Should I Join A Private Sports Club? Analyzing The Pros And Cons

Should I Join A Private Sports Club? Analyzing The Pros And Cons

Do you want to join a private sports club for networking and entertainment? I had this dilemma back in 2010. Today, I'm glad I did because I've made a lot of friends in the process.

Despite having to pay a $10,000 initiation fee, I decided to join a private sports club in San Francisco. It has been one of my best decisions of my life.

Let me share with you the thought process I had with regards to joining a private club back in 2010. I'll then share what it's been like over the past 10 years.

Wondering Whether To Join A Private Sports Club

One of my friends who so happens to be a client, but who really is just a great friend who so happens to be a very large client, invited me to play tennis at his posh tennis club the other day. 

After we hit around for an hour, he mentioned I should join and he could be my primary sponsor.  I told him I'd think about it over the weekend and let him know.

I did some digging with the Membership representative afterwards.  The first hint that told me I was in for a big dilemma was when she said there were no brochures as everything is “exclusive and private.” 

“We don't advertise our club Sam.” she said.  OK, great, how is that going to help me make an informed decision, I thought to myself. 

Not wanting to piss her off or anything, I just asked her if she could tell me about how to join. 

Joining The Club: Message From Admissions

Great to hear that you are interested in joining, but let me warn you that not everybody can.  First of all, it takes one sponsor, a co-sponsor and 5 other members to write you letters of recommendations.  Second of all, once all your documents are gathered, your name is put up on our main bulletin board for guests to review.  If even one member is not satisfied with you for some reason, you will go under review and be asked to explain yourself for whatever grievances the member may have.

After a month, we will then invite you to meet with the Membership Committee to have a semi-formal interview for final review.  Finally, if you are invited to join, we would require the $10,000 upfront, and the dues are only $175/month thereafter, with a low $100/quarter food consumption minimum.

At this point, my head started spinning. Am I applying to buy a fancy New York City Co-Op apartment, the CIA, Harvard University, or a tennis club where we have fun and play a game I love? Jee whiz, this sounds so exclusive and as an outsider, I'm not sure if I'll fit in. 

The average member is a couple decades older, and there's really not a lot of diversity, which is odd in a city like San Francisco. That said, the location is wonderful, the people are kind, and the courts are always available.

I played a lot of tennis as a kid, and I'd love to continue playing sports as an adult.

Getting Into A Private Club

As I got past the exclusivity part of getting in, I started fixating on the costs.  $10,000 is a lot of money. I could buy a car, a new kick-butt home theater system with 60″ LED TV, or 10,000 Super Lotto tickets with that much money! 

To my friend who wants me to join, $10,000 to me is like maybe $500 bucks to him. He's much wealthier, but at least I'm better looking and have a nicer backhand.

The issue I'm facing now is whether or not spending $10,000 to join this exclusive club where there are plenty of well connected members is worth it. 

I feel bad for my member friend who always has to pay my guest fee. I also feel bad for my bank account to just write a $10,000 check to play tennis since I'm already a member of one club. Further, there are some free courts just three blocks away from my house (they suck though). 

This may very well be a case of lifestyle inflation, which I've done well to avoid for the past 5 years. At the same time, I'd like to join an establishment that always has courts readily available to play on, with great people to connect with.

Pros And Cons Of Joining A Private Sports Club

Pros Of Joining

  • Great facilities that are always available
  • Good location that's closer to home.
  • A new network of friends and connections to tap into for leisure or business.
  • New social functions to attend.
  • Exclusivity.
  • Honor my friend's gesture of sponsorship which doesn't get offered to all.
  • Safer
  • Help you children with sports and with education

Cons Of Joining

  • Cost. I could invest $10,000 to build more passive income streams fo retirement.
  • Not simplifying life as already a member of a couple clubs.
  • No equity in the $10,000 membership fee.
  • Exclusivity and the negative connotations that come with being exclusive.
  • Not a diverse club in terms of race or socioeconomics

Joining A Private Sports Club Is Worth It

More than 10 years later, I'm happy I joined the private tennis club. It feels like a second home where everybody is friendly. The longer you are a member, the more comfortable it feels. I'd venture to say spending money on a private sports club has been the greatest return on investment yet, from a lifestyle perspective.

I've gotten to know a tremendous amount of great people who I call friends. Some are CEOs of public companies. Others are ex-division I college tennis players. Many other entrepreneurs, mothers, and fathers. For the most part, the members have been great.

One fellow club member even hooked me up with a $14,000 stay in Paris. He also invited me to their vacation property in Napa. Further, I've gotten to keep up my skills and get bumped up to USTA 5.0!

My only issue is the lack of diversity. Most of the members are white and most work in finance, tech, and internet. It would be nice to have more people from different backgrounds play as well.

Sports knows no bounds. The good thing about playing sports is that if you are an advanced player at a tennis club, you can play with anybody. Your opponent could be a billionaire, on the tennis court you are equal.

If you're a Warriors or NBA fan, here's a conversation I had with 4X NBA champion Shaun Livingston. One of the best things about sports is that it brings people together from all backgrounds.

A Social Outlet Is Incredibly Valuable

The feeling of camaraderie and kinship is what makes joining any type of organization or private club so special. The coronavirus pandemic has made joining a private sports club even more valuable.

Tennis has become a very popular sport in the city because it is outdoors. As a result, a lot of the public tennis courts are always packed. Further, it's nice to play in a private area where everybody follows health safety protocols.

Bottom line: If you have the opportunity to join a private club, do it. The camaraderie you will gain will be worth it. The private club was also great during the pandemic as well. Everybody needs a social outlet. I've met more great people at my private club than anywhere else.

Related post: Why You Should Play Pickleball: The Best Sport Today

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58 thoughts on “Should I Join A Private Sports Club? Analyzing The Pros And Cons”

  1. Great post Sam – read your blog weekly and love the topics and overall tone and messages you try and convey. You inspired me to even start my own blog a few months ago – about life in Twin Cities where I live.

    I’m recently engaged, getting married in the Fall and have started to have talks about retirement, life goals, and yes the pros and cons of joining a country club. I’m a big golfer, she’s a big tennis player. Here’s my recent post on the country club dilemma. Keep up the good work. I’ve been enjoying the side gig blog life :)

  2. It sounded like you joined and you like the club and opportunities? I’m stuck in a situation too. My club is asking for $1250 one time initiation fee and $257/mo fees after that without food minimum. I am applying for a young executive membership where I can also add my girlfriend who I live with. Our purpose is to network and try to find new friends and mentors who would open opportunities in a business perspective (I.e. New job, start up opportunities, clients, etc). The fee is inclusive for both of us. What are your thoughts? Should we join to grow our network? We hope to give it 3 years of it a try and see if we can get an ROI on it. If not we will quit. I am 27 and want to make closer to $200k as my goal (I.e. Your view or base point to financial freedom. Please feel free to shed some light on this as I am contemplating joining the club

    1. I have got to say the $10,000 was one of the BEST investments ever! I’ve met so many amazing people, had so many wonderful tennis matches, and have had plenty of outside the club experiences due to the friends I’ve met. For example, I went to Wimbledon to celebrate a friend’s 50th birthday last year. We watched Federer and Nadal on Centre Court! For me, that’s a dream come true bucket list.

      Joining a club, especially if you have people you want to network with is a no brainer. I’m not even working anymore, and I find huge value in my tennis club.

  3. So you like the Olympic CLub? I’m in the same situation right now–deciding if it’s a good decision to join.

  4. It’s been a few years. What happened?

    I’m facing a similar decision. I’m my early thirties and the club I want to join is $15K plus about $250/mo. This would not be an easy bullet to bite – no $15K laying around.

    It has the best squash courts in town – my sport of choice, great facilities, and perhaps a good place to go with kids once that comes around. I’m having the same questions you did. A big difference is that I’m not self-employed… but the best time to build relationships is when you don’t need any favours :)

    1. It’s been really worth it, not only because the facilities are great, but the connections made have really been beyond expectations.

      For example, I’m playing this afternoon with an entrepreneur whose father so happens to be a US Supreme Court justice, who so happens to know the CEO of Yahoo, who so happens to know everybody. It’s a fascinating circle of folks once you start getting to know people.

      Id do it, especially of you really enjoy squash like I enjoy tennis!

  5. Sam, My dad was really good at both making money as well as enjoying it. One without the other is worthless. Have fun and enjoy the new people and experiences! Leisure and recreation are VERY IMPORTANT aspects of life not to be trumped by work work work!!!!

  6. Go for it.

    Everyone’s looking at the potential business with regards to recouping the initiation fee “in kind”, but you can’t forecast exactly how much you will make back or how many new clients you’ll need to acquire to break even without expanding your network.

    Think that’s the primary benefit of the new membership – new, untapped resources in any capacity – even beyond your regular business. You may not get any new clients, but could end up with some substantial individual investors in the Yakezie Scholarship Fund.

    As far as the quarterly requirement, you could probably take existing clients there as guests and easily spend $100 on food.

    1. Yes, good point about the Scholarship which I’ve thought about as well. Frankly, I just want to play tennis and get to know some good folks. Waiting for hours to play on rundown courts is a pain for an avid player like me.

  7. If you think it’s worth your time and effort in making quality contacts that can help you in business, provide you with a lot of personal enjoyment w/tennis, AND can fit into your budget – then why not?

    For most, I don’t think this would even be a remote option, considering the income of the average U.S. family. It would fall squarely under the category of a want, not even close to being a need. For me…out of the question financially. Besides, I took tennis lessons as a kid and was just average…..and haven’t been on the court in 15 years!

    That said, Sam, we all have different financial situations, and you’re not me. If you can swing it, and you think it’s worth it, why not do it? Once you get past the up front fee, the rest seems much more reasonable in terms of monthy/quarterly fees.

    May want to cut out the other clubs though! Hard to spread onself so thin.

    1. Indeed man. I’m thinking of dropping the other club if I join this one. Although the other club is quite convenient to downtown.

      I’m sensitive to the fact that the cost is high and probably doesn’t seem reasonable for a lot of people. Hence, I’m very grateful for the thoughtful responses out there including yours. I think I’m going to go for it!

  8. Sam, Although I appreciate being consulted, this is strictly a values and finances question. Is the money you will spend in line with your personal values? Will you get enough satisfaction from the country club expense to make it worthwhile to you. At one time we belonged to several tennis/swim clubs. My husband and daughter were both ranked competitive tennis players. The value and advantages were worth it. We are not golfers so never wanted to join a country club as we felt it would be a waste of money to pay a country club whose primary sport was golf. Good luck with the decision.

    1. Compared to a golf club Membership, $10K is chump change actually… and I do LOVE golf too! I think I will get some good use out of the club and meet some great new people.

      I do miss my other club (way cheaper and joined 10 years ago) though, so after this initial payment shock, I think I will enjoy spending time at both.

  9. The other benefit to membership environment is that you can bring in your wife/partner or another friend/associate and thus expand your network through them

  10. If the 10k is alot of money to you for a simple recreational activity then don’t join, however if you are viewing it as a fee to social and biz access then it is simply a business decision you have to make on the best allocation of your resources.

    I recently joined a tennis only club in NYC based solely upon biz reasons from a personal recreational standpoint I would have never considered it.

    My choice has already paid for itself several times over with regards to business

  11. The cost will only be worth it if you can get a good number of clients from it. You have been to this club in the past so you would be familiar with the type of members and if they would/could be potential clients.
    In the longer run, I would agree with another commentator that you would benefit more if you got involved in the community like community events, volunteer events, etc.
    $10,000 could get you a lot more mileage in the community that an exclusive club.
    Again, if the club is full of rich potential clients that it’s a no brainer.

    Hope you make the right decision :)

    1. volunteering is a crapshoot unless u are on the board or a committee for the organization that gives u access to the social elite.

      Much easier to strike up a convo with a guy in the locker room about his backhand and have the club arrange a match with him the following week than striking up personal convo with a potential client in a soup kitchen who you may never see again because their wife made them volunteer that one day.

  12. I hope you are going to post here or in a brand new post, you decision.

    I hope the post includes whether you feel people’s comments influenced your final decision. I hope you state whether you would have made a different decision if people had not posted there thoughts. Or whether the posts just confirmed what you were already thinking/leaning towards deciding.

    1. Sure, I will. Part of the fear I have is the fear of rejection since I need five letters. Going to me my friends brother and friend as well.

      I’m excited to give it a go if they are excited to have me. It works both ways, like a job interview or anything you have to apply to!

      1. The first sentence really hit home and put a big smile on my face – thanks.

        Rejection – of any type is so difficult. I often travel to South East Asia on vacation and ask people if I can take their picture. I always feel bad when they say no.

  13. I really like how “exclusivity” is both a pro and a con in your lists, it’s so true, you get the exclusive connection with high-end business clients that you can’t meet so easily anywhere else, plus you get the potential for discrimination that comes with the exclusive enrollment process, which is actually based on the personal judgements of fellow members it seems.

    From a purely business standpoint, I would do it if the potential for returns on your investment was there as far as networking goes.

    From a tennis perspective, I would do it for the always-available and probably immaculately groomed courts, if you could afford it just for that reason.

    From a social viewpoint, I don’t think I would join the club if it wasn’t for the above business and tennis benefits, but that’s just because I’m a little socially awkward and wouldn’t enjoy the pressure of having to live up to other people’s standards during the application process, as opposed to a club that just lets anyone join who can afford it, even if it is really expensive, which is enough exclusivity on its own if you think about it.

    I guess you’d also have to consider how much time you would have to put in at the club to gain the business networking benefits, as beyond just playing tennis, you’d probably have to spend some time dining with other members and socializing in general to reap the biggest rewards.

    You also said your friend always pays the guest fee, so maybe you could just consider paying for that guest fee whenever you go with your friend (so you wouldn’t feel guilty), as that might be less expensive than joining altogether, plus you could possibly still do some socializing while you were at the club, if the guest pass gives you access to all of the club for an entire day or some other type of scenario like that.

    1. Yeah, for some reason, even if you’ve done nothing wrong, but are part of an private club, people will hate you for it. Hence, the negative, and why people are encouraged to keep their wealth hidden, in fear of persecution.

  14. Money Reasons

    Wow, that’s a rough choice!

    First, I don’t think you’ll be rejected, so I’d scratch that from being relevant.

    I know I couldn’t afford it, but you’ll be making many times (if you don’t already) more than what I make.

    What makes it hard is the question of whether the benefits equal the costs…

    Sheerly guessing, I would think that the network there is both generous and supporting. Based on what I’ve been reading on your blog for the past year and a half, I’d say you’d thrive in such an environment.

    Perhaps you could ask your friend for additional help on the decision? Or maybe that wouldn’t be comfortable. I’d hate to hear that you joined and the only benefit you got out of it would be bragging rights… That would bite!

    Very hard choice my friend! I wish I could provide some experienced knowledge, but alas, I’ve never been in the situation that you are in.

    If I had the money though, personally, I would go for it… :) Afterall, your friend has a membership there so it got to have some positive element to keep him there (hopefully other than bragging rights)…

    1. Thanks for your thoughts mate. It’s a tough one but I assure you, there is no ego or bragging rights involved with this decision. It’s not like I’m going to try and pick up girls or look down on other tennis players with my membership! Well, maybe for tennis playing girls…..

  15. That’s a tough one right there. I would join if I thought that it was worth it to me. Is it worth it to you for relaxation and fun? Do you think that the connections that you would make are worth more than $10k? You can always think of it this way. Will you be happy 20 years from now that you paid the $10k and became a member of the club?

  16. Sam,

    How much are you paying now for gym fees and to play tennis? You will have to increase your monthly dues to $208 (including minimum food spending).

    Any plan to move from the area? That would be your biggest risk given the sunk cost of $10K. Also is there any mitigating circumstance to get a refund, like if you have a long term injury?

    -Mike

  17. Dude. I love me some tennis, but don’t think I could fork over the $10gs upfront to do it. If you choose to do it, make sure you play the hell out of those courts. You’re a smart man and will make whatever decision you see as best, can’t wait to hear what you do!

  18. Hmm. The perks career wise could be worth it. And at the end of the day it’s a sports club and it sounds like you’d use and enjoy the facilities even if you don’t get your money “back” through the networking. The application process sounds nuts to me though as I’ve never applied for a club like that. If it was me I don’t think I could fork over that kind of cash but I’m also extremely frugal these days. Best of luck

  19. I’d break it down to why you’re doing it.

    Biz
    I don’t know exactly what line of work you’re in, but if your assessment is that you’ll increase your income from attracting new clients, getting in on some angel investments or whatever, then perhaps the ROI’s positive in the end.

    Pleasure
    I have friends with hobbies much more expensive and arguably much less useful. At least you’re getting exercise, enjoying yourself, and realizing some fringe benefits on the side.

    I can’t really relate. With 3 young kids, I barely have enough time to catch a turd by myself when I step in the door from work, let alone have hobbies. I guess blogging’s a night hobby, but it’s kinda work too. But if I were in your shoes, and had the means, would probably consider it.

  20. How would you feel if you applied, then got rejected? Well, at least you wouldn’t be hurting your client’s feelings by saying no.

    There is something to be said about running in the right circles though. It can lead to new clients and/or new job opportunities and that’s worth quite a bit. I guess it depends on what your aspirations are and if this club will help you get there faster or not. What’s your answer to that?

  21. I would make the decision to join this club at those prices just after I made the decision to jab myself in the neck with a shrimp fork.

    The whole bogus review process alone is inane and repulsive, and then on top of that they want $10k and then $3k/year? Plus you’d have the Ted Knight character from Caddyshack to deal with.

    No thanks–give me public or cheap private courts, even if they are not so nice (but there’s a reason they are crowded…they are cheap!), but go at odd hours to beat the crowds.

    1. Lol, nice one! What is it about private exclusive clubs that just gets to people? It’s not like te majority of people there are bad people and pricks. They couldn’t get to where they are by being so!

  22. I think the network opportunities are priceless. It’s all about who you know right?
    I haven’t followed you long enough to know your line of work, but it sounds like you are in the financial sector. If you can get a client or two, it would still be worth it.

    Personally, I wouldn’t join because I’m not in the financial sector and it wouldn’t make sense for me.

  23. Sam,

    Like the others not sure what you do (I don’t think you have ever disclosed it) but if you could parlay the membership into income I say go for it. However, if you are one of those people (and you don’t seem like it) who will join and never even TRY to turn it into income I would say pass.

    Regardless you should check to see if they have a no-moose policy at the valet

  24. Robert Muir

    I wouldn’t worry too much about the $10k since it’s a one-time sunk cost if you can afford it. The real issue is the $3,000 annual cost, year after year. ($175 + ~$50 for required food).

    Pros: You are who you associate with. Associate with successful professionals and you may be a more successful professional yourself. Ready Diogenese club type advice available? Possible, but not guaranteed clients? I wouldn’t poo-poo the possibility of additional clients though. Given time, if you are good, and you have current clients at the club, this could really snowball over the years.

    Deductibility?. All the fees (aside from the food fee) will probably be completely deductible.

    Con: As you mentioned, lifestyle inflation. You may feel less rich (surrounded by the wealthy) causing you to spend more than you would otherwise.

  25. Invest It Wisely

    Are the psychic and monetary benefits worth the costs? That’s really all it comes down to. Will you be significantly more than $10,000 + $175/mo. + $100/quarter better off by joining this club? What are the opportunity costs of that money? What else could you be doing with that cash and time?

  26. Hey Sam, you going to take me to the club when I get to SF?

    I agree with the above. I don’t see you changing and becoming a snob. But the realistic valuation of the membership in regards to an investment would be my recommendation.

    I don’t know what kind of business you are in, but if you can use this network to your advantage go for it.

    If it is just ego stroking, go look in the mirror, tell yourself how gorgeous you look and save the 10 grand.

    In a lifetime of earnings 10 grand is cheap, but 10 grand wasted ain’t chickenfeed!

    1. Sorry Doc, but you’ll be taking me out to Harris’ Steak House for some American Wagyu medium rare rib-eye with a lettuce tomato wedge and a nice glass of Cabernet!

      Club food sucks. :)

      Is there ego involved in joining a club? How does ego come to play with regards to bloggig and identities?

      1. I am with you on all the food choices, sorry Vegans, that ain’t me!

        We are all driven by different motivators, in all we do. Nothing wrong with that.
        The more you recognize your motivators for what they are, the less we fool ourselves.

  27. I worked at an exclusive country club as a lifeguard and swim coach all through college. Almost all the people at that club were very nice and all were quite successful professionally. They all seemed to enjoy the atmosphere.

    I will say, however, that the children I worked with at the pool were mostly very spoiled and entitled. And, of course, they get that from their parents. There were a few down-to-earth adults there, and some of them I built fantastic relationships with. However, there were some who couldn’t be bothered with talking to “the help”.

    I think it’s important to understand that you will be surrounded by people who think their “s*** don’t stink” and decide if that is a place you’d be comfortable spending time.

    Oh wait, you already live in SF… You should be used to those people by now. :)

    1. Hi Kevin, thx for your perspective. Do u think some of the members just cant be bothered with the “help” just like how when you go to a nice restaurant, one doesn’t socialize much withthe waiter but the person across the table instead?

      SF has some of the most relaxed and innovative people on the planet who aren’t so much focused on money but creativity and social causes. Wrong stereotype for SF you got there!

      1. Like I said, there were quite a few great people. And a waiter is much different because I was actually working with their kids (as a coach) as opposed to just doing tasks for them.

        There will be a few people with snobby attitudes, but if your club is like the one I worked at, there will be enough down-to-earth people that you can avoid the snobs.

        1. Good point on coaching vs waiting. Frankly, I’m scared of snobs. They turn me off. I want to join bc my friends invited me to. No organization is perfect, so we gotta roll with the punches.

          Would you everconsider joining the club you worked at at an older age?

  28. Sam,

    From a rational viewpoint – Do you think you’ll recoup the upfront costs of $10,000? If you and your new contacts can mutually help each other where you can get the $10k back, then I say go for it. I think that’s an opportunity that many people don’t have and it could give you an edge.

    There are certainly other, more personal factors and preferences you have to consider, but I think looking at the costs vs payoff is a valid concern.

    Another consideration that Craig points out is the peer pressure from the club, would your lifestyle inflate to keep up with the club or do you think you could handle it reasonably?

    Great question Sam- it’s a wonderful way to start the morning! :D

    1. Hi Elle, thanks for your thoughts. I really do belied in the long run, there are potentially tremendous business synergies which can be had with relationships that will be cultivated. Many of the members are founders and CEOs of organization which could really help along the way. Could actually help propagate the Yakezie Scholarship initiative too! Who knows, but the potential is there.

      I don’t think I’ll ever great crazy with my money with my relatively frugal upbringing. I still drive Moose, which is almost 11 yrs old for example!

  29. I personally could not join, but that is because of my life-long resentment toward ‘exclusivity’. Growing up without much, I have always resented the ability for people to buy their way into things. I know this is my own personal prejudice, but I have always hated the kids that felt superior because their parents are wealthy, and I am betting that the children of these members are exactly those kids.

    This process sounds like a rich version of high school where all the popular kids decide if you are good enough to join their clique, except you have to pay for it.

    I understand you could make great connections at the club, but I personally could not do it. But take my opinion with a grain of salt because I have about 3 tons of baggage that affect my viewpoint.

    To make connections, I would rather join the board of a volunteer organization or something that usually attracts other high-level individuals and do something good while making my connections. (If such a thing exists where you live.)

    1. Great tip on saving money and making new connections! I’ll look into that.

      You must have had quite an interesting experience growing up. I’d be interested in reading a post that talks about your feelings against these cliques and clubs. Would be fascinating! I take it you aren’t buying your daughter a brand new VW Jetta? All the rich female kids had em! Guys had new SUVs.

      1. Well, I did not have it as bad as many, but it definitely left its mark on me. We didn’t even really have rich kids where I grew up, they were more what you would define as middle class, but you would think they lived in a mansion. (Although some of these kids actually had a second story on their house, and that was fancy livin’.

        It wasn’t that I was excluded or anything. I think a lot of my perspective comes from growing up in a poorer area that is surrounded by other wealthy cities. College is where I saw a lot of the entitlement, because some people did have real money there. You could say sororities were not my thing…

        No new car for any child of mine. They will be driving the safest vehicle I can find, no matter how ugly!

        1. Gotcha. Definitely give your kids the UGLIEST, but safest car you can find. No entitlements!

          Funny you talk about sororities, since it doesn’t take being wealthy to be in a sorority…………. or fraternity…..

  30. craig gonzales

    sam-

    do you care about the new network of friends? what will happen to your old network of friends?

    are you easily influenced? will the older, richer people have toys that you shouldn’t buy but will because of the jones’?

    i would join if i really wanted to join. do you really want to join or is it peer pressure and an inflated sense of self-worth?

    do you think you can get new clients from the social club?

    cg

    1. Tell me more about this inflated sense of self worth you speak of. I’m interested to learn more about this angle you speak of.

      Friends aren’t mutually exclusive. That’s just silly.

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