Financial Samurai

The thing is that the current education systems do almost nothing to teach us about financial literacy. You can get good grades and spend more and get into debt, or you can get average grades, spend less and still get into debt. The whole education system needs to be overhauled but no governments seem to have the balls to do it.
Gordie´s last blog ..Short-Term Gains Are Shorter Term Than You Think.

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There are plenty of C students who are far from average income earners. My grades in High School or college have no relevant relation to my earnings or how I spend my money. I don’t think you can make a blanket generalization just based on the grades someone got, and certainly no real judgement just because they went to some unknown college. I would say it is just as likely that someone who attended a Grade A college with straight A’s is trying far harder than I am to keep up with the Jones’ and it costs a hell of a lot more for them to keep up.
Kyle C.´s last blog ..When You Fall Behind on Your Mortgage – Mindset of the Collector

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It makes you beg the question on the stats that a good majority of millionaires are highschool drop-outs. Look at Einstine – another great example of when someone didn’t think they would go far, and despite all odds, they “made it.” I think a lot of it stems from a person’s determination to do whatever they want to do. There may be some things stopping a person, for instance, me. I want to become a Veterinarian. In order to get into Vet school, I MUST keep my grades up, otherwise I won’t be able to attend school and then practice afterwards.

It is a fine line between what drives a person and what society can regulate. I agree with the thought that we don’t need to compare ourselves to others…I know I have a hard time with this, but I am constantly working on it, trying to tell myself that it is ok for me to drive a Ford Focus while neighbors on both sides have either a Porche or a Lexus in the driveway. My wife and I are trying to get out of debt right now, and one thing that we understand is that when we are out of debt, driving around in our beater cars that are paid off, the neighbors will still be making payments up to their eyeballs on their nice, shiney, new cars and house…oh, what a day that will be to get my wife a new Lexus…with cash instead of making payments. Here is to a disappearing FICO score <— where DOES it go when you have no debt anyway?

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Sorry to pile on. Good grades, often, but not always, mean that someone knows how to follow orders. They’re great employees. Lousy innovators.
Matt´s last blog ..Weekly Wisdom: Redistributing Wealth Wisdom

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Entitlement, lack of personal responsibility, and blaming others for things are at the core of the high consumer debt
20smoney´s last blog ..Welcome MaxBlogger Visitors

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I view life as a gift from a loving God. So I don’t feel that I “deserve” anything. I like nice stuff and fun experiences. When I get them, I feel that the proper attitude is one of gratitude, not entitlement.

I agree that those who work hard merit a reward for their efforts. But there are many cases where a person gifted with less intellect works harder for a “C” than the person gifted with greater intellect works in obtaining an “A.”

Those who have been given greater gifts have more of a responsibility to look out for those who were given smaller gifts, in my view. I believe that we all should be enjoying the nice stuff that comes to us. But I also believe that we should be looking out for others. When you begin thinking that the good stuff you have was “earned,” you start down a path that can lead you to feeling indifference toward those who have “earned” less. Just because they have less does not mean that they have earned less.

Rob
Rob Bennett´s last blog ..My E-Mail to Washington Post Columnist E.J. Dionne

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Agreed that people buy things that they can’t afford.

Interesting idea that GPA can be used as a requirement for purchases. Haha!
Mike´s last blog ..Monthly Money Weigh-In February 2010: +$29,382 (+$3,719)

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Grades are just a measure of your test taking skills. Mediocre students can do well on tests by cramming, memorizing or even cheating. I hate to generalize but certain students from certain parts of the world are much better at test taking. Does that mean everyone from those parts are more successful than the rest of us?
thriftygal´s last blog ..How to extend the life of your clothes

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C students are pretty lazy if you ask me. So no, C students are delusional to think that they deserve anything better than an average lifestyle.

I was a B student and I didn’t try as hard as I suld have, so I’m fine with the life bestowed upon me.

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I don’t get the whole GPA to Purchasing power discussion. Who gives a sh!t what someone got an exam (or series of exams) 10, 20 or 30 years ago?

Notwithstanding, “do you believe that a main reason for tremendous consumer debt is because there are delusional people who think they deserve more than they can really afford? ”

1,000,000%! You hit the nail on the head. I DON’T CARE WHAT YOU (well not you Sam, but others) IS FAIR – IF YOU DON’T MAKE ENOUGH MONEY YOU DON’T DESERVE A BENZ, FLAT SCREEN OR HIGH SPEED INTERNET!

Your inalienable rights have nothing to do with consumer goods.
Evan´s last blog ..Three Common Qualities of High Net Worth Individual’s Balance Sheets

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Do you believe that a main reason for tremendous consumer debt is because there are delusional people who think they deserve more than they can really afford? Sam, I understand the point you’re trying to make and yes, I think a large number of people wrongfully believe they are entitled to “luxury” items they had no business purchasing. I know couples whose combined income is less than mine yet they always have nicer cars, clothes, houses, etc. In some cases neither went to college and weren’t that great of students in high school either. Brings to mind the story of the ant and the grasshopper.

If people want all the fancy things in life, why don’t they just work harder in school, be the best employee, or invent something successful to accommodate their desires? Because that would make too much sense. I didn’t get a chance to finish my Motivational Monday post and will post it this evening, but I have to take a poke at the people who buy into “The Secret” garbage and are told they can make things happen if they and be rich beyond their wildest dreams if they just follow The Secret, which wasn’t really a secret to begin with. People don’t want to work harder, or smarter for that matter. They just want the easiest way to get rich, which is why our lottery coffers will always be full even in the midst of the deepest recession.

What GPA did you get in HS/College, and will you be justifying your spending habits in the discussion below? I worked my tail off in college and was an officer of my high school honor society, but I didn’t go to big schools either. Even if I did though I wouldn’t use that to justify my spending.
David @ MBA briefs´s last blog ..Do positions of power corrupt people or attract people who are already corrupt?

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I was a lazy “B” student. I remember in class one I got the highest grade in the class without trying hard, (I felt like a misfit) and I started wondering if everybody was just drifting by, so I started to drift by too. It didn’t help that certain family members reinforced my inaccurate belief…

So I don’t believe that grades should be the determining factor on what you can and can not purchase. I was a solid “B” student in high school and college but I’m going fine. I live within my means.

I got lucky though, I’ve always had an interest in finances. I was also fortunate enough to have read “The Millionaire Next Door” in my early 20s. That made me believe that it was possible to be financial independent. I still have a long long way to go, but I’m above average with me financial acumen (though you wouldn’t think so, the way “MON” is going “The Samurai Fund” :)).

I blame overspending primarily on 2 things:
1.) People don’t understand finances and need to before jumping into the financial pool. These people are more often than not very smart (look at smart bloggers like fabulouslybroke), but make bad decisions earlier in their young lives…
2.) TV and movies make everything have a happy ending. Plus seeing all the stars in all their glitter definitely doesn’t help either.

There are other reasons too, but this is enough from me…
Don@Moneyreasons´s last blog ..MoneyReasons Weekly Cache – 2010, Jan 31

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@Kyle C.
Sounds like you are justifying poor grades and a poor school Kyle. Just saying.

@Sal
The good majority of millionaires are NOT high school drop outs. See what the media does to people? The majority of millionaires worked harder than others and got better grades and went to better schools.

@admin
Got a 3.8 from a Top 25 university, and I did bust my butt compared to my peers. You make a good point regarding delusional people with poor grades from podunk U who think they deserve more. They don’t.

Too much entitlement mentality!
The Genius´s last blog ..Questions of governance

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With regards to people being unworthy, a similar argument said differently – it’s that the entitlement bar continues to be raised. People victimize themselves by self-entitling.

But successful individuals aren’t the cause for concern. Sure, my heroes include Richard Branson and the like, but that’s why all of us are on these blogs.

The primary culprits are those who contribute little to society yet reap unearthly rewards. How many American rappers had 3.5 GPAs? How many rappers make multiples of multiples of what I can only dream to make? This is why grades aren’t necessarily the best metric.

We briefly hinted at it before, but maybe we could collaborate on a post about how out-of-whack our reward/income system is. Similar to how the women’s movement called for “equal pay for equal work” – we could modify it to say “equal pay for equal contribution” to demonstrate how people should be compensated, based on their contribution to society.
FinEngr´s last blog ..What’s Wrong With “Green”

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Interesting discussion, as always — and notice no one’s falling for the ‘what was your GPA’ part of your question! (okay, I was an A student, but that doesn’t define who I am today, financially).

I don’t think there’s a correlation between grades and spending habits. I think it’s more closely tied to personality and the environment you’re raised in.
RainyDaySaver´s last blog ..Fix-It Friday: New Toilet Seat

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I think the connection between grades and weath tends to be exaggerated. People who got good grades in school are more likely to be comfortable, above average, upper middle class–what ever you want to call it. But attaining wealth is where the connection dulls.

In order to achieve wealth it takes more than academic brilliance. You have to have people skills, market sense, ability to anticipate, etc. Those are more akin to street smarts than book smarrts. You can get good grades and have all of that, but you could also be missing it.

On the question of consumer debt, I think people use debt to bridge the gap between where they think they should be and where they are, in much the same way we might use alcohol or drugs. There’s a society wide sense of entitlement that drives it. If you don’t have that sense of entitlement, you’re bucking the trend, which is something significant in itself.
Kevin@OutOfYourRut´s last blog ..Social Media – How Do You Find Friends and Followers?

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There’s plenty of “smart folks” who are up to their eyeballs in debt. Are they delusional? Could be.

My theory is that we all view our lifestyles through our socioeconomic lenses – so once we achieve a certain bracket we begin to look at others in that bracket and realize they have more money than us and so we get a sense of wanting to justify our spending to catch up to the ones we think are ahead of us.

I think it’s a common mindset that sets itself up in all people without regard to brains, work ethic, social status etc.

In a word – it’s greed!
Jason @ Redeeming Riches´s last blog ..Confessions of a “Receiving” Addict

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“To get people out of debt, we need to make people realize they are unworthy of the stuff they buy, even though they see their neighbors live it up.”

I’m not sure what disturbs me more – that sentence or the fact that you think owning a BMW and wearing Armani is an “A” lifestyle.

I was lucky enough to be born with book smarts so I didn’t work very hard to get A’s in high school and A’s & B’s in college. I knew a lot of folks that worked much harder than me and still got C’s or below. So should the judging standard be work ethic or just final results? How about we let people make their own choices and live with the consequences?

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@Kevin M
If someone gave you a Hyundai over a same class BMW you’d choose a Hyundai? I’m impressed. What do you do for a living?
The Genius´s last blog ..Questions of governance

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My opinion… I don’t think grades and income are related. I know plenty of people who buck the trend. I also don’t think that effort and income are directly correlated either – I know plenty of hardworking individuals who never have, or will, earn much.

So instead of focus on that, I think the issue is more what you hint at in the title: entitlement. Many people have been led to believe they can have anything they want, when they want it. And mainstream media is doing everything they can to promote that message (at the behest of their advertisers).

It’s not about living an “A” lifestyle or a “C” lifestyle, but living in the style which you are comfortable and can comfortably afford – whatever style that may be.
Patrick´s last blog ..Marginal Taxes and 2010 Federal Income Tax Brackets

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Eliminating consumer access to debt would go far if you do not believe in wearing borrowed feathers so to speak. Incidentally, there is absolutely no correlation between grades and common sense (as the recent banking scandal should abundantly illustrate) or grades and wealth for that matter (if I had a dollar for each doctor being close to broke). For employees there is some correlation as people with higher grades make better cogs and thus are paid more. Of course you don’t really need high grades to make a lot of money in corporations: the biggest payouts tend to be close to the money streams (marketing, sales, …) rather than close to where actual innovation occurs i.e. R&D. In that regard, you just have to think back on which persons were successful in HS: The jocks or the cheerleaders or the geeks? The guy that facilities the copying of the homework will be more successful that the few persons who actually do the homework.
Early Retirement Extreme´s last blog ..Sailing, coffee brewing, and The Way

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A great man whose name is Billy once said “Should I try to be a straight A student, if you are then you think too much.”

I don’t think people necessarily believe they deserve more money, but don’t understand that by spending more money than you actually have can seriously cause issues.
Craig´s last blog ..Interview about BudgetPulse with Mr. CC

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@The Genius
Of course if I was offered a Hyundai and a BMW I’d take the BMW….and promptly sell it and buy something less flashy or expensive to maintain. A car is just something to get me to point B from point A. If more people in this world figured that out instead of seeing it as a status symbol or compensating for their crappy life….well I’ll stop there. I guess my point is more that it is sad people see having all that crap as an “A” lifestyle rather than figuring out what lifestyle they actually want. My ideal lifestyle has nothing to do with what brand car I drive or clothes I wear.

BTW, I’m a CPA.

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I agree “A”s are better! I was getting them in my major at the end of my college years. If only I could go back… But I think I’m turning out okay.

MON had a decent day today, but then again most stock did ;) Hopefully they can keep it up!
Moneyreasons´s last blog ..MoneyReasons Weekly Cache – 2010, Jan 31

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As someone else pointed out here, some people work really hard to achieve ‘c’s and others, myself included, found it pretty easy to get ‘a’s. That particular skill set did not make me a better manager of my perfectly acceptable earnings or I would never have gotten into debt in the first place. Don’t you think it’s just a bit elitist to decide what others deserve based upon a situation that is frequently determined by an individual’s opportunities and upbringing? Everybody doesn’t start out with the same access to education, much less with quality teachers that motivate and encourage students to believe in themselves, which is often where the trouble starts. Where does the trust funder with crappy grades, but got into the best schools because daddy is a donating alumni and got a great job in daddy’s multibillion dollar company fit into this idea? Does he deserve all of the luxuries he enjoys on the basis of his birth? How about recognizing that our system teaches us all to rat race like crazy, but not necessarily how to manage money? That our culture glorifies unsustainable consumerism over personal responsibility? There are an awful lot of academic success stories out there that end in serious debt and bankruptcy for school to be the determining factor in what someone “deserves.” Financial education should start in grade school, right along with math to prepare kids with life skills as much as anything else. I guess that is the phrase I’m uncomfortable with…are they “worthy” if only they are just like you? What if someone got bad grades, dropped out of school, worked as a janitor, carefully saved and invested his meager earnings and then bought the right stock at the right time, then another, and another. At what point do you decide he is deserving of a BMW? Or do you look down on him because he had a hard time passing tests in school and had to drop out to get a job when his dad abandoned his family? It’s just not that simple.
Tracy´s last blog ..Money Saving Tips That Happen To Be Green

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Kevin – Nothing wrong with having nice things and enjoying more luxurious things.

We’re talking about over consumption here, not the definiton of what an “A lifestyle” is.

Since you mention you are a CPA, what were your grades, and where did you go to school?

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@admin

True – no argument there. There was two sides to the coin on my argument. The other generalization would be the academical “failures” – Bill Gates & Mark Zuckerberg. They had a strong intellect, but technically failed out of the established system and can now wipe with 100s.

It’s not so such what grades you actually receive (almost 4 HS, over 3 but not with honors college, living like I’m on academic probation), but how you utilize your intelligence in the real world. It also extends beyond intelligence of rote knowledge (book stuff), to how intelligent you are at gaming the system (e.g. better test taking skills).

My college roommate made straight A’s doing zero work and now lives somewhere in South America earning money as an online poker player.

People are always reaching beyond their tier. Whether you have a double first name and are eying your neighbor’s new hunting ATV or comparing your dinky 40ft yacht to your neighbors new mega yacht.

@Don@Moneyreasons
You should check out the new book – Stop Acting Rich: …And Start Living Like A Real Millionaire

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I don’t know man… I got a 4.0 from Berkeley and I get Wal-Mart and a Bike.

There’s no sound correlation between GPA and financial wisdom. You articulated the problem well – a sense of entitlement and the desire to own what the neighbors have contribute to excess and debt. But what is at the root of a sense of entitlement and desire? Psychological and spiritual illness?

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I think our overconsuming culture is a result of wanting more created by the media. It’s appalling how much commercials are a part of a 30 minute sitcom. I alsothink consumers think more stuff equals more happiness…not so much true. Once someone reaches a decent lifestyle other things (they didnt realize) bring happiness. Adult peer presssure also plays into it. If he/she can afford that I have to also. Happiness is based on outside appearance.
Ken´s last blog ..Weekend Roundup

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Okay…I still don’t think it has anything to do with grades, but more of an over consuming cultural conditioning and the availability of credit, not to mention the sales pitch behind the credit. People make choices and those choices ultimately determine their earnings more than grades or other measures that don’t really tell you about a person’s character. Grades measure a skill set. It was easy for me to get A’s, but it was much harder for one of my sisters to get B’s. She had to work a lot harder than I did, but in the end, in spite of early setbacks in school, she graduated from college (at the age of 36) and earned a master’s degree. She still doesn’t earn enough teaching disabled children to buy a BMW, but I for one think she deserves one, and if I was able to give it to her, I would.
Tracy´s last blog ..Money Saving Tips That Happen To Be Green

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I totally agree with Tracy…it has anything to do with grades. It is more to do with each person’s resolve to better his life. Either superficially by spending more than what he earns…or improving his life to a lifestyle that even if he spends luxuriously, it is still much much lower than what he earns.
Allan @ Rich Money Habits´s last blog ..Funny math video-are you cheating yourself?

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” do you believe that a main reason for tremendous consumer debt is because there are delusional people who think they deserve more than they can really afford? ”

I am sure it happens but how often have you met someone that thinks they “deserve more than they can really afford?” No doubt many people buy more than they can afford, in my experience most people really believe they can afford more than they truly can by our measures. Just goes to show that even if you can get an A it doesn’t mean you truly understand how to manage your dollars.
LeanLifeCoach´s last blog ..How To File Taxes – Let Me Count The Ways

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It’s good to visit Financial Samurai again. Although I’ve been off in blogging at Millionaire Acts, I am still busy blogging at other blogs in the form of news optimizing high traffic trends because that’s where the income is. Anyway, you seem to have a lot of advertisers already and your alexa rank has grown a lot. Congratulations!

Back to the topic, I think that the media is the one creating the hype in the society. It’s not a matter of C or A students. The media is exposing “rich” as to have a lot of material possessions displayed like mansions, luxury cars, etc. It’s a show off. They are conditioning our minds that those lifestyle is the one that everyone should immitate. However, the question is do you really need those things or are you just buying them because of status quo that the media says its good?

If you can remember, one of the world’s richest person Warren Buffett lives in simplicity. No need to buy those expensive lifestyle even if he can afford.
Millionaire Acts´s last blog ..Qualities of an Effective Leader

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Lots of people definitely think they deserve more than what they can afford or deserve. Many people also can’t accurately judge what they’re good at and what they should leave to the pros – this is not the best example, but how many terrible auditions have you seen on American Idol where the contestant truly believes he/she is worthy of winning when they can’t even sing in tune? At least it makes humorous entertainment.

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A “C” student might be a slow learner but had all the good essence in life – honest, gentle heart, no evil thoughts and knew what he wanted (or wanted to be), he (she) could achieve his goal. If a “C” student became a “C” student because he (she) didn’t care and if he (she) brought the same attitute to adulthood, most likely he (she) would not succeed.

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Okay, I’m coming from a teacher’s prospective, but the No Child Left Behind act calls for all students to be proficient by 2013. This means all students needs to be a C+ or B average at least, throwing out the bell curve research of yester-year. Does this mean that these same students will have a better future in the employment market? Maybe. Does this mean the that those students who now have a B average will acquire more things? I hope not, for the environment’s sake.

Gordie, above, commented on how the US educational system doesn’t prepare students for a world of finance. That is really true. However, education as a whole is trying to change that by increasing their math skills and problem solving skills. Maybe the next generation will have a better handle on finance. We can only hope ;)
Little House´s last blog ..Home Architecture, and Little House Floor Plans

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admin Reply:
February 2nd, 2010 at 11:21 am

Little House – Insightful comments. A “B” student doesn’t need to acquire more things, as an “A” lifestyle doesn’t necessarily mean more things. I was just using the material items as examples.

I guess I’m trying to figure out the reason why more students don’t try and get “A’s”, if they know that grades and eduction are important to improving your standard of living. I ask b/c in 9th grade, I just didn’t want to get “A’s”, i wanted to have fun. When I decided I wanted to get “A’s”, I did get A’s… i just had to study harder and care. So long as there wasn’t some evil person pointing a gun to my head saying I shouldn’t get an “A’s”, I felt I could do well in school.

Lovingkind – You’re right, as it’s hard to generalize. I just wonder though about effort. If people put in the effort, they have a higher chance of succeeding. Like many have said already, grades are just about taking exams and paying attention. That takes effort imo.

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Another fun post!

I worked harder than any of my friends/housemates in college. Chemical Engineering with Honors while they goofed off with History, Economics and Anthropology degrees. Nothing against those majors, they just got Bs with very little effort honestly. My electives like Astrophysics were hard than their capstone course. They partied hard pretty much every night while I kept mine to 1 night a week and worked either a job or studied virtually the other 6. They went on Spring Break every year while I was assigned week long take-home projects the Friday before break started. Our professors pretty much made sure it was impossible to live the same “college life” so many others did. I got out of school with a very good starting salary. However…

Here’s the funny part. While I was working my butt off as a night shift/weekend biotech supervisor, they all went to get MBAs (with no financial undergrad or aspirations), went on to get jobs on Wall Street and at Hedge Funds and they pretty much make 2-4 times what I do now.

Can’t say there’s a strong correlation with GPA and earnings specifically; I think major, when you graduated (i.e. into a hot or crappy job market), and many other intangibles that can’t be predicted in advance determine ultimate earning power.

Now that’s also somewhat unrelated to the actual problem in America. This happens with the full spectrum of earners – lack of self-control. People want what other people have. It takes some discipline, a good example from your parents, making some mistakes and some luck to actually have a decent financial balance sheet. At this point in time, I’d wager that the majority of Americans in their twenties have a very poor balance sheet. People wise up by their thirties, freak out by their forties and then college costs/retirement jitters hit in the fifties/sixtees. Some people never grow up.

It’s really quite a cycle – the American story…
Darwin’s Finance´s last blog ..Winners and Losers Under Obama’s New Tax Plan

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“I for one believe there is a correlation between good grades and work ethic and smarts.”

I’m noticing a divide here between @admin who probably studied and was rewarded for it and is miffed that people buy nice things even if they are lazy bums… and the people who were lazy bums or bad test takers but living it up due to luck with jobs. :) It’s pretty evenly split considering.

I for one am lazy but extremely lucky in my job/major selection and my common sense with money (common sense isn’t that common, so anyone here with some of it is ahead of the game). I’ll have my A lifestyle in a few more years with no major risks if all goes well :)

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Do you believe that a main reason for tremendous consumer debt is because there are delusional people who think they deserve more than they can really afford?
Yes – A good amount of people are completely financially illiterate so they don’t understand their limits, high college gpa students included.

If people want all the fancy things in life, why don’t they just work harder in school, be the best employee, or invent something successful to accommodate their desires?
Because it’s work! haha.

What GPA did you get in HS/College, and will you be justifying your spending habits in the discussion below?
3.3 with a finance degree. I live on $1,000 a month and prefer to live below my means to gain experiences rather than BMW’s. Living the “mediocre” fun life at the moment after meeting a ton of unhappy corporate businessmen who ended up spending their money on Mercedes’ and parties because their life sucks.

This is an interesting take, but I don’t think GPA would be a good correlation.

GPA is a reflection of how well you do in a structured environment. Play by the rules, get an A, play by the rules, get a raise. I found that the classes I did worse in were the ones I didn’t care about, simply because they weren’t intellectually stimulating. Power point slides and vocab tests are not how to learn business, or anything for that matter. The world is not structured and opportunities are often seized by those who break the mold.

Wealth is not a function of your college gpa, it’s a function of your ability to manage money which can be learned by reading a David Bach book on a Sunday afternoon. Most of the millionaires I know don’t have college degrees, but did have a motivating driver to change their lives (could this be the same motivator as getting a college degree?? not sure). Most of the average “rich” people with college degrees or doctorates that I know have second mortgages and a lexus in their driveway. Maybe because as an A student, they feel more entitled to nicer things and thus dig a bigger hole.

Would an english masters student with a 4.0 GPA be better suited to handle being rich than a 2.5 Finance major?

Here’s an interesting article about the paths of valedictorians who would be given the most options in a system like this.
http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/rvp/pubaf/chronicle/v4/N2/ARNOLD.html

I’m sure there might some correlation, but studying extra hours on your flashcards or learning more about Greek Gods (for us liberal arts grads) doesn’t mean you’re motivated to bust your hump in the real world. It could mean you just make a great career student.
Ryan @ Planting Dollars´s last blog ..The Part Time Job Search

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Yo Sam, I’ve been a bit busy at work but figured I’d drop by. Looks like your site is progressing nicely- congrats! And the fund is doing all right… pity about Toyota- stupid pedals sticking…

High school/college- I made decent grades but nothing amazing. Definitely could have put more effort in there. Right now my cost of living is pretty low, and when I move to South America in March my cost of living will be around $300-$500/month. Hopefully I’ll be in a position to finally save some money. The only extra costs that might be hard to justify will be weekend excursions to the beach to go surfing.
Jon´s last blog ..5 Investments for Gramma

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@admin “It’s not easy to get straight A’s.” sez you!

Do people that are lazy bums but gifted with the smarts deserve the easy lifestyle they get? What about lazy heirs to fortunes? What about people that aren’t so bright but are pretty hardworking?

I always question deserves.

And for the record, it’s more interesting when I don’t completely agree. For me anyway!

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Hi … always good to visit here. The read is always enjoyable, the topic thought provoking (in a funny, bent off the wall kind of way which I love) and the comments are enlightening.

Soooo…. should the slackers in HS and College enjoy the same good life that the “A” students do. OK…. here is where I weigh in with my thoughts but first let me say that I think your parents are wonderful and there should be more like them.

You know there are two types of A students – ones that work hard for their grades and then there are those for whom things come easy. There are also C students who are brilliant but are bored to tears because the average curriculum does not cater to brilliancy. Now the B’s just BS all the time … ok, ok…. I couldn’t help myself, the devil made me say that….

Here is what often happens in real life (of course there are exceptions):

The A student that worked hard for her grade developed a good work ethic and that has stood her/him in good stead throughout their life. They may or may not be the top earners but its a good bet that they enjoy a better than average income and lifestyle.

The A student for whom things came easy eventually hits a wall and does not have the discipline to tackle it. Not used to having to fight for something s/he walks away from the situation saying that it’s “not worth it” … this happens with annoying regularity. One such A student will continue this life pattern and end up living a C class or even below life. Another such A student gets frustrated, knowing full well that s/he is smart and this is not the way s/he wanted to live his life. Pulls himself up by the bootstraps and begins to apply himself. Once s/he begins to apply himself often outperforms the hard working A student. I don’t know why … but that has been my observation (hey, I’ve got kids that are probably most of the reader’s age here)

The brilliant C student may end up living life as a drifter, too independent to knuckle down to anything, a maverick if you will. Sometimes through stint of circumstances, s/he is thrown into just the right situation where the intellect is challenged and thereby stimulated to such a degree that critical thinking and action mesh – these are often the entrepreneurs who rise to dizzying heights both in personal and financial stature. Their maverick nature stands in good stead because they really don’t care what people think of them and so will take informed risks based not on what others will think of them but on what the “risk” offers as a payoff. This is a rare human being.

The Beeez ………..oh they just keep on buzzing along and do either fine or OK.

Now another point that I want to make here.

The A’s who are making truckloads of dough are often just as financially strapped as the the poor C’s (the ones that were not brilliant). It’s a case of understanding our relationship with money and how to manage it. It is not so much how much you make, but how you manage what you make.

My quarter’s worth …………… :-)

best………..valentina

Me? Oh yeah … but I did not grow up here and yes, I was a straight A student (but I won’t tell you which type)
Valentina´s last blog ..Meet My Friend: Author Wendy Atkinson

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I’ll be living with some friends and teaching English classes at the University.

As far as providing a weekly snapshot of your fund goes, I’d be happy to give it a try. Unfortunately, I have a 3 year old macbook that is the smallest size that they had at the time (I’m a cheapo :D), so I don’t know if I’ll be much help.
Jon´s last blog ..5 Investments for Gramma

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@admin

Right, I think you’re misinterpreting my point. They weren’t dummies at all. They “could” have graduated with honors, but they didn’t…

What they did do was take their intelligence, ambition, and ideas OUTSIDE of the “system”. You refer to ‘big brother’ government – what are schools under?

Along the lines of the other comments, what I believe I originally was trying to get at was that GPA can only loosely be attributed to someone’s overall success. This is where the rapper reference came up.

It can be used as a predictive metric to see how someone may potentially do, but basically ends there. You get good grades in high school to get into a good college – you get good grades in college to get a good job – you get a good job and all of the sudden you’re little fish in a big pond…

my original post,

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I’m reminded of something a lawyer once told me.

“Once you’re sitting on this side of the desk, no one ever asks you how well you did on tests during law school.”

As Financial Engineer pointed out, the correlation between grades and future success is, at best, spotty.

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admin Reply:
February 4th, 2010 at 4:06 pm

Financial Uproar/Financial Engineer – How does one get to sitting behind the desk if one is a C student?

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I don’t really take too much stock in “A’s” I care more about the effort & desire, not necessarily the score. Lots of straight A students that have zero clue in life. In my blog I discuss my DEBT FREE path. There are three very simple rules to succeed with money.
Dollars Not Debt´s last blog ..Do You Want to Be Wealthy? Three Very Simple Rules to Make You Rich

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@admin
I’m sure loads of desk jockeys were C students. State colleges aren’t super-exclusive, and besides, machinists can get paid more than accountants.

“So, rightly or wrongly, poorer grades means less effort.”
I continue to disagree. I breezed through school and got a 93 coming out of high school. I could have gotten better grades, but why? I’m good at test taking. I work hard now, but I have a good motivation, and it begins with $.

Perhaps your post is better retitled “do people who put in minimum effort deserve a maximum lifestyle?” And I think that if they’re capitalists and they’ve figured out a way to get a maximum lifestyle on minimum effort, that shows the success of the system. If we were all rewarded based on how hard we tried… that’s “from each according to his ability”, or however the quote goes.

More food for thought:
Good Grades Predict Success? from another blog :)

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Plenty of C students who are far from average income earners, I don’t think you can make a blanket generalization just based on the grades someone got, and certainly no real judgment just because they went to some unknown college, I believe that we all should be enjoying the nice stuff that comes to us.

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[i]Do you believe that a main reason for tremendous consumer debt is because there are delusional people who think they deserve more than they can really afford?[/i]

Late to the conversation (quite an impressive conversation, to boot). To the first question, yes, I’m sure that’s a factor. Everything from ads to the media tend to promote the idea that simply for being an American (or more broadly, a human) you deserve to have all your wishes and desires fulfilled. Not sure that that’s a bad thing; hopefully, most people whose reach exceeds their grasp will try hard to improve their financial situation, rather than going into debt. Although, we all know that’s just not the case.

[i]If people want all the fancy things in life, why don’t they just work harder in school, be the best employee, or invent something successful to accommodate their desires?[/i]

Well, it’s not that simple; unfortunately, there’s not a direct correlation between hard work and financial success. If you’re a minimum wage slave working a dead end job, it’s unlikely that simply working harder will be enough to greatly improve your financial situation. (Let’s not even get into people in other parts of the world, where working all your life in back breaking conditions may not even get you enough food to feed yourself, let alone your family).

Same thing for being a good employee or being inventive. There are thousands of great employees who can’t get ahead in life for any number of reasons, from bosses who take all the credit to social issues that prevent them from effectively promoting themselves. That’s a good number of inventors who struggle all their lives to see their inventions become reality, but for one reason or another, never have much financial success. (For a truly depressing example, read about Nikolai Tesla sometime; poor guy was brilliant, but unlucky in his financial life.) There’s just no single reason why hard work and knowledge isn’t (always) the key to financial success.

[i]What GPA did you get in HS/College, and will you be justifying your spending habits in the discussion below?[/i]

A 3.89 in college (in biochemistry, no less), and off the scale in high school (because my school did some weird things with how they calculated GPAs with regards to college level courses. And no, I won’t be justifying my spending habits; I know that I need to spend less, and I’ll make no excuses for my current spending.
Roger´s last blog ..Financial Samurai’s Alexa Challenge

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admin Reply:
February 8th, 2010 at 9:30 am

Roger – As always, some great comments by you. Yes, it’s not easy studying hard, working hard, spending another 3-5 hours on your side project after 12 hours at work, and coming up with creative ideas…. but look around. Every single product out there was dreamt up by someone. There are too many success stories in life NOT to be inspired and to realize that there is a strong correlation with work ethic and success.

Everybody has a different definition of success, but the one thing I can’t stand is complaining. Once can’t complain why he or she has it so good, when one isn’t giving 1000%. Hence, I conclude with how I concluded…. no complaining, no whining, there’s nobody to blame but ourselves.

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What if you were an A student in one area and a C in another? I excelled in the humanities but struggled in math and science. I guess I would average out to a B student and deserving of some mid-level brands like J. Crew and Banana Republic?

From my observations at work, there is little correlation between grades/schools and financial success. For example, our most successful salespeople did not graduate from great schools and are not the book smart types. They definitely make more than many of the straight A student types!
oilandgarlic´s last blog ..Please Save My Red Sauce!

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Plain and simple No….. Grades and What you “deserve” have no relation.

One of my good friends flunked school and was told to be a street sweeper…. He somehow ended up as a well known designer earning a very good wage with the best financial sense of anyone I know (he has the cash in the bank to buy a home outright when he finds the one he wants).

In England we have a society called Mensa. Maybe they have it in the states too…. Anyway the smartest kid in our school was invited to join Mensa and he passed the tests with flying colours. He had an outstanding IQ. When he reached 14/15 years old due to turbulent times with his home live and some kind of rebellion he ended up flunking everything…. He left school with nothing and went in at the bottom rung of the ladder…. Years on he works in Spain living a great live and is a top level network manager on very very good money.

I left school at 16 and never passed this level of education. I left school with good grades (12 GCSE’s (11 in the A*-B range and 1 C)….. However this is low level education…. I started at the bottom of a company and swiftly worked my way up, became a successful freelancer and then landed a fairly prestigious job as a deign manager, managing and designing for very well known brands and taking home a high salary.

Many, many people are stuck at home with PHD’s, Masters and what’s not due to lack of common sense or motivation and sometimes a sense of entitlement!…..

Some people don’t take to education, some people have other factors that affect their study. To decide anything about what someone deserves based on grades is very bad in my eyes and maybe a little elitist too.

:) Another great debate post Sam.
Forest´s last blog ..Condom Soccer Balls, Not Just For Hard Times

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admin Reply:
May 2nd, 2010 at 12:45 pm

Hi Forest,

Very interesting story you tell. Of course, there are examples arguing both sides. In America, we are being led down the path of total government control, so I thought it’d be nice to throw in a draconian type of measure such as implementing spending policy based on grades.

I think it’s very natural for those who didn’t do well to argue that good grades aren’t necessary. It’s very rational. Implementing this policy is elitist, only if you didn’t get good grades though right? Stay tuned for another post!

Best, Sam

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Forest Reply:
May 3rd, 2010 at 12:38 am

Just reading the latest post now…. loading up the vid.

Success depends on too many things to make a simple judgment and I think encouraging entrepreneur’s to push their ideas into the world through small business is a good way to increase individuals success…. but then I am not a fan of big corporate run business.

USA is run by corporations right now… Government or Corporations…. Apples or Oranges, At the end of the day you have to have self drive to make it and every system will have advantages or disadvantages.
Forest´s last blog ..Condom Soccer Balls, Not Just For Hard Times

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Ashley Ambirge says that having a 4.0 is worthless. She’d rather have had the experiences of a 3.5er.

Also, Gen Y is experiencing grade inflation, where everybody gets an A. So, the natural distribution curve gives an average around A-. Is that fair? Not exactly.

But as a result of grade inflation, employers know that your GPA has little impact on your value as a worker. What it does show is your ability to follow directions.

My GPA in high school was 3.98. Like most college students, the only things I spend money on are food and books.
Mneiae´s last blog ..Global Potable Water

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