way less than you earn. Even if you take a 50% hit to your income, your lifestyle might not change one bit if you are used to saving 50% of your after-tax income, for example. Another part of planning for downturns is having a portion of your money in risk-free assets guaranteed by the FDIC. To gain more financial security, build financial buffers for your financial buffers.

Despite all the bad times, the great thing is that we are not doomed to failure unless we give up. There are people like Jim and Bob who have lost everything, yet still carry on. Maybe they will never make as much as before, but they’ve got the basic necessities and the faith that everything will be alright in the end.

Readers, was there ever a time when your faith was tested? Do you have the tenacity to keep on going during the toughest times? If half the battle is just sticking with something, why not just keep on going?

Thanks,

Sam

 

Sam started Financial Samurai in 2009 during the depths of the financial crisis as a way to make sense of chaos. After 13 years working on Wall Street, Sam decided to retire in 2012 to utilize everything he learned in business school to focus on online entrepreneurship.

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Comments

  1. says

    Great share, Sam! Until we’ve walked in another’s shoes, we never really know how it is. Some people have it worse than others. We have a daughter with mental health issues and one thing we learned from our parenting discussion groups, is that if we all put our child’s illness in the centre of the table and had to pick one to own, we would all take our own child’s illness back, not that of another child. I wonder if this also applies to financial struggles as well. It might be the factor of the devil you know versus the devil you don’t know. I do know that God gives us the fortitude to carry on.

    • says

      Hi Debs,

      Thanks for sharing your story and best to your family and your daughter. Mental health issues is a much deeper issue and more pervasive than I think many of us really realize. Perhaps you’d like to write a guest post one day on the subject here? I’m thinking about writing one too, as I think I’ve encountered many people with many issues, but I didn’t realize it at the time, and just thought they were being irrational. Instead, it was me who was not being aware.

      Sam

  2. Ace says

    Well Sam,

    I own a mortgage free home in the third largest metropolitan area of the United States……. So, I do feel relatively secure. It would take very little income to sustain me, or my family.

  3. says

    Great article! I read a lot of self help and self improvement books. One idea over and over is that how much money you have is not important, but who you are. The money will come if you have the right attitude and don’t give up. Many of the richest people in the world failed miserably for years or lost everything at some point.

    If you lose all your money, you still have you mind and the ideas that made you money in the first place. You can do it again and most likely faster and better the next time around due to what you have learned.

    I don’t plan on losing all my money, but you never know what will happen in the future. Saving and investing is key.

  4. Hiro says

    What a wonderful post Sam! Relatively to Bob and Jim I am very young, 31 year of age. I am going through the toughest moment of life to date but like you said I can lose anything and everything but HOPE and FAITH will carry me through time like this.

    Thanks for sharing and I am a big fan of your blog!

    • says

      No problem Hiro. If you’d ever like to share your difficulties through a post here, let me know. I know I’ve been able to deal with a lot of my frustrations, fears, and sadness through writing over the years. Best to you!

  5. says

    Ah this is beautiful. At the end of the day the satisfaction of life doesn’t come from money but from the habits and relationships we build over life. I feel like when I have conquered life over money instead of money over life then I have control of my life whether I am wealthy or poor. If satisfaction comes from money then we are going to be up and down constantly like the market.

    Challenges happen to everyone, there is no way to avoid it no matter what your income may be, but how will you react to it. Does your happiness depend on money? Once we master that, then life is beautiful, come what may. Doesn’t mean life is always easy, but we are emotionally in charge instead of our finances driving our emotions.

  6. says

    Thanks for highlighting Jim’s comment (and thanks to Jim for sharing his story!). My dad went through almost the exact same thing; he and Jim are the same age. I witnessed first-hand how horrible unemployment was for my dad. Unfortunately, he did not have Jim’s positive outlook on life. He tried applying to different jobs, and the few interviews he had were scams. He got discouraged pretty quickly after that. Thankfully, things worked out, and my parents were eventually able to retire to a less expensive state. They’re both much happier now, but those few years in-between were extremely tough. It definitely had an impact on how I plan to finance my future, and even when things seem hard, I know they’re not impossible.

    • says

      E.M, I’m happy things worked out for your parents. Seeing what your dad went through must be very motivating for you to do all you can to save and invest for your future.

      It also must be one of the hardest things for a father to lose his job and face his family. I’m not sure how I would be. I can understand how fathers might stay away and pretend to work after losing a job, like we’ve seen in some shows and movies.

  7. g says

    Just observing people around me imparts good lessons to me on the importance of saving and not giving up. It has alot with how one perceives life and their relationship with money. I have seen those who earn 100++K and still lack savings, always too absorbed in keeping up and ridiculing others. On another side , others who earn 70++K and still managed to have a good safety nest. It is all about attitude too.

    In 2005 I came to this country with nothing, sleeping on sofas just to save money on rent. I told myself things will change, but for me to be who I am tomorrow I need to change who and what I am doing today. Success is definitely a long term effort, goes the same for saving. Most times it is a lonely journey and one that must be taken with planning and perseverance. I cannot imagine what I would do if I lost it all, but yes the right attitude would save me just as your article suggests.

  8. says

    Sometimes, we need a reminder that we can overcome anything. I have had my ups and downs like everyone, but the things that are really important were always great like my wife and family. I find that my determination or tenacity gets me through all the difficult times. Some people refer to it as resilience!

  9. says

    That’s pretty tough. If I have a big setback like that, I’d probably make a huge change in my life. Maybe moving to a different country or something. I had some challenges when I felt stuck at work, but I was able to get out of that situation and I’m doing pretty well now.
    I don’t believe in giving up and we all have to carry on the best we can. I think most people are the same way.

  10. says

    I couldn’t help but think of the quote from one of my favorite movies: “Get busy living…or get busy dying.”

    It’s nice to see that these people didn’t just give up and have such positive stories to tell even in the face of nearly complete disaster. Thanks for sharing.

  11. S says

    Sam – don’t mean to pry into Jim’s personal life, but there is more to his story. How did he lose everything? He may have been overly leveraged, he may have doubled down, he may have had a gambling problem on top of the market issues, he may have had medical bills that ate up his savings. I’m curious as to how he lost it all. Most of us lost something back then, but those who kept the faith or who didn’t have to tap our nut have come out ahead in the past 6 years.

    If Jim doesn’t want to share that is fine, and I understand that isn’t the point of his story – all of which I agree with.

    Good for him, and good for all who keep a positive attitude.

  12. says

    Life does give you obstacles, sticking with it and staying positive while deemed as simple can be one of the hardest things to do during this time, hope Jim calls it a day and retires soon.

  13. Austin says

    Powerful reminder not to fear the unknown and that everything will be OK. I remember my parents trying to prepare us mentally for the possiblity of bankruptcy when we very young. It ultimately didn’t happen (thank God) but they would say things like “if we have to leave our house one day and only have one car we will still have each other”.

    Both of the people you discussed were self-employed. They appear to have faced the worst-case scenario that scares most away from self-employment and faced it well.

    I will say, though, that because so many have been forced to remain in the workforce longer it has really stunted younger generations. Unfortunate, but what can you do.

    • says

      Oh my, that sounds pretty intense Austin! I can’t imagine what your parents were going through then, and they are right.. .at least you guys would have each other. I say this often to my loved ones too during difficult times. Even if we were in a desert wasteland, at least we’d have each other.

      What gets me as the those who are self-employed take a lot of risk, yet it doesn’t seem like they can get unemployment. As someone who is self-employed now, I still pay FICA taxes, yet I’m not sure if everything went to hell whether I would be able to collect.

  14. Mysticaltyger says

    Thanks for that man’s inspirational story. I also liked the comment at the end about living on less than you earn. Real life story: I had my take home pay cut by about 12% a few years back (at a supposedly “secure” public sector job…some folks were also laid off)…but because I was saving more than 1/4 of my gross income, I was able to cut back on my lifestyle a bit so that I wouldn’t have to cut my retirement savings (My everyday cash savings have suffered, though). If you’re not living significantly below your means, you should consider yourself in trouble.

  15. local Joe says

    I wonder if “Bob” at BBB would like to be invited out for a cup of coffee and a sympathetic ear… and maybe a conversation….

  16. Marco says

    Sam, Jim and Bob – Thank you for this inspirational post. It reminds me how fragile life can be and how you you can never really know what’s going to happen in life. Also confirms that our most valuable asset is our state of mind which determines how we respond to life’s inevitable curve balls.

  17. BH says

    Great post. It’s good to hear each other’s stories. Jim’s story is a hard one since he faced his challenges pretty late in life. I hope things get better.
    I’ve learned a lot about faith and tenacity recently as well. Unfortunately I got married to the wrong person when I was only 20 (when bad boys were attractive and the pressure to marry young was high due to a religious upbringing). I stuck out a bad marriage for almost 10 years and one child – the divorce itself cost me about 8% of my current net worth in attorney’s fees on top of a significant amount of debt that he incurred in my name on a credit card that I didn’t know about. I had to sell my primary residence to pay off the debt and attorney’s fees (even though my attorney’s fees were awarded to me, he will never pay them). I was awarded child support, which he’s never paid. I lost almost all of my discretionary income as a result of the situation I’m now in: – after paying for preschool, nanny, rent, maxing out my 401k/HSA and contributing to a 529 plan, I’m lucky to save 10% of my W-2 income each month (where I previously saved over 50% of my net W-2 income). I did get to keep my retirement savings, my child’s 529 Plan and some other investments. The whole process, from too many years spent in an unhappy marriage to the hell that is a divorce was miserable. But things got better! Shortly after all this happened, I ended up with an amazing, interesting and less stressful new job in my favorite city. I feel grateful for getting a second chance. I’m happier than I’ve been since college, notwithstanding some of the ongoing challenges that I face as a single parent. I’ve been able to pursue things I love in my free time, which I never had time for previously because I was either working all the time at a grinding job or stressed all the time over a miserable relationship. My little one is in an awesome preschool and we have a wonderful nanny who lives with us. Life is not where I expected it to be – but with tenacity and faith (good choice of words), things got much, much better than they were before or would be now if I didn’t finally muster up the courage to move on. Blue skies ahead.

    • says

      Awesome! I’m glad things are looking better now!

      I have been toying around with this post title for a while, “Would You Still Get Married If You KNEW You’d Be Divorced In 10 Years?”

      The post talks about love and loss and what comes out of it. I’m sure you love your child to no end and wouldn’t trade him/her for anything, despite the bad divorce no?

      Nobody gets into a relationship thinking they’ll break up, yet 50%+ do. I’d love to get your thoughts.

  18. Mike H says

    I think the point of life is that the future is unknown. Also everybody in life has hardships they must learn to bear.

    Creating good habits in life are essential. This includes creating the habits to take care of your body, your mind, your relationships and your finances.

    It is said: “Sow a thought, reap a word. Sow a word, reap an action. Sow an action, reap a habit. Sow a habit, reap a character”.

    All so called wealth we have been able to create in this life came from our interactions with others, and we still possess this capability. No doubt we will all face major changes in our lives as the world gets more populated, more interconnected, and we face the hard limits on the resources available to all of us. Continuous learning, adaptation and having a good mental outlook in the face of adversity are the keys for us to do well. It sounds like Bob has incorporated some of this in his life.

    -Mike

  19. says

    Great post, Sam. I’ve certainly dealt with struggles over the past couple of years – mental illness, suicide of a close friend, etc., but I’ve never felt like I’ve lost everything. It’s amazing how some of the things I talked about in therapy are still relevant every day. I’ve spent so much more time lately feeling grateful, feeling loved, and being satisfied. Blogging has been incredibly eye opening. Getting control of my finances has given me the freedom to escape from an unsustainable working lifestyle. For that, I will be forever thankful.

  20. says

    blimey. Well – that post just hit home. I’m in Australia – where most people were not hit as badly in the GFC – after 20 years of being stuck in low income jobs and a poor real estate investment, I overhauled the lot – moved cities, changed jobs, sold the property, started again. Then in 2008 stuck borrowed money in the sharemarket and within months watched that crash – but was left with the repayments. So this time I am trying setting up my own online business – as a side hustle to the job I have – but I am so full of fear – (nothing will sell, I’ll lose all money again, – and that means I am having trouble committing to the project and getting it done. I am about a month behind on launch and my intellect tells me to GO.
    This post just freaked me out – I am not alone, I am doing what I am meant to be doing, and no govt is going to look after my retirement so I’d better get my skates on.
    Thanks for the prompt – and the confession space!

    • says

      You are definitely not alone! There is the simple saying, “Don’t let perfect be the enemy of the good (or good enough).”

      Gotta go for it mate! And once it is launched, make it better w/ feedback.

  21. says

    Hi Sam,

    First post here. This article hit home for me and puts my story in perspective a bit. I figured I had to tell mine too especially after reading one commenter write “get busy living or get busy dying.” That’s been my mantra for years.

    I was always a good student, got excellent grades growing up. Went to college with no real set plan on what to be, but that’s usually where we figure it out, right? I finished with an urban planning degree and figured it was best to go right to grad school to stand out when I got in the workforce, and so I’d start making better money coming out.

    I fell in love with a girl in college but it didn’t last long because she was 3 years younger and just starting college when I was finishing up. Well 2 years later I was finishing grad school and started talking with her again, eventually picking up where we left off. Everything seemed like it was going to plan.

    Except this was 2008. Every planning and architecture firm was laying people off by the boat load. There were no jobs. I was working unpaid internships while still playing poker (how I got through school) to get by. Several months went by and I was getting anxious while my girlfriend was concerned about our future. I took a job with an online poker training company so I had something at least. But it wasn’t good enough. And I got comfortable. I lost my tenacity along the way.

    She broke up with me in 2009 which was devastating. I was at rock bottom. Lost the love of my life, no solid job prospects and almost $60k in student loan debt. I was in a major hole.

    Once I came to, months later, I took a side job leasing apartments. I took a sabbatical to Thailand for three months which helped put things in perspective and to make myself a better man. I got in shape, started getting my life together and got my broker’s license. Get busy living or get busy dying.

    It was a struggle for years but now my real estate career is starting to take off. I’m paying off those student loans rapidly and even reunited with that same girl. The funny thing is, despite all the changes I made, she still doesn’t think we would work together. Hard to swallow, but I’m more confident now and will keep pushing forward. I made these changes for me but for her too – I guess I should keep focusing on me.

    I still struggle with my past day to day and worry about my finances (probably why I’m writing this at 4:30am), but all we can do is keep moving forward. I’m planning to build a huge real estate career here in Chicago and work on some side hustles for that extra passive income. Your blog has been a help, keep doing what you do!

  22. Mike H says

    As for tenacity and faith I have both in large quantities… that is what got me through turning around our business in 2008 – 2009 as it was bleeding through every pore when I first took over. I remember negotiating a 20k signing bonus and telling my boss that if I left voluntarily within the first year I’d pay it back. So I used that to mobilize myself and push every day. That first year was so hard, I had to cut 75% of the work force, including letting a few people go on Christmas Day, plus fixing all sorts of issues. In hindsight most all of the jobs where I have earned good money involved a lot of tenacity and faith… we all have much more of these then we think we have and you only find that out through exercising this regularly!

      • Mike H says

        Here in Thailand everybody works on Xmas day and on this particular year the Board wanted the cuts to be on the last day of the week prior to the New Year…. it was tough but everyone who was impacted got a great severance and they were generally agreeable, all things considered.

        That was a tough period for sure and one I look forward to not go through in the future.

        -Mike

  23. says

    Great share, Sam! I just wrote a post about how I just came to the conclusion that my college degree is all but worthless. Having spent 6 months after graduation unemployed, and not being able to find a solid job in finance since, all I have left is faith and tenacity. It may take a little longer, but I’ll get to where I want to be eventually. There’s no need to be a victim.

  24. nbsdmp says

    Another great post and hopefully one that the younger readers take to heart with the lessons it has buried within about starting to save early and often so you are not starting over in your 60’s. I am a firm believer that you can throw a person with will power, a little bit of smarts, and a lot of tenacity into most any situation and they will come out fine…(well maybe anything but like being a starting QB in the NFL). Seriously though, I joke to people often when they ask how I got to where I am today, and I tell them…honestly if I was just a little bit smarter I would have given up about 2 years into turning around the business we bought, it took a total of 5 to get things on the right path and start making any amount of money. Looking back the journey was the fun part and I’m sure if forced to do it again, I’d figure out it cause I’m definitely not any smarter that I was 17 years ago!

  25. JayCeezy says

    “Hey, Bed Bath & Beyond, don’t call it a ‘throw pillow’ and then act like I’m the one who did something wrong!” – Jim Gaffigan

    Great post. Both Bob and Jim are in the middle of a struggle, and I completely admire their approach and hope (tenacity and faith!). And confess I am not sure I could muster up their will and dignity. Both of them are in vocations where they have to deal with people, and not always under pleasant circumstances. Will be keeping good thoughts for them both, and be a little more aware of those I encounter every day and the struggles they may face.

    • says

      I thought you would muster up that will and dignity Jay!

      I for one would work at In N’ Out burger and be the best damn burger flipper around while stuffing my face breakfast, lunch, and dinner on double doubles with animal cheese fries!

      • JayCeezy says

        “People that have a positive attitude just don’t have enough information.” – Lily Tomlin

        FS you are right, as usual, and I have no doubt that you and other posters would rock that grill like a boss. Just wanted to give my full respect to both Bob and Jim (and BH, Austin’s parents, the Anonymous post at 6:01am 8/9, and others who faced down loss). As Steve noted below, those positive thoughts are tough to conjure up and not everybody can rise again.

        I have recently embraced ‘Stoicism’ as a useful model for approaching challenges, through my brother, and the writings of Tim Ferriss; there is some overlap with Buddhism, which may interest you, FS. In particular, “impermanence, impermanence, impermanence”. Google ‘Stoic Flow Chart’ and you will be rewarded with a smile.:-)

  26. Steve says

    God damn it dude — best blog post you have ever written. There are financial struggles, physical health struggles, emotional health struggles… enough said. Positive thoughts are the foundation, and yes, at so many times are so very difficult to conjure up. Thank you for sharing anecdotes from these heroes.

  27. says

    Finance is my forte..my market and trust me I have seen both: financial and personal loss. Financial loss is nothing in front of personal loss; it is so insignificant that I hardly consider it! Bob wouldn’t have lamented ( and it wouldn’t have been a loss) if love was there. The problem is not with money, debt and loss, it is not with a big apartment or a small room; the problem is without human support and love. It is the law of nature, If Winter comes, Spring cannot be far behind and similarly, loss will be follow by profit someday. But the loss of love, values, hope, friendship and dignity cannot be retrieved. I think I got carried away, thanks for sharing a thoughtful post :)

  28. Anonymous says

    Yup, Hubby and I lost everything in the 2008 meltdown. We were, unfortunately, in a perfect storm—job loss in California, real estate market in smaller town where NO homes were selling, and over 50. We had just finished putting four kids through college with no debt, and I had just come through cancer still standing (and tons of medical bills.) We went through all our savings in those three years of no employment and underemployment.

    You can try to prepare for the worst, but it’s pretty glib advice sometimes to save that “emergency fund and 6 months of living expenses.” For people whose unemployment keeps on, the funds will eventually dry up. We lost our home and $200,000 equity. There were some tough times, but God was faithful. I don’t believe we will ever recover all that we lost in this life, but our treasures should be in heaven anyway, right?

  29. says

    What great uplifting stories – thanks for sharing. As for negative comments, I agree with you that such people must have something wrong with their lives that they must take out their anger on others.

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