Right before negotiating my severance in 2012, I wondered whether I should get a Ph.D. After 13 years in the private sector, I thought it would be nice to switch things up. Besides, if I got my Ph.D., I could demand people call me doctor, just like how our incoming First Lady demands to be called Dr. Jill Biden!
It is absolutely fine to request people address you as doctor if you have a Ph.D. or Ed.D.. Whether people comply with your request is another matter. Only around four percent of Americans have obtained a Ph.D. Therefore, people who have gone through the rigorous process of getting a Ph.D. deserve respect.
I’d like to think that if I got a Ph.D., I would play it cool and tell people, “Just call me Sam.” After all, I’m not only a believer in stealth wealth, but stealth education as well.
For a better life, it’s better to pretend you are dumber than you really are. Otherwise, people are going to expect a lot from you. They may ask you a lot of questions and constantly challenge you as well.
Time is our most precious asset. The dumber you appear, the more time you will have to do as you wish. Trust me on this. I have all the time in the world and it still doesn’t feel like enough!
Here was my thought process about getting a Ph.D.. I’ll go through the pros and cons of getting a Ph.D. From there, you can make your own decision on whether it’s worth getting this degree or not.
Should I Get A Ph.D.?
Did you know that Ph.D. stands for Doctor of Philosophy? Philosophy refers to the original Greek meaning “love of wisdom.” How appropriate a term to describe one that spends years beyond college to gain more knowledge.
Since 2000, the number of people with master’s and doctoral degrees has doubled. The number of people age 25 and over whose highest degree was a master’s has doubled to 21 million. And the number of doctoral degree holders has more than doubled to 4.5 million.
About 13.1 percent of U.S. adults have an advanced degree today, up from 8.6 percent in 2000.
After intense focus on making money in banking for 13 years, in 2012, I got sick of it. Instead, I wanted to focus my attention on learning something new. I started Financial Samurai in 2009. Therefore, I thought there may be some synergies in getting a Ph.D. in communications.
At the core of any doctoral program is conducting research and publishing. What better platform to conduct research and publish than with one’s own website?
A key reason why I loved getting my MBA part-time for three years was that I didn’t have to worry about getting good grades. I already had the “dream job” many MBA grads aspired to have – working as a VP at a major investment bank. Going to graduate school was purely for the sake of learning and meeting interesting people in new fields.
Once you make enough money to feel comfortable, making more money no longer becomes as interesting. What becomes more interesting is self-actualization.
Benefits Of Getting A Ph.D.
Besides being able to harness a Communications Ph.D. to help develop my online business, there are other benefits of getting a Ph.D. as well.
1) Credibility
Anybody who goes to school for this long has to know something. If you have a Ph.D., you should be an expert in your field of study. With credibility comes respect. With respect comes a better sense of well-being in Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs.
It really does take at least 10 years of working on your craft to gain true credibility. Think about how you may have felt impostor syndrome working in your 20s. It probably wasn’t until your early 30s that you felt more secure.
Before getting to my 10-year Financial Samurai anniversary in July 2019, I never felt comfortable being described as an expert in personal finance or online media. But now, I feel I have the credibility to confidently share my thoughts on the best course of action without apology. The proof is in the lemon meringue pie.
If you spend 10 years after high school furthering your education, you will have tremendous credibility.
2) Prestige And Status
Everybody enjoys a little bit of prestige here and there. Prestige is why within the first minute of meeting someone new, you’ll always know where every private university grad went to school. They’ll voluntarily tell you!
The only reason why things are prestigious, however, is due to scarcity. For example, there’s only one President of The United States. Therefore, he has a lot of prestige.
According to the latest US Census, only about 13.1% of the American population has a Master’s Degree or higher (up from 8.6 percent in 2000). Further, only about 4% of the population has a doctoral degree (up from 2% in 2000).
You may not get rich with a doctorate degree. But with a Ph.D., you will belong to the highest social circles as part of the elite class! You can force everyone to address you as doctor all the time. It is your right!
3) Opportunity
Once you get your Ph.D. you will likely have more opportunities. These opportunities come in the form of consulting, publishing, and speaking. As an expert in your field, large corporations could hire you as a consultant to provide insight into a business venture.
With a Ph.D., publishers will have more confidence in signing you to write bestselling book. Visiting professorships are also more readily available if you have a Ph.D. In addition, company Boards always need some Ph.D.s to create at least the illusion of credibility to investors.
4) Education
Education is one of the most important assets. The things we learn amount to grains of sand in an hourglass. There is so much more to learn.
If you are a true “lover of wisdom”, then I suspect you will enjoy getting a Ph.D. Furthermore, most reputable Ph.D. programs I know pay their students a stipend.
Related: What If You Go To Harvard And End Up A Nobody?
5) Community
I don’t know about you, but I loved my time in college. The college community is wonderful because everybody is there to learn, support, and nurture.
Universities exist to test wild hypotheses in a relatively judgmental free environment. Surrounding yourself with highly educated people can be very rewarding because they will challenge you on your own thinking.
If you become a professor, you will walk around campus as a respected citizen by the thousands. I might even get your own parking spot and free meal voucher. can you imagine go to work every day and feeling the love and respect from so many people?
Look at how Sam Bankman-Fried’s parents, both Stanford professors, are able to live in a $4 million primary residence and buy a $16 million vacation property in the Bahamas! Surely they wouldn’t throw away their careers and status by doing something illegal at their age.
6) Achievement
When I graduated from college in 1999, I felt an incredible sense of achievement. I also swore never to go back until the 2000-2003 downturn happened.
When I graduated from business school in 2006, I once again experienced a feeling like no other. My father, girlfriend, and a good friend attended my graduation ceremony.
Today, I am a champion for everyone getting as much education as possible. Education is what will help set you free.
I did not understand the benefits of education until I got some myself. Making money is one thing, but achieving the highest level of education possible may be an even more rewarding accomplishment.
In fact, spending two years writing and editing my Wall Street Journal bestseller, Buy This Not That, provided a tremendous sense of accomplishment. The process felt like I was getting a Ph.D!
7) Potentially Higher Income
People with Ph.Ds tend to earn a higher income on average. Further, they tend to have more job stability in a crisis.
Below are the latest statistics pre-pandemic from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Of course, the income doesn’t take into consideration the length it takes to get a Ph.D.
The Cons Of Getting A Ph.D.
Although there are many benefits of getting a Ph.D., there are also several significant negatives. Here are some to consider.
1) Delayed retirement
The more time you spend getting an education, the likely later you will get to retire. After all, you want to work for as long as possible to make your Ph.D. worthwhile. Personally, I feel blessed to have fake retired at age 34 in 2012. Having full control over my schedule is wonderful.
I have a friend who is 34 years old. He is just starting his second, one-year fellowship in medicine at Cornell Hospital in NYC. Granted, he’s been making about $60,000 a year as a resident. But that’s nothing compared to the 16 years he’s spent studying, interning, and paying tuition after high school!
At 35 years old, he will likely make around $300,000 – $400,000 as a specialized cardiologist. That’s great money, however, he’s just starting his career while I had just retired. Furthermore, not all doctors will make as much money starting out. Certainly not Doctors in Communication.
You must be sure that what you are getting your Ph.D. in is exactly what you want to do for decades. With a Ph.D., it is highly unlikely you will be able to retire at the ideal age of 45. you will want to work for much longer to get a greater return on your education.
I think the better strategy is to become financially independent first and then get your Ph.D. This way, you are truly learning for the love of knowledge, not money.
2) A Ph.D. will test your will and patience
I know about five Ph.D. candidates who never finished because they gave up halfway! Or they are simply taking their sweet time. Some are in their 7th or 8th year in a supposed 5-year program.
One Ph.D. candidate I know is going to school because she doesn’t know what to do. She has a trust fund and decided why not learn while she figures out life given she has the financial means. Other candidates gave up midway and decided to just get a Master’s Degree instead. If you’re going to do anything, you better do it right.
3) Big opportunity cost
Some believe with ever-rising tuition, college itself is an expensive opportunity cost. Can you imagine spending another five+ years of your life after college to get your Ph.D.? During this time, you’ll have made no real money. Further, you will not have gained any real-world work experience.
During your energetic 20s, you could have started a company, gotten promoted multiple times, and traveled the world multiple times over.
Think about how many exciting things have happened over the past decade. Getting a Ph.D. could really crimp your lifestyle. You may experience a tremendous amount of FOMO as your peers make lots of money and do new and exciting things.
The fear of missing out is why I decided to get my MBA part-time. There was so much going on in the Asian region that I didn’t want to skip a thing.
4) Bad for those who die young
If you so happen to die earlier than the median life expectancy, your return on investment for getting a Ph.D. decreases. I clearly remember when the admissions director asked me in my MBA interview why I wanted to get my MBA so early (I was 24). I replied, “Because I know what I want to do, and want to leverage my MBA degree for as long as possible.”
If you get your Ph.D. at 30 and die at 40, what a shame! If you knew you were going to die at 40, you would have spent all your time after high school doing everything you’ve wanted to do.
Who knows when we will die, but if you’re an unhealthy person, perhaps maximizing fun-time is better than spending another 4-5 years after college to get your doctorate degree.
In addition, getting a Ph.D. and then not using it because you switched fields or retired early is also a suboptimal use of education and time.
The Ideal Ph.D. Candidate
If you decide that getting a Ph.D. is right for you, then your biggest hurdle is getting in. You must get great grades and test scores, otherwise, you have no chance. If you still want to get a Ph.D., here are some things that will make you an ideal candidate.
Research and Academia
It is generally frowned upon to get your Ph.D. and go work in the private sector. Getting your Ph.D. for the sake of making money is a no-no after speaking to admissions directors, professors, and Ph.D. students.
Remember, Ph.D. = Doctor of Philosophy = “Love Of Wisdom”. The ideal candidate is fully dedicated to staying in the field of academia upon graduation. He or she enjoys conducting research in their field and teaching. None of this work is traditionally lucrative.
Have a Clear Vision
You must want to know what you don’t know yet. A Ph.D. is the absolute specialization in a particular field. Without an intense interest in a particular field of study, you won’t be able to last through the program.
If you are getting a Doctorate in Philosophy, hopefully, you have read countless philosophy books and have written numerous papers on the subject already.
If you are getting a Doctorate in Music Theory, hopefully, you play several instruments and are a lover of music. Once your interests are aligned, you should have a vision of what you want to do with your Ph.D. Ask yourself, what problems or mysteries do I want to solve?
Perhaps the ideal Ph.D. candidate is one who has already experienced over a decade in the private sector. Therefore, he or she has the perspective to make a better decision about getting a Ph.D. It’s really hard to know exactly what you want to do during your undergraduate studies.
Real-life Application Of A Ph.D.
Instead of accepting students with the highest test scores into a doctoral program, doctoral programs should accept more students who have more real-life experience. Being smart is one thing. Being able to apply your Ph.D. in the real world is what makes getting a Ph.D. most useful.
Think about hard problems, such as cutting down traffic accidents with self-driving cars, flying to outer space, or coming up with a coronavirus vaccine. If getting a Ph.D. can help you solve these problems, then by all means get one!
If your Ph.D. doesn’t do much to improve the state of humanity, perhaps don’t get one. We all want to do something that has meaning.
Not Getting A Ph.D. Was Fine
At the end of the day, I decided that getting a Ph.D. was not for me. It would have been a great bucket list item to achieve. However, I decided to focus my time after the private sector on traveling, writing, and now being a father.
Further, I decided to fulfill my desire for teaching by being a high school tennis coach for three years. It was a great experience that ended with us winning back-to-back Northern Conference Sectional Championships.The school had never won one before, let alone two NCS titles in its history.
I truly respect those who have gotten a Ph.D. Not only were they smart enough to get into a doctoral program, but they also had enough grit and intelligence to make it through.
A Ph.D. just wasn’t right for me. But a Ph.D. could very well be right for you! Instead of getting a Ph.D., I’ve decided to pursue my career as an author instead.
I’ve written consistently on Financial Samurai since 2009. I published a severance negotiation book. Now, I traditionally publishing a book with Penguin Random House without a Ph.D and it became a bestseller. I didn’t need a Ph.D to get ahead. But the degree would still be nice to have.
Any readers out there with a Ph.D.? How was your experience getting one? What other pros and cons are there of getting a Ph.D.? Do you request others to call you doctor? What are your thoughts on non-medical doctors requesting to be called doctors?
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I agree with most of what is stated, but will add my personal experience. I’m about midway through a PhD at the moment (over all the big hurdles), and feel it has been a great experience. Of course, if you had asked me how it was going at various points over the past two years, the answer you would receive would likely vary a lot. It’s going to have its highs and lows.
I decided to go back to school for two primary reasons. 1) I hated all the traveling I was doing for my prior job and knew I wanted to pursue something else. 2) I always enjoyed the environment academia offered and really wanted to be a professor.
Obviously this comes at a bit of a cost given that you’ll probably put in crazy amounts of time while getting paid 20-30k per year by whatever university you’re at, but you’ll honestly learn so much at a very rapid pace. It can be very rewarding at times.
Additionally, if your goal is to become a university professor (encouraged by the doctoral programs), you may have the potential for a very comfortable life; however, this will depend highly upon what your degree is in. If it’s a PhD in philosophy, your career prospects might not be great whereas if it’s a PhD in accounting, you’ll likely do relatively well. That being said, if you truly are a lover of wisdom, perhaps the amount of digits on your paycheck doesn’t matter that much to you. (I care about both)
I personally feel the lifestyle of the university professor is great. You get paid to research topics that are interesting to you and to show up and talk to a classroom of young adults for a handful of hours each week. Granted this may take a fair amount of effort, but it will seem worth it if you’re passionate about your field. Oh, and your colleagues are generally pretty bright too.
Thanks for your feedback. The lifestyle does sound pretty good. Please let us know when you’re done with your PhD and let us know what you will be doing after.
But here’s the thing about being paid to research what you like. In academia, it’s “publish or perish”. And you are usually expected to teach, advise students, serve on committes, and assimilate yourself into the “cuture” of the place. So it’s not all “just me and my books.”. Oh yes, and you will most definitely be expected to write grants. You have to bring money into the university, a lot of which you will not see. You will have to do a lot of brown nosing to not only keep your position, but to climb the ladder. In academia, it’s “up or out”. You don’t get to just exile yourself to a dark corner and do your research. You will have to take a side in the politics of the place. If you don’t, you will be looked down on as lacking ambition. So, contrary to what they depict in fiction, the life of an academic is not laid back. At least, not in the U.S. The easygoing professor who never seems to worry about anything is a relic of the past. Now your average professor (tenured or not) will be a stressed out basket case. Probably on three or more blood pressure meds. That’s the world you’re going into. Are you sure you’re still up for it?
Hi Everyone,
It is my pleasure to see such a great comments. I need your help. I am 41 years old. I did business for 14 years. I had money but lost almost all because of wrong bad investment. Since 2010 I have been teaching fulltime in College and University as an Adjunct professor of Computer and Engineering field. I have Master Degree from Pace University and I can do my Doctorate Degree from same University.Also teach certification courses. Now I have to decide should I go for Dr Degree or not. I have over 50 certifications in IT field including MCT,MCSE,CCAI,CCNP,CCDP,NCDA,VCA,VCP,A+N+S+. Now if I do doctorate degree it will take another 3 years from my life but I will be able to get fulltime professor jobs at any University when I will be 44. If I only teach certification courses I do not need Dr Degree but I can make more money. The doctorate degree would cost $66,000 USD.
What a great post and comments, thank you all for sharing your experiences. I would really appreciate if you could share your thoughts with me about if it’s the right decision or not to get my PHD.
I have an master already and I’m now 29 years old, I have my own business going with my salary about 10,000 USD a month, it’s an online business with 15 employees and I only spend max of 3 hours a day on it, and I’m planning to improve it, So I’m financially stable;
I’m offered a scholarship somewhere in Asia, as well as $1500 monthly stipend, to do my Phd in a field , business, that I like but I’m not sure if I really want to do Phd on. I don’t wanna teach in university one day but I would like to share my thoughts and knowledge in weekly lectures etc. i don’t like commitment and office job!
I wanna get a Phd for the title only, and make my mom and my love ones happy and proud. I think it’s a nice achievement. But I don’t think I will be able to study hard or spend more than 2/3 hours a day on my Phd. Is that reasonable? I’m not really sure if I should go for it or not .. I don’t like to work hard that’s my nature, and try to avoid under pressure for health reasons.
BTW, my Father is a wealthy man, meaning really wealthy, not saying I depends on him by any mean as I don’t get any financial help from him since I was 20 as we don’t get a long that much.
Hi All,
This is a subject that is very near and dear to my heart. Pursuing a PhD has been a life goal of since I was a kid. As a 34 old with an MBA I have no illusions about what it takes to get a PhD, and I still want to do it. Specifically I plan on getting a PhD in Economics because it is the most fascinating subject in the world to me, with psychology being a distant yet related second.
Since you have technically entered your early retirement I think there are really two options to pursue. The entrepreneurial route as you describe, or the academic route. I do believe you can do both. I think the strongest argument for doing the PhD now is that you get more usage out of it now versus getting it later in life.
The flip side is, as you know, if the motivation isn’t there then its probably not going to be worth it in the long run. If youre like me at all, you just want a challenge. Do them both if you can, but if not just enjoy life.
Jeremy
I wonder if a PH.d is for me. I have my masters degree in Criminal Justice with a dual specialization in Forensic Psychology and Forensic Science with some student loan debt. I plan to work in academia when I retire (I’m 26) but I have been mulling over the opportunity for a PH.d at this time. Would it benefit me in my career endeavors? Probably not. The criminal justice realm mostly relies on experience and not so much education. I wonder what is your perspective? Would it benefit me at this age to go ahead and push through so that when I retire I can reap the benefits of an advanced degree? Or will I be able to market successfully my attributes with a masters degree alone?
Hi Sam,
Long time reader of your blog and I have to say, looking at the comments, I couldn’t help but chime in with my $0.02.
I’m a first generation immigrant, 26 y/o, did my bachelors in engineering (biotech) abroad before I joined a PhD program in Biochemistry here. Right now I’m in my 5th year (general duration of grad studies for my lab is around 6.5 – 7 years) and hope to be done next year.
IF you’re going for a doctoral degree ( from the last couple of your comments, I got the feeling you were opting out), I would recommend looking at the faculty who you want as your advisor instead of the school. A lot of great schools have crap faculty, though the inverse is not always the case. Your PI / advisor ( and to some extent your dissertation committee) is really the only person who has control over your doctoral study, and its excruciatingly important you find one with whom you gel. Everything else is quite frankly irrelevant or will be taken care of.
What I found most interesting is the accuracy of comments that have been provided by people who actually HAVE a PhD, vs, those from people who would like to have one. This is quite common – non PhDs either treat PhDs with contempt or respect – kinda like Korean car styling – you either love em or you hate em – there’s no middle ground there, and you would hardly take advice on gold smithing from a blacksmith would you ? It sounds clique-y but it is quite true.
My humble advice to you would be to do a get a PhD only if you feel there is a benefit to it. Just like getting into an MBA program, do a cost/benefit analysis – will your PhD really be worth it ? I say this because if a PhD in communications is anything like doing a PhD in the sciences, then getting a PhD just because you want to learn is an utterly lousy reason to get the degree. IMHO, the only reason you should get a PhD are –
1. the advanced degree opens job doors for you
2. you would like to stay in academia,
of which only the 2nd point has some passing commonality with your reasons as I understood.
Pros of getting a PhD (my views may be biased towards the experiences I have as a science PhD candidate – this might not be applicable wholly for other fields, especially those that do not deal with a lot of experimentation)
1. You learn to analyse stuff really quickly
2. You learn to defend your arguments cogently
3. You learn to learn & pick up your pieces from DAILY defeats instead of bawling your eyes out
4. Teaches you tenacity. Look at point 3
5. If you apply yourself it actually changes the way you think about everything. Not in a metaphysical manner, but in a real life application, day to day manner.
6. you get to interact with really REALLY intelligent people, often leaving you feeling like a fake, or at the very least humbled.
7. Instills a really strong work ethic
8. If you can spin your recently gained soft skills right, you can land a job virtually anywhere.
9. You learn how to negotiate with someone who holds all the cards while you hold none.
10. Day to day BS doesn’t fool you most of the time. Refer to point 1
Cons –
1. Are you really willing to forego having a social life ?
2. You must be willing to be ground down under the deluge of negative data, or stuff just not working for you. My PI’s most accomplished PhD graduate published his 400 page thesis, and all of the work he published could be done in 1.5 years. He spent a grand total of 7 years in the program. Where did the rest 5.5 years go ? – Negative/Incomprehensible data, stuff not working, hypothesis’ failing the test, and just plain bad luck. Contrast the amount of ‘good’ data to the amount of ‘bad’ data, and you will see why grad students are perpetually grumpy
3. I’ll repeat the 2nd point again, since very few seem to appreciate it. You WILL be ground down under the deluge of negative data. Ultimately the only things that will keep you going are your work ethic, discipline and doggedness.
4. You are EVERYBODY’s bitch. EVERYBODY’s -starting from the dean, right down to the post-docs in your lab. The situation improves slightly once you’ve gained some seniority, but you’re still someone’s whipping boy.
5. Pay that is just above the poverty line – officially classifying you as slightly better off than food stamp material but still thoroughly unable to afford anything great. In some Uni’s the pay situation is better than most though
All in all, while the long term benefits are there, you pay a very dear price in terms of time, effort, and mental peace to achieve those dreams.
Lastly, apologies for the long post and slightly arrogant tone at the beginning.
Regards,
Sam
Thanks for your perspective! Being “everybody’s bitch” doesn’t sound too appealing at my age (37). As a result, I think you’ve definitely convinced me NOT to do it. It’s OK to be a bitch boy in your 20s, but in your mid to late 30s you tend to want to naturally be your own man.
You only become “everybody’s bitch” if you have no backbone–and even then it’s not all that dramatic (academic environments are very collaborative, at least in my experience). As a mid 30s man, you will be just fine. You may feel like you are at the bottom rung of the ladder sometimes, as many people around you are seasoned PhDs and post-docs, but people tend to be very respectful. If they don’t seem that way, find a different lab. Most of the cons Sam cites are completely exaggerated and are reminiscent of stereotypes perpetuated in our society about what getting a PhD is like.
I would consider searching further and wider for perspectives and talk to some people in academia, in industry with a PhD, and wherever else you can find PhDs in the fields you are interested in to get their two cents. The commenter above seems cynical (most likely due to nearing the end of their PhD–things probably seem a little darker during this year or two time frame).
You cite many pros of getting a PhD but strictly say it’s only for people who want to stay in Academia. That is simply not true and unsupported by data. People who want to work in all sorts of fields, including business, can benefit from getting a PhD. The benefits you list are ubiquitously important in many technical and problem solving careers, and I don’t think most high-profile employers would scoff at having spent 5 years or more honing your critical thinking and problem solving skills. Yes, industry experience is important, but having shown the potential to be a high-level expert in a field is attractive to many employers as well. The paradigm that a PhD is strictly for entry into academic areas is fading very quickly.
https://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2012/08/what_is_the_value_of_a_science_phd_is_graduate_school_worth_the_effort_.html#
I also was accepted to enroll in phd program in computer science. I never liked coding but I learned it and have a master degree Iam 41 with two kids and the age thing makes me think twice if I should start the phd this fall. The college offered scholarship that covers 85% of tuition but I have to have 15 credit every semester full time. Currently i am not working so phd will not make me miss any work, but I am not sure what to do. Should I go for it and become a “Dr” and struggle to make it happen or should I just shut up and go on with life as is and worry about other things in my life and family. I will be 45 or 46 when I finish that is if,,at that age I cant start new thing we only have one shot in life and timing is the essence, I should have done phd in my twenties or early thirties now it is not that time.
“I never liked coding, but…” is your answer. If you get a Ph.D, get it in something related and make it something you want. I’m going through the same type of thing, and have over 20 years in a career that was my third choice…why get a doctoral in that? I’m leaning back to my original interests or at least finding a way to combine the expertise with something more important to me.
Computer science is a much bigger field than merely coding, even bigger than computers. There are huge essential fields within computer science where programming is not even required. In any case, coding wouldn’t really be your focus in a PhD program – even if you focus on software engineering, most of what you do will be doing is at a much higher level. Similarly, I have had math professors (at an ivy league top 10 math department) who despise and are terrible at doing calculations, but are at the very top of the field. Or perhaps in the same way that even the greatest novelists can be terrible spellers.
However, I agree with the usual criteria, you should only get a phd if 1) you love what you are studying so much you would pay to do it (because, even on a full scholarship, given the opportunity cost, you ARE paying to do it). 2) it is a professional requirement. ….i would personally add 3) if you simply have no better options AND it is a fully funded program, with a living stipend, in a field that is interesting to you, in demand (computer science, economics, etc…) and you like doing academic stuff, then it is obviously a reasonable life choice.
I am 37 yrs old, and I would like to go back to the grad school shortly for Ph.D program, and I know it isn’t easy especially for whom has a family and full time secure job . What I say is may ALLAH helps me to making the right step for my family and me :)
Good luck! I hope you have a lot saved and get into a good program. Just mentally think 7 years of school and you should be good!
after a year, i decided to drop out of my phd program.
i have a masters and for what i do, there was no real benefit to getting one.
i DON’T want to spend my life in academia.
i did a little video with my reasons why.
I am 30yrs old with a masters, and I want a PH.D… I’m hesitant because of the test, evaluations, more student loans, and etc… The bright side is my tenacity to learn and the hope that life will turn out exactly as it should, based on a series of decisions I made, based on my past experiences.
Before you throw in the towel, here’s my story. I’m 59, and I just passed the oral defense of my dissertation one week ago (Feb. 21, 2014). I started back to grad school in 2009 when I was 55. I went back for three reasons: 1) as a black man with exceptional intellectual ability and academic records, I have always felt that I owed it to myself and the Black community to be the best that I can be; 2) I am not financially wealthy, and a teaching job, which I am positive I can get, eventually, will suit me fine as a retirement gig; and 3) I want the permanent name change and recognition that comes with the title of Doctor of Philosophy.
I was accepted at one of the most prestigious UC schools in California, and was offered a four year fellowship. Mind you, I only applied to ONE school! If you are good in your verbal skills, focus on that. Most graduate schools want to see a combined score on your verbal and math, but if you are applying for a degree in the social sciences or humanities, they will mainly pay attention to those verbal scores. With two weeks to study for the GRE, I was able to score at the 94% level, higher than required for Harvard, Princeton or Yale, or any institution for that matter! My math score was around 20%, but no one cared! I had a combined score of over 1000 points, and in 2009, that was the bogey, above which the breakdown didn’t matter.
The biggest hurdle in the program was passing the Written Qualifying Exam (WQE), which is offered once every six months. I failed that exam twice. I was given one more chance to pass, and I passed with the highest score possible. My writing had improved that much. As if that were not enough, I caught up with my cohort, many of whom had passed on the first try, and I raced to complete my dissertation. Needless to say, I am the FIRST in my cohort who has fully completed the program, and has been conferred with the coveted title of Doctor of Philosophy. It’s one week later, and I am still floating on air. Google “calidoscopio brooklyn handicap” if you want to see the outcome of the most amazing horse race ever, and see how it all fits together with this discussion.
I may be flat broke for the moment, but I have complete Faith that all of this effort was not in vain. I see plenty of opportunities for work, and I am applying for both postdoc and regular jobs. I am going at the job search with the same intensity that I went for the PhD, and I Will absolutely succeed. I am in excellent health, not overweight, and still look, feel and communicate like a much younger person. I have had that corner office and those six figure jobs, but I do really need all that at my age? If I return to that level of income fine. If not, fine. I live for the enjoyment of life, which is fleeting, and money is only a small part of that equation.
In June, I will don the monastic garb that is academic regalia, and I will be hooded (crowned as I see it) in one of the grandest edifices in all of the academic world. It will feel like a coronation. My school is known for its excellence in every corner of the globe, and I will forever be associated with that institution as a graduate at the highest level. I should also mention that I obtained a Masters degree in 2012 as part of the doctoral program, so should all else fail, I have a professional certificate.
In closing, I can tell you that my wife, who has been my co-collaborator in this effort, is soooo very proud of me. She has sacrificed from day one, and never wavered in her belief that this was the right thing to do, for both of us. When it’s all said and done, the three letters behind my name on my tombstone will be, PhD. For now, we’ll settle for Dr. and Mrs. This is a legacy that is priceless!!!
Greetings Visual Theorist!!
Congrats on your recent acquiring of a PhD degree. I am finishing my Master’s degree from the University of San Francisco (MPA program), and I’m ecstatic. I was mulling the idea of continuing forward to obtain my PhD. I’m 47 years old with two small children, so I’m no spring chicken. Your post is quite compelling……..
Thank you!!
Go for it! You have already accomplished financial independence.
I am currently working full time and getting two Masters at the same time. I’m learning biomedical engineering and MBA. However, I want to learn more and get my PhD in bioengineering or stem cell research but fear that in doing so, I will decrease my financial prowess substantially. I wish I was in your shoes where I am not tied down to earning money but could focus solely on understanding on how things work.
Thanks but I’ve decided not too. I talked to so many grumpy PhD grads and students!
Besides, I’ve got to get into a program first :)
Love the article. So, you really are not going for the degree? I finished my Masters a few years ago and am working now. Spouse and I tried to get into programs (at the height of the recession) and didn’t get in. As soon as I decide that I will stop dreaming and grow up, my spouse says, let’s try again. WHAT!?! We have four kids (one who is a genius, and one with a mild disability), what are we going to do in a phd program? I might finally get a raise and you want to turn our lives upside down and inside out. Well, of course I’m greedy and can’t resist the thought of having financial security for us and being an example to the rest of our family, but… Can we really do it? We currently work in higher ed, and both have Master’s so we know plenty of PhD’s and they are all like, do it, it would be great, you’ll do fine. They also try to tell us how difficult it will be but that we can get through it. So I guess I’m just ranting (now I’ll get back to work). Thanks for your article, loved the comments, I don’t feel as weird about being old and going back as I did before.
Hi Sam,
I was an accountant for 16 years and every day at 3 pm I would stand from my chair stretch and say something like “I am a genius but only my mother knows it” meaning I shouldn’t be there. At age 41 returned to school just to refresh in chemistry (my real aim). Taking one course at first I ended up 12 years later with a Ph.D. in Biochemistry. I graduated recently. Now I am back to square one at the verge of collecting food stamps, but I know this is temporary. The satisfaction derived from earning it is Nirvana or Heaven on earth, I wouldn’t change it for anything. You have no money problem then let me give you my blessing: “GO FOR IT”
Awesome and congrats on getting the PhD! 12 years is no easy feat! Hope you do something great with it!
Overall, great article! I thoroughly enjoyed the academic insights that you brought to view. As of right I am currently in undergraduate pursuing my BA with two majors: Ethnic Studies and Philosophy with a minor in nonprofit.
It’s only my Sophomore year and already I am researching potential graduate programs all, but I cannot seem narrow down my focus. My older friends, who are upper classmates, tell me that I need not to worry about it. The issue is that I do.
My question is should I go with my passion in academia in order to select my graduate progra?
Focus on what interests you the most! You’ll last longer as a result!
I love the article and the posts. Lots of good information.
At the age of 50 I decided to get my degree in Music. I had grown up in a family of musicians/entertainers and had performed in lounges and at festivals most of my adult life. I also love to write music and believe that I’m pretty good at it.
Actually, life gave me an opportunity to go back to school. In 2009, my husband and I went several months with no income. We were both self-employed and we ended up homeless with two teenagers, a very large dog, 3 parakeets, and a goldfish. After a few months we finally applied for foodstamps. They told us that they could help us get a job or go to school. Well, jobs were not to be found at that time, especially with us being self-employed and more mature, and we jumped at the chance to go to school.
Well, we are in our 4th year of college and I will have my bachelors in Spring 15, at the age of 55. I am determined to continue and get my masters and hopefully my doctorate by the time I’m 60. Oh, the concentration will be composition. I intend to make a living writing music of all sorts. I want the doctorate because of the doors it will open for me and the connections I will make. I know it won’t guarantee success – that’s up to me – but not only will it open doors, I should have crazy good skills by the end of it.
I just thought you were soliciting reasons why people were getting – or not getting – their Ph.D’s, and wanted to include my story. Unlike some of the other commenters, my parents did not even finish high school and I will be the only one in my family – including cousins and aunts and uncles – who will have their bachelors.
It will have taken 5 years to get my bachelors, and another 2 years for my masters. I’m attending CSU Sacramento. We still have one child in high school and so we are not planning to relocate for a few years. I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to get my doctorate at USC or UCLA in composition. Only time will tell…..
Great stuff! Glad you can persue your dreams!
On another note, I already have 2 master’s. I’m looking at a 3rd master’s part time. My company would pay for it, and it will improve my skills. :)
I don’t know if a PhD is in the future, but ti definitely is a topic I think about. It’s never too old to get a PhD.
I met a man in his 50s in one of my grad finance classes, and he is now a PhD student!
One of my dreams is to become a professor. One of my dearest professors in college became a professor after being in the industry. He doesn’t have a PhD. He was a senior executive for a private oil company, and decided to retire at 55. The dean of the business school recruited him as a professor part time. Then they hired him full time, and now after 8 years, they asked him to head a program. I think it’s a lot about connections. He was a high ranking executive who brought business experience to the classroom. But he was very well connected!
Hi, I want to do Ph.d but I am confused I am turning 30. If I will start doing Ph.d will it be beneficial or I simply will waste ma time or I am overaged to do the Ph.d. I love Teaching and are experienced also bt I also need to fulfill ma financial liabilities. Please advice. Thanx for this beautiful post.
I am 32 years old and I want to apply for PHD program. I wonder if it is a good decision or not?
I have no paper (I have just 3 papers as co-author, second or third Author). I am so disappointed , because many universities in Europe say that a candidate should be fresh (within 0-4 years from his master). now I am in my 4th year after graduation from master. Your opinions about my chance for finding a position are welcome.
Thanks in advance
Joseph, based on the comments here, the bias seems towards the negative, unless you love to teach, love to learn, and have the finances to support yourself in rough times already.
I read your posting, and had to post a comment. I am 47 years old, and decided to pursue my advanced degrees five years ago, after establishing myself in the music and acting business for twenty-five years. I jumped in with two feet, romanticizing myself into believing that academia would provide me with all the aspects of life my professional artistic career could not; financial and spiritual stability, job security, a “normal” life and potential retirement.
I am about to complete my PhD in Music (Vocal Arts performance), this semester. I have to tell you that pursuing a PhD is a full-time commitment. I have had very little to no social life for the past five years. I am the poorest I’ve ever been, and will be in debt for the rest of my adult life bridled with school loans (I even got scholarships!), and have NO professorship prospects as I prepare to walk down the graduation red carpet in May.
In applying for several music professorships, reality set in, and I, personally, now feel I made the biggest mistake of my life! There is a reason why so few people pursue and complete their doctoral degrees. I persevered, constantly compromised my personal and financial lives, stuck it out, and now, I am just another unemployed PhD competing for a full-time music teaching position in a rancid U.S. economy. And, it stinks!
I am grateful for my prior successful professional career, and the lessons I learned when I was young. I am an innovative and entreupreunerial artist, so I will create something for myself if someone doesn’t hire me, and will get back on my feet, as I can always freelance again in the music and acting world. But, that’s not why I pursued these advanced degrees! Noone tells you this stuff when you apply for graduate school. It’s a scam.
I thought I would get my degree and visualized myself locking in a full-time, tenure track professorship at a university in some lovely, charming small U.S. town at the end of this long road. As I prepare to take my qualifying exams, I am confronted with the old adage that the grass is always greener! I suggest that if you want to learn about the Communications field, find an established mentor for yourself in that field, and go work for him/her. You’ll probably learn more, hands-on, in a shorter amount of time, and still have a life. And, given your business savvy, you may even make some money in the process (even though you don’t need to). Academia? My friend calls it MACADEMIA! Sorry to burst your bubble! Three words of advice; DON’T DO IT!
Ana,
Thank you for your thoughts and advice about getting a PhD! Sorry to hear it has been so rough for you. Perhaps we can look on the bright side, as I always like to do?
* You have a PhD. Well done! Not many people can achieve such heights.
* The PhD was paid for, and provided you income.
* You were already a success in your previous career for 20 years and are an entrepreneurial artist. Perhaps you would have been bored doing the same old thing?
At any rate, I’m strongly leaning against getting a PhD and focusing on fellowship opportunities instead. Hope you stick around and subscribe and share your thoughts.
Best,
Sam
Thanks for your article and all the responses. I appreciate all the input. I’m 52 and just started my MA, intending to go all the way to the PhD in philosophy. Longevity runs in my family so I figure I’ll have a long time to use what I learn and the opportunities the degrees open up. My background is in music and education, including 14 years of homeschooling my kids. I’m in my first semester and while it’s a lot of work I absolutely love it so far.
Get it if you love to learn!!! I am 42 and a single mom. I decided to take some on line classes when I became ill and was off work, just for something to do. I am now finishing my associates degree, and three surgeries, several treatments etc. later I have been released to return to work, but I loved learning so much that I am now moving my family to a new town so that I can attend a University to get my Bachelor’s. I will be going to college with my son!!! But I love it so much that I want to go on to get my MBA and PHD. Yes I am old, and no it probably will not pay off at my age, but it has given me so much joy and pride because I have a 4.0 and my kids got to watch me get inducted into the honor society. It has set a good example for them also. Actually my youngest will graduate at about the same time I finish my PHD.
Good stuff Monica! Love of learning is indeed the main reason to get a PhD.
Best to you!
Hello everyone,
I am working on my M.S. in Environmental Management (2nd semester, 1st year; Concentration in Water Quality and Resource Management) and I am highly contemplating applying for a PhD. I am currently an intern at a lab testing drinking water and I love my job…. to the point that I would love to work there full time for a couple years in a similar job position as I am in currently in. The internship ends in May 2013 since it’ll be 2 years since I worked there (I started the summer of 2011 as a senior in college). I was granted a fellowship which covers my tuition and grants me a stipend and I believe that I can get fellowships to cover the PhD. as well since my foot is already in the door… Additionally, I am starting my master thesis research soon (next summer after I finish in the lab) and that is going to be funded as well. As long as I make a great impression on the principal investigators of the project (one who happens to know me well already as he was my honors thesis mentor in my undergraduate years), they could consider me as a graduate student researcher for the rest of the research (the grant was just approved and the project is 5 years long). I don’t know if I want to continue on to get my PhD. after. It would delay getting married and starting a family… then again I don’t know when that will happen. My only reason to get a PhD. is because I love to teach… Any suggestions?
If you love to teach and love your research, GO FOR IT!
Go get married, and start a family!
Hi guys,
You should seriously and thouroughly evaluate the pros and cons of pursuing a PhD degree. It seems to me that many commentators in this forum paint too rosy a picture. There are advantages in gaining a PhD, but there is clearly also the other side of the medal. I am currently doing a fully funded PhD at an Ivy League university, and the advise I can provide is that you should absolutely try get a realistic and accurate picture what a particular PhD degree involves and what career options it provides. In my oppinion, the comment by SISTAR is a very valid assessment.
Eric, after reading all the feedback and visiting the schools, I personally have decided against a PhD at my age and stage in life. I’m going for a fellowship instead!
Hi
I’m 31 years old and I’m about to do my PhD defense in Intercultural Education tonight. It was my pastor who recommended me to go for a PhD degree; he sees that getting a PhD is beneficial in establishing myself as an authoritative voice in the field. But, I’ve also been contemplating about the question “is it worth it?” for quite some time. There’s no easy answer for me to this. I sometimes struggle when I see my peers already doing well in their career and financially, while I’m still wrestling with papers night after night. I know for certain that in the short run, PhD in education may not mean much in terms of financial gain. But in the long run, perhaps it could help. I’m planning to start a private school, and I think the PhD would help me because of increased credibility that comes with the degree.
It was a good move for me to go back to a full time job as a teacher upon completion of the PhD courses and advancement to candidacy. So I started doing the dissertation while teaching full time. Fortunately also, they promoted me to a management position one year into the job (while my dissertation was still in progress). So I’m thankful that now that I’m graduating, I also have some solid work experience under my belt, and clarity of vision of what I will do next.
I think the most important thing before considering any graduate degree is, like Sam said, a “clear vision.” People who have PhD or multiple masters degree with no clarity of vision will have a hard time getting far in life. I have known a lady who has 3 masters degree, and working as a part time elementary tutor. I also know a person who got a PhD from Germany just for the sake of prolonging her stay in that country. On the other hand, I know a person who has a Master’s degree in sports management, the field that he is very passionate about. Prior to the degree, he already accumulated solid work experience, had a solid vision, and already established the connections. He is now doing very well as an organizer of a national sports league. So, the need for a CLEAR VISION needs underscoring one more time.
Good luck on your PhD journey! I’m curious to know how you found this post? Did it show up on the front page of Google or something? I’ve decided I’m going to pursue a Fellowship instead.
I loved your article. Am 28 years old and from a computer science/software engg background. I recently finished my masters degree in engineering part time (while working as a developer full time) with the initial motive to get a better paying job, but once done with it, I felt a big void in my head – more like the kind of feeling you experience when you run regularly and skip the next 5 days without it! I love learning, not because it can be beneficial for a career, but learning something i didnt know makes my day.
Am thinking of applying for a PhD in engineering with a defined non monetary goal in mind. Problem is, I intend to stay in the private sector because I love what I do. Is it possible to do a PhD along side my job? I am also married – no kids yet, but my wife supports it (at least that what she said :) ).
Appreciate any feedback from your end,
Sandy
Hi Sandy,
I tried looking for part-time PhD programs, but couldn’t find any, at least any reputable ones! Perhaps work until you hate your engineering job so much and THEN get a PhD? All the feedback I got says that getting a PhD doesn’t help you get a great job.
How did you find my article/site btw?
Cheers, Sam
Thanks for the feedback Sam – I got your link from google search,
I forgot the search criteria – i think it was with regards to ‘benefits of phd’.
Sounds good Sandy. Always interesting to how people find my site as it’s been around since 2009. Hope you subscribe and stick around!
I am a master student now. I wanna apply for phd degree in a privileged university. my major is project management. some times I think its better to get master 2 in construction management and for get getting my phd. u know why? because actually I’m not interested in research any more. I think I can earn much money and also I am so tired of studying anymore. I am so confused and can not decide what to do. is here anyone who can help me?
If you are tired of studying, and you want to earn money, don’t get a PhD. Get a PhD for the love of learning. This is the conclusion I’ve come up with.Your energy in your 20’s and 30’s need to be harnessed before it fades!
I just stumbled upon this site and though I would weigh in. I am a CPA, worked may up to a director of finance a private company, then a controller at a public company, then eventually a CFO of a public company. Like many posts on this board, I had a life long ambition of teaching at a university level. So after 17 years in accounting / finance roles, I left my career behind to pursue a PhD, knowing full well that I would never make as much money again, but looking forward to the academic stimulation, shaping student’s lives, etc. I studied for the GMAT, applied to numerous PhD programs, (I chose business management programs), got accepted at 3 or 4 and then proceeded to sell my home, move my family across the country and became a PhD student in business management, with the intention of eventually becoming a professor.
At first, I enjoyed it. I found the courses in business strategy and organizational dynamics stimulating and interesting. However, I found the statistics EXTREMELY hard — and that comes from someone that got A’s in all my math courses through calculus. As time dragged on, I found the emphasis on publishing and research to be overwhelming, stressful and extremely challenging. I have accomplished many challenging things in my career, including leading complex mergers, acquisitions, and even an IPO. Nothing compares to how difficult a PhD program is. It is, by far, the hardest thing I ever have done in my life. The hours are ridiculous, the difficulty level is insane, the expectations are completely unrealistic, and the chance of success if VERY low. In order to get a job as a professor, you must demonstrate your ability to publish prior to graduating (which you have to do in your spare time on top of ridiculous class loads, research assistantships, dissertation, etc.). Only something like 10% of all submissions to top management academic journals are ever accepted and, even then, the process is fraught with politics, pitfalls, hard work, and a LOT of luck. If you are lucky enough to get a journal to actually consider publishing your work, then it still often requires several rounds of critiques, responses to those critiques, and typically, completely rewriting your submission multiple times. The entire process, beginning to end, can take years, and even then, can often result in rejection.
All that being said, tenure track professor jobs in business are not abundant, (at least not at best schools), and even if you are lucky enough to land such a job, then you face 6 to 7 more years (post PhD) of similar lifestyle, (long hours, high expectation for publishing). If you don’t publish, then you will get kicked out and be forced to move to a lower tier school — with the lowest positions at community colleges, etc., where there is no publishing requirements and pay is only slightly higher than high school teachers.
So, long story short. I spent 2 years in a PhD program before I saw the light and realized the the long hours, stress and sacrifice were just not worth it. I have the utmost respect for folks that actually complete a PhD and become a tenured professor, but honestly, for anyone that has already worked in real world for more than 10 years, I’d strongly encourage you to skip the PhD route. It’s a very difficult transition and unless you’re willing to sacrifice 10 years of life and you LOVE to read, write and do statistics all day and all night, don’t do it. By the way, my experience has been that, in general, academics HATE people with real world work experience. Not only is work experience not valued in an academic PhD setting, it is actually frowned upon. I was actually called aside more than once by professors after class and told not to comment about my business experience in class settings because it detracted from the theoretical discussions — I’m not making that up. It is a very frustrating environment for folks with real world work experience.
So, after sacrificing everything to get into a PhD program and spending 2 years in the program, I am dropping out and returning to the “real world” to make a living again as a financial executive. I have never been happier in my life to be out of the PhD program. I am glad I did it just to learn that I did not like it, but I am even happier to be done with it and have my “normal” life back again.
Wow, thank you for your perspective! I believe every word you say and I’ve decided not to get a PhD after visiting a couple programs. Too long, too theoretical, too brutal!
I’m going to apply to a one year fellowship instead. Pays well, short, and practical.
As a fellow executive in finance, do you want to go back to work? What about doing something completely different for work ?
Thx, Sam
I considered all of the same things you just mentioned in your post and decided to not go for a PhD. I have worked full time in my career field for 26 years and I am only 44. I have a graduate degree in administration on top of my work experience. None of that gets me into any of the local university to teach subjects in my career. I would think universities would want a real work experience plus a moderate level of education to teach their students on current issues in the career they want to go in. I am told no each and every time I apply to teach because I don’t have the PhD or ABD. Any thoughts on why?
I get the feeling work experience is frowned upon.
All about the degree baby! Because everybody else went through the pain.
Thanks for posting your feelings on this. My take? Go for it. I recently retired at 48 and after getting a Master’s in Education, and picking up 18 more hours in my CJ, I want to spend the time teaching and bringing the real world and academia into the classroom. In talking to the Dept. Chair and grad coordinator, there are more and more folks who spent time in the private sector in careers and are now coming back to get the final phase of the their education. You won’t be the oldest one in there, nor the youngest, so have a blast!
Jim, thanks for your thoughts! I’m studying for my GREs now and will visit the Stanford campus in October for a full day tour. We’ll see what happens!