Right before negotiating my severance in 2012, I wondered whether I should get a Ph.D. After 13 years in the private sector, I thought it would be nice to switch things up. Besides, if I got my Ph.D., I could demand people call me doctor, just like how our incoming First Lady demands to be called Dr. Jill Biden!
It is absolutely fine to request people address you as doctor if you have a Ph.D. or Ed.D.. Whether people comply with your request is another matter. Only around four percent of Americans have obtained a Ph.D. Therefore, people who have gone through the rigorous process of getting a Ph.D. deserve respect.
I’d like to think that if I got a Ph.D., I would play it cool and tell people, “Just call me Sam.” After all, I’m not only a believer in stealth wealth, but stealth education as well.
For a better life, it’s better to pretend you are dumber than you really are. Otherwise, people are going to expect a lot from you. They may ask you a lot of questions and constantly challenge you as well.
Time is our most precious asset. The dumber you appear, the more time you will have to do as you wish. Trust me on this. I have all the time in the world and it still doesn’t feel like enough!
Here was my thought process about getting a Ph.D. way back when. I’ll go through the pros and cons of getting a Ph.D. From there, you can make your own decision on whether it’s worth getting this degree or not.
Should I Get A Ph.D.?
Did you know that Ph.D. stands for Doctor of Philosophy? Philosophy refers to the original Greek meaning “love of wisdom.” How appropriate a term to describe one that spends years beyond college to gain more knowledge.
Since 2000, the number of people with master’s and doctoral degrees has doubled. The number of people age 25 and over whose highest degree was a master’s has doubled to 21 million. And the number of doctoral degree holders has more than doubled to 4.5 million.
About 13.1 percent of U.S. adults have an advanced degree today, up from 8.6 percent in 2000.
After intense focus on making money in banking for 13 years, in 2012, I got sick of it. Instead, I wanted to focus my attention on learning something new. I started Financial Samurai in 2009. Therefore, I thought there may be some synergies in getting a Ph.D. in communications.
At the core of any doctoral program is conducting research and publishing. What better platform to conduct research and publish than with one’s own website?
A key reason why I loved getting my MBA part-time for three years was that I didn’t have to worry about getting good grades. I already had the “dream job” many MBA grads aspired to have – working as a VP at a major investment bank. Going to graduate school was purely for the sake of learning and meeting interesting people in new fields.
Once you make enough money to feel comfortable, making more money no longer becomes as interesting. What becomes more interesting is self-actualization.
Benefits Of Getting A Ph.D.
Besides being able to harness a Communications Ph.D. to help develop my online business, there are other benefits of getting a Ph.D. as well.
1) Credibility
Anybody who goes to school for this long has to know something. If you have a Ph.D., you should be an expert in your field of study. With credibility comes respect. With respect comes a better sense of well-being in Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs.
It really does take at least 10 years of working on your craft to gain true credibility. Think about how you may have felt impostor syndrome working in your 20s. It probably wasn’t until your early 30s that you felt more secure.
Before getting to my 10-year Financial Samurai anniversary in July 2019, I never felt comfortable being described as an expert in personal finance or online media. But now, I feel I have the credibility to confidently share my thoughts on the best course of action without apology. The proof is in the lemon meringue pie.
If you spend 10 years after high school furthering your education, you will have tremendous credibility.
2) Prestige
Everybody enjoys a little bit of prestige here and there. Prestige is why within the first minute of meeting someone new, you’ll always know where every private university grad went to school. They’ll voluntarily tell you!
The only reason why things are prestigious, however, is due to scarcity. For example, there’s only one President of The United States. Therefore, he has a lot of prestige.
According to the latest US Census, only about 13.1% of the American population has a Master’s Degree or higher (up from 8.6 percent in 2000). Further, only about 4% of the population has a doctoral degree (up from 2% in 2000).
You may not get rich with a doctorate degree. But with a Ph.D., you will belong to the highest social circles. You can force everyone to address you as doctor all the time. It is your right!
Related: The Unhealthy Desire For Money & Prestige Is Ruining Your Life
3) Opportunity
Once you get your Ph.D. you will likely have more opportunities. These opportunities come in the form of consulting, publishing, teaching, and speaking. As an expert in your field, large corporations could hire you as a consultant to provide insight into a business venture.
With a Ph.D., publishers will have more confidence in signing you to write an authoritative book. Visiting professorships are also more readily available if you have a Ph.D. In addition, company Boards always need some Ph.D.s to create at least the illusion of credibility to investors.
4) Education
Education is one of the most important assets. The things we learn amount to grains of sand in an hourglass. There is so much more to learn.
If you are a true “lover of wisdom”, then I suspect you will enjoy getting a Ph.D. Furthermore, most reputable Ph.D. programs I know pay their students a stipend.
Related: What If You Go To Harvard And End Up A Nobody?
5) Community
I don’t know about you, but I loved my time in college. The college community is wonderful because everybody is there to learn, support, and nurture.
Universities exist to test wild hypotheses in a relatively judgmental free environment. Surrounding yourself with highly educated people can be very rewarding because they will challenge you on your own thinking.
6) Achievement
When I graduated from college in 1999, I felt an incredible sense of achievement. I also swore never to go back until the 2000-2003 downturn happened.
When I graduated from business school in 2006, I once again experienced a feeling like no other. My father, girlfriend, and a good friend attended my graduation ceremony.
Today, I am a champion for everyone getting as much education as possible. Education is what will help set you free.
I did not understand the benefits of education until I got some myself. Making money is one thing, but achieving the highest level of education possible may be an even more rewarding accomplishment.
7) Potentially Higher Income
People with Ph.Ds tend to earn a higher income on average. Further, they tend to have more job stability in a crisis.
Below are the latest statistics pre-pandemic from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Of course, the income doesn’t take into consideration the length it takes to get a Ph.D.
The Cons Of Getting A Ph.D.
Although there are many benefits of getting a Ph.D., there are also several significant negatives. Here are some to consider.
1) Delayed retirement
The more time you spend getting an education, the likely later you will get to retire. After all, you want to work for as long as possible to make your Ph.D. worthwhile.
I have a friend who is 34 years old. He is just starting his second, one-year fellowship in medicine at Cornell Hospital in NYC. Granted, he’s been making about $60,000 a year as a resident. But that’s nothing compared to the 16 years he’s spent studying, interning, and paying tuition after high school!
At 35 years old, he will likely make around $300,000 – $400,000 as a specialized cardiologist. That’s great money, however, he’s just starting his career while I had just retired. Furthermore, not all doctors will make as much money starting out. Certainly not Doctors in Communication.
You must be sure that what you are getting your Ph.D. in is exactly what you want to do for decades.
2) A test of will and patience
I know about five Ph.D. candidates who never finished because they gave up halfway! Or they are simply taking their sweet time. Some are in their 7th or 8th year in a supposed 5-year program.
One Ph.D. candidate I know is going to school because she doesn’t know what to do. She has a trust fund and decided why not learn while she figures out life given she has the financial means. Other candidates gave up midway and decided to just get a Master’s Degree instead. If you’re going to do anything, you better do it right.
3) Big opportunity cost
Some believe with ever-rising tuition, college itself is an expensive opportunity cost. Can you imagine spending another five+ years of your life after college to get your Ph.D.? During this time, you’ll have made no real money. Further, you will not have gained any real-world work experience.
During your energetic 20s, you could have started a company, gotten promoted multiple times, and traveled the world multiple times over.
Think about how many exciting things have happened over the past decade. Getting a Ph.D. could really crimp your lifestyle. You may experience a tremendous amount of FOMO as your peers make lots of money and do new and exciting things.
The fear of missing out is why I decided to get my MBA part-time. There was so much going on in the Asian region that I didn’t want to skip a thing.
4) Bad for those who die young
If you so happen to die earlier than the median life expectancy, your return on investment for getting a Ph.D. decreases. I clearly remember when the admissions director asked me in my MBA interview why I wanted to get my MBA so early (I was 24). I replied, “Because I know what I want to do, and want to leverage my MBA degree for as long as possible.”
If you get your Ph.D. at 30 and die at 40, what a shame! If you knew you were going to die at 40, you would have spent all your time after high school doing everything you’ve wanted to do.
Who knows when we will die, but if you’re an unhealthy person, perhaps maximizing fun-time is better than spending another 4-5 years after college to get your doctorate degree.
In addition, getting a Ph.D. and then not using it because you switched fields or retired early is also a suboptimal use of education and time.
The Ideal Ph.D. Candidate
If you decide that getting a Ph.D. is right for you, then your biggest hurdle is getting in. If you are terrible at graduate school exams, you simply might not score high enough to get into a good school or any program.
If you still want to get a Ph.D., here are some things that will make you an ideal candidate.
Research and Academia
It is generally frowned upon to get your Ph.D. and go work in the private sector. Getting your Ph.D. for the sake of making money is a no-no after speaking to admissions directors, professors, and Ph.D. students.
Remember, Ph.D. = Doctor of Philosophy = “Love Of Wisdom”. The ideal candidate is fully dedicated to staying in the field of academia upon graduation. He or she enjoys conducting research in their field and teaching. None of this work is traditionally lucrative.
Have a Clear Vision
You must want to know what you don’t know yet. A Ph.D. is the absolute specialization in a particular field. Without an intense interest in a particular field of study, you won’t be able to last through the program.
If you are getting a Doctorate in Philosophy, hopefully, you have read countless philosophy books and have written numerous papers on the subject already.
If you are getting a Doctorate in Music Theory, hopefully, you play several instruments and are a lover of music. Once your interests are aligned, you should have a vision of what you want to do with your Ph.D. Ask yourself, what problems or mysteries do I want to solve?
Perhaps the ideal Ph.D. candidate is one who has already experienced over a decade in the private sector. Therefore, he or she has the perspective to make a better decision about getting a Ph.D. It’s really hard to know exactly what you want to do during your undergraduate studies.
Real-life Application
Instead of accepting students with the highest test scores into a doctoral program, doctoral programs should accept more students who have more real-life experience. Being smart is one thing. Being able to apply your Ph.D. in the real world is what makes getting a Ph.D. most useful.
Think about hard problems, such as cutting down traffic accidents with self-driving cars, flying to outer space, or coming up with a coronavirus vaccine. If getting a Ph.D. can help you solve these problems, then by all means get one!
If your Ph.D. doesn’t do much to improve the state of humanity, perhaps don’t get one. We all want to do something that has meaning.
Not Getting A Ph.D. Was Fine
At the end of the day, I decided that getting a Ph.D. was not for me. It would have been a great bucket list item to achieve. However, I decided to focus my time after the private sector on traveling, writing, and now being a father.
Further, I decided to fulfill my desire for teaching by being a high school tennis coach for three years. It was a great experience that ended with us winning back-to-back Northern Conference Sectional Championships.The school had never won one before, let alone two NCS titles in its history.
I truly respect those who have gotten a Ph.D. Not only were they smart enough to get into a doctoral program, but they also had enough grit and intelligence to make it through.
A Ph.D. just wasn’t right for me. But a Ph.D. could very well be right for you! Instead of getting a Ph.D., I’ve decided to pursue my career as an author instead.
I’ve written consistently on Financial Samurai since 2009. I published a severance negotiation book. Now, I’m considering traditionally publishing a book with Penguin Random House.
Any readers out there with a Ph.D.? How was your experience getting one? What other pros and cons are there of getting a Ph.D.? Do you request others to call you doctor? What are your thoughts on non-medical doctors requesting to be called doctors?
For more nuanced personal finance content, join 100,000+ others and sign up for the free Financial Samurai newsletter. Financial Samurai is one of the largest independently-owned personal finance sites that started in 2009. Everything is written based off firsthand experience.
Well, the one reason you did not mention is intrinsic motivation.
Sometimes I really regret not staying in academia. I went into industry instead, but if it had been logistically possible (family situations), I would’ve stayed. Research is really exciting! And I think, for many people in academia, the pros are definitely much more valuable than the cons. It really depends on the individual, but a PhD is a long grind and definitely not for the faint-hearted; you learn a completely different set of cut-throat skills spending time among amidst “publish or perish” mentality. But then, the financial sense you blog about is certainly not easy either for those who have different priorities!
Hey Sam, thanks for writing this up.
I am a PhD dropout, and it took me 5 years before I left with only a masters.
I regret it deeply, because now I’m basically a glorified IT guy in the pharmaceutical
industry; and I get to sit by while I watch everyone else do the fun things I’m not qualified to.
Perfect Example: I was furloughed for 7 months when the pandemic hit, despite our company developing the exact cocktail that went into Trump’s arm at Walter Reed.
Because I’m “just an IT guy”… who has literally hundreds of citations across multiple papers and was considered a world expert in my niche.
If you start a PhD in the sciences, you need to finish quick or leave quick. Anything else will ruin your life.
Thanks for sharing your story. May I ask why you didnt keep on going after the fifth year? How many more years would it have taken?
2 parts: timeline uncertainty and lack of clear expectations.
I asked bluntly after my third? year about the timeline to graduation and was told “there is much more we have to do before we can discuss that”. One of his first students spent 9 years, and until I heard him say that to me I thought it was a fluke. He relied on him heavily to build his research program into what it is today, and I became worried that might happen to me.
I was also frequently pulled away from my own work to my colleagues to perform the more technical aspects of analyzing and presenting their results… which was great until I wasn’t listed as an author on a string of papers.
Looking back, I suspect that I was being relied on as a funding source to subsidize everyone else (My grants I wrote during first/second years brought in a combined 750k over their lifetime). But that was not obvious to me at the time.
Darn, feels bad to be used. 9 years would have been so annoying.
Hi Sam, I went through this exact analysis in a span of about 36 hours, 3 days into a PhD program in Clinical Psychology and due to the infrequency of PhDs, there wasn’t a lot of people to seek for advice; however, I was able to call my brother who had just finished his PhD 6 months prior.
So here I was, just moved to another state two weeks prior, sitting in the DMV parking lot telling my wife that I think I made the wrong decision and that something didn’t feel right about committing to school for another 6-7 years at 24-years-old. We worked through many of the same items on your list, she was willing to support whatever decision I made, so the last person to call was my brother.
You can imagine the role model he was for me then (and still is) being 6 years older and just completing his PhD. He was brutally honest and I spent 30 minutes staring out a hotel window in Denver soaking in everything he said. We rehashed a lot of our childhood, growing up and how we both got to where we were at in that very moment, and he reassured me that PhD or not, I was going to be okay. At the end he told me, “No matter what, what you decide is the best decision and I know you will make the best out of it either way.”
So I hung up the phone and told my wife that I was done in the program, and I wanted to return back to our hometown and start again. I ended up at a unique and highly successful construction company at an entry level position and in 13 years I have moved up to VP and couldn’t be happier doing what I’m doing.
I often look back and think of what could have been or sit and think about the unfortunate psychological strain growing everyday on our kids and what I maybe could have done to help, but eventually I move on. I know I would have enjoyed being a researcher and clinician, but at that moment in 2007 it wasn’t in the cards.
What a blessing to have an older brother guide you! Impressed you got into a program then quit too. Not easy to do either.
I find the timing of your post interesting. I went through a similar thought process. After being out of school for almost 15 years, I am entering a PhD program Engineering in the Spring.
I tell everyone it is one of the benefits of the pandemic. I was able to reflect on what I really wanted to do. I didn’t have to take the GRE (most programs are temporarily waiving it). I will be able to take classes online instead of commuting 2 hours each way. I tested my feet in the waters to see if I could still hang with the kids by taking one class this Fall and scored the highest grade in the class.
I also found that faculty were very receptive to a non-traditional student. They knew I was focused and could contribute day 1.
My ultimate goal is to teach full-time and consultant part-time. Right now I consult full-time and teach adjunct part-time. So it makes sense for me.
Good luck! I’ve always wondered how I’d do on these standardized tests so far roomed from school. I think I’d bomb them.
Good to switch gears halfway through if you don’t like your career. Young enough to try new things for a while!
One of my first colleagues at a small startup had a PhD. I remember being so impressed with how knowledgeable he was. He always talked about how he was always trying to get into publications and had done quite well already. Fast forward a few years later and he became an assistant professor and then later a professor. He put his PhD to perfect use!
When completed an MS degree I opted to complete a MBA/PhD, with a PhD in a “hard science”. I had to take one year off my PhD efforts to complete the first year of the MBA and then completed the necessary 2nd year MBA classes while finishing PhD research .
At the time of the decision, I knew I did not want to work in academia. I assumed it would set me apart in the private sector of my field. My assumption was correct. I’ve had unique employment opportunities because of my education. For example, I’ve been a remote employee (which many people have now experienced) my entire 22-year career. That has provided family-oriented benefits that justify (in my mind) the financial opportunity cost of 6 more years of school. I’m confident I made the correct decision. But, certainly PhD pursuit is not for everyone.
Doing a PhD only makes sense for most people if they want to work in a field where it is required – mostly academia but also things like research in pharmaceuticals, working for the federal reserve etc. depending on field of study. You then should only do it if you getting funding to do it and if you think you have a good chance of getting a job that needs it. Some fields are very over-supplied (e.g. literature) compared to others (e.g. accounting). So, if you are not top of your masters class, don’t think about it in more over-supplied fields. Then you should only go to a program at a top university. For example, in economics in the US, the top 30 universities. Anything below that is a long shot… I’m a full professor in econ at the top university in Australia. Usually, if people ask me what I do I say: “I work at X uni”. I also, now use “Mr” on applications for things etc. When I was a new PhD I was more enthusiastic about using the title Dr but that was 26 years ago and now in English speaking countries the norm seems to be to not use these titles outside of academic settings. And then in Australia we rarely use them. Even undergrads address professors by their first name here. Norms in other countries can be different. Jill Biden doesn’t actually have a PhD but an EdD which is an easier degree to get. If she really demands people call her Dr then that seems petty-minded. OTOH the article in the WSJ was very wrong-headed too. She can call herself whatever she wants. Having a PhD is just an entry ticket to work in areas where it is needed. Only achievement in that area gets much respect within the profession. When I said “most people” – if you are rich and retired, have the ability, and really want to do a PhD then why not?
I have a PhD in Biomedical Engineering and it has nicely paid off in my pharmaceutical career.
After finishing my BS in Chemical Engineering, I worked for 5 years (~$50k/year). Then I started my PhD. No Masters. Further, ALL PhD students at my university (and most universities in the USA) had no tuition and received a small $20k stipend. I had enough savings to cover the slight bit over my cost of living vs pay.
I worked to finish my PhD in 4 years and networked heavily in my last year. That led to my entry into the pharmaceutical industry as a lead scientist with a nice paycheck which has continued to increase over time. I have now worked for 3 companies, published many papers and patients, worked on several products that are now helping improve patient’s lives, and can also see through all the misinformation in the media regarding the regulatory processes for COVID-19 vaccine. While I sometimes have regretted missing out some “learning” during my pharmaceutical working years (working on projects that never worked out), I have never ever regretted the 4 years I took to earn my PhD.
The payoffs for a PhD depends on the field of study, what you want to do with it and the potential life styles you subscribe to. PhD in Economics, while it works for those in academia in developing countries(research grant opportunites to address development problems) and those who have superior mathematical/ specialised background in Financial Economics or Health Economics in the developed world, may not always give same payoffs to everyone with same degree. It is probably not best to look at PhD purely from economic payoffs criteria. It is important to look at many other criteria. PhD in American/European History; PhD Archeology; PhD Mathematics; PhD Mathematical Finance; PhD Biology ; PhD Education; PhD Electronics Engneering, will all have varied financial payoffs.
There may be lost years in pursuing a PhD which could have been spent in acquiring real world experience, but industry is also associated with many instabilities and loss of jobs. Everyone interested will have to decide what to do with a PhD. If you are not prepared to take risks, it will be diffucult to be wealthy, with whatever PhD you have. I see PhD as a training opportunity and a journey. Not the end in itself. No academic qualifications can possibly provide an end. PhD is a tool but the the result you get will be determined by how you sharpen the tool and which forest or landscape you are applying the tool as well as how you quantify and evaluation your risks and payoffs, dynamically. I have seen so many wealthy PhDs, that would have been nobodys without it. On the whole, PhD returns depends on the demand. Coming from a developing country and living in a developed one, i can say that a quality PhD has equally good returns in developing countries, if not better than the developed ones.
I am still working towards my life-time ambition to do a PhD, having worked in industry for more than two decades. Best wishes.
Best wishes to you! Getting a PhD is definitely an impressive accomplishment few can achieve. I just hope that once you achieve it, you can leverage the degree for amazing things.
Related: What If You Go To Harvard And End Up A Nobody?
This is an old post but I wanted to push back a little against some of the ideas in the post and the comments. I obtained my PhD about a year ago in electrical engineering/data science. A person’s PhD experience will depend heavily on the field of study, the school, and the PhD adviser. In electrical engineering and computer science in particular, many students do internships in industry at startups and large companies and many of these students end up working at these companies after graduation or starting their own. Many professors are aware of this and recognize that academia isn’t for everyone (nor can it be for everyone) and so they encourage their students to go this path if they wish. Even if you do go into academia, the pay is usually competitive with similar positions in industry (except for finance perhaps) and you can often make extra income doing consulting. Also, you can choose very good schools in relatively low-cost areas and you won’t have to go into debt at all (coming from someone who had children during my PhD, my wife didn’t work, and we didn’t go into debt at all. Nor did we have to dip into our savings.)
I haven’t generally seen how a PhD in these fields really closes any doors except to the low-level engineering/programming jobs which you don’t want to do anyway. It also opens a lot of doors to upper level jobs and research jobs in industry. You might be able to work your way into some of these jobs without a PhD but not all (some of the research jobs will only be for PhDs and as Sam said, some companies like the prestige of having a PhD on the team).
Basically, it doesn’t generally make sense to get a PhD economically due to the lost income during the PhD years, even if you don’t go into debt. But if you choose a field that has lots of opportunities in industry or academia, and if you’re willing to put up with the work (which isn’t for everyone, for sure) then I think it’s a good way to develop the skills and credentials that allow you to work on interesting problems. You’re definitely not just limited to academic jobs with a PhD, at least not in all fields. A lot of it will depend on how you tailor your PhD. Some people will come out of their program not well-suited to industry while others won’t be well-suited to academia. And even if you’re more suited to academia, it wouldn’t take too long to shore up your programming skills to become industry ready.
I have done this and would be happy to advise anyone to avoid any unnecessary pain and effort. I was in my late-20s when I embarked upon a Ph.D. in Economics in a top 15 school, after 5-6 years of a lucrative work experience in another more technical field.
At the outset, one has to understand that most (if not all) doctoral programs are “academic” slash “apprenticeship” programs, with no relevance in the real world. They are designed by the faculty and for the faculty, who are tenured professors that never worked in the real world, and went from undergrad to grad school to be faculty. The most they can and have an incentive to offer is to hone the grad student look like them. So, in most Ph.D. grad schools, most will be brainwashed into solely wanting and respecting an academic position, because this is all the faculty are able to look up to (not knowing any other world). If you do choose to step out in the real world, you will realize that a Ph.D. has limited and potentially negative returns. First and foremost, most Ph.D.s have lost years of real world work experience in their prime years, making them significantly less professionally mature at their jobs (I am often stunned by the magnitude of this effect when hiring Ph.Ds). Second, they are now “over qualified” for many jobs on paper, but not in terms of real skill-set. Third, the opportunity cost of being in school for extra 5-6 years and focusing on writing narrow research papers (which is a requirement for a Ph.D., really), is huge in terms of current AND future asset building. Finally, let’s make this very clear — the burning desire to “pursue a path of wisdom” will not be fulfilled by pursuing a Ph.D. Ph.Ds require a narrow focus and deep dive into a specific area along with having to write research papers that fit the established norm/standards of your field. Like any other field or a corporate job, your creativity will be significantly “cabined” by these norms (a fact that few academics realize, living in the illusion that they are somehow “intellectually free”). Especially for you, Sam, an entrepreneur who has defined the line on his own terms — the real creative freedom — this could be stifling.
In conclusion, my analysis is that one should embark on a Ph.D. only if one is interested in an academic career. But realize the pros and cons of it carefully. CONS — Most academic jobs, by simple statistics are in awful geographic areas. Most academic jobs offer a below average pay, and certainly all pay lower than the industry. Most academic jobs require you to live the life of a relative recluse in your office for the most part. Most academic jobs are political if you are indeed playing the game (remember politics is higher when stakes are lower). Most academic jobs will require you to interact only with academics, going to conferences that a few care about. The PROS – Tenure; your pay is set for life (maybe, in this ever revolutionizing world). Community; you will always interact with the same people in your field. More time; despite what my academic friends think, they have much more free time than those in the real world!
Good luck!
Wonderful feedback. Getting a PhD and figuring out what to do with it sounds like a difficult grind. I passed (I’m too dumb to get in anywhere too), and just focused on my writing and online business. SO MUCH FUN! And lots of flexibility for intellectual creativity e.g. Focus On Trends: Why I’m Investing In The Heartland Of America
But Zaphod, at least I can call you Dr. Zaphod right?! That’s pretty cool.
Hi Sam,
Loved the article!
Kind of on the same boat, contemplating on the pros and cons of doing a PhD. You’ve written down a few perspectives I haven’t even thought of!
Good luck with your decision making and for a bright future ahead.
Hi! I have a master degree in Electrical Engineering and I am working at a company right now, I like my job but I am trying to study a PhD, and with this, a lof of questions come to me. I’m not sure if I should study a PhD or continue working in the private sector… How could I decide? I like both careers, I like having a financial security and on the other hand I also like to contribute in researching for my country. Is it possible to get a better job after a PhD ? What do you recommend me? the field of study for my PhD is Computer Science-Information Security.
Similar question. I retired at 33, a year ago, in part by moving to a very very cheap place. I like doing my own research, but it’s driving me crazy that I have no data to use for research. When I worked i had an abundance of data and tools but was being managed and didn’t have time to research what I wanted to. I have a finance masters and was thinking of doing a phd to do my own research and have access to the schools resources. I don’t particularly want to take more than a few courses or teach, but learn and research. The pay would probably at most compensate for the more expensive location. Is this a good reason to do phd?
I have recently begun a masters program. I have undertaken an independent study under the direction of the head of the doctoral program. My research is going well but I am unpracticed, I have been assured by other professors that I have the potential to be admitted to the doctoral program with a full scholarship and a mentorship and an opportunity to continue my research. Is it worth it? I currently work in a social service capacity but I have little experience. My strengths are in my writing and ability to connect with and interview interesting people, but I am inexperienced professionally and lacking in knowledge of proper research methodologies and statistical knowledge. The school I’m going to is relatively large but not particularly distinguished as a vaunted hall of academia. However I do enjoy doggedly following the topics I choose to study and don’t mind spending several years doing it. I’m just on the fence after being offered an opportunity in the doctoral program… however I’m told I need to get more faculty on my side and there is a political aspect to it. Thoughts?
I am 57, a retired Air Force Lt Colonel, hold three masters degrees including an MBA and will be graduating with my PhD in Social Work this spring. There is never a “too old” for a Phd arguement that I would agree with. Pursue YOUR dream, for YOUR reasons and the rest will play out just like it was meant to do. Best of everything to you!
Here’s my portion. I’m 33, turning 34, will be 38/9 when graduating and have been offered a fully funded phd at a top school. I work in a decent marketing job earning 55k with a small business on the side making maybe 10k more per year. have a psych masters already. My wife works in a good job earning 40k so between us we are able to live decently, pay the mortgage, have a car each and go on vacation.
The phd is in comms, but it’s across the country in a small town where we wouldn’t be near family, might have to sell our home and its likely the town doesn’t have a hospital so my wife’s job is nowhere around.
What would you do? The offer is great, but the social and economical costs are high too. If I don’t do the phd, we talked about getting my wife into pa school or dnp etc, if I do the phd, we’ll have to put off that and put off having a family too.
I enjoy research and love the idea of being a phd and teaching and influencing possible policy changes. I worry, however, that comms phd will only bring in about 50k a year vs the same classes taught by a business phd brings in 100k out of the gate.
I’m incredibly confused. If I were single, didn’t have a mortgage, I’d already be moving to the small town, if I were making 100k I probably wouldn’t be looking at these forums making a comment, as a married man, with responsibilities, I’m trying to figure out the opportunity costs vs long term benefits.
I’m open to listening to other’s advice.
Hi Undecided. Maybe this will help. Do you want to get a PhD because you love the idea of one, or the actual journey? Don’t do something because you want to have done it, but because you want to do it. I started my PhD at 52, but after the first semester I decided to withdraw. I’d returned to school for the wrong reasons. It’s a huge time commitment and hard on family life. But if you are really about the journey (research, classes), go for it. If not, no harm, no foul.
Good luck!
I am 52, retired 2 years ago, and just finished my first semester as a PhD student in engineering. I got my MS in 1990, have 30 years of work experience, and had wanted to pursue a PhD for a while, after retiring, I had the time. I can relate to a lot of the posts. Here is my experience. I really enjoy the classes and learning. That said, I realized this semester I have no interest in all the research hours, having to publish 3 articles, collecting mountains of data, and having a single person (my advisor) having the power to approve or fail me after 3-4 years. I think I came into it a bit naive. I thought that while I still had a lot to learn, I could offer something as well. My advisor has never worked outside, went straight through school and started teaching. There are so many politics, and a dark “underbelly” in PhD programs. At first I felt really disheartened and like I let myself down by wanting to quit. Then I realized life is too short and I need to do something that brings me joy and not stress. I can still take classes without a specific goal/degree in mind, just subjects I want to learn more about. I would love to hear others thoughts on my experience. Has anyone had similar experiences?
Hi, I am currently working, I have a Master Degree on Quantitative Finance and I am wondering I should take the risk and go for PhD. I have two kids and safe job and I have been accepted to PhD program at Grad Schol of Economics, OSAKA University Japan, to do Phd on quantitative finance which I really want to do.
Please any advice will be very welcome.
My advice is only get your PhD if you really LOVE the academics, and if you have financial support going in.
For many the title of Dr. is nothing more than an ‘ego stroke’. I know many unintelligent holder of Ph.Ds. Knowledge can be gained outside of academia. Life is short, enjoy it. A Ph.D. is not the ‘be all, end all.’ Oh, and one can have all the Ph.Ds. s in the world, but 200 years from now no one will know you had one, or even care. In the end everyone is equal – we all have to die one day, and leave all of our cherished possessions and academic achievements behind. In the end, high school dropouts and PhDs have equal status in the grave. Sorry folks, but this is the reality. Do what you need to do to accomplish and achieve only what is necessary for a comfortable, fulfilling and happy life. A Ph.D. guarantees nothing. Hubris is not a means to an end.
Financial Samurai, you give much advice and opinion for someone without a PhD. Surely if you decide to pursue a PhD, you will realize that very few doctoral students “just don’t know what to do after undergrad” etc.
That’s like saying that academic resources shouldn’t be spent on teaching an old dog new tricks, let alone research training.
You seem to have a love for learning, why not keep an open mind? Do not write off a PhD as something to do as a hobby after you’ve found financial fulfillment in your career, it’s insulting to those of us who love learning so much that we chose to pursue it from the beginning.
Stating that PhD students should always be older, experienced people has no basis. By going straight to academia, a younger person begins their career learning to examine, to conduct meaningful research, and to profess that research. Hey, these are all things a professor does! It seems to me you would be best suited to skipping the PhD (and scientific inquiry altogether), and just giving a series of lectures on YouTube to “students” looking to have exactly the same career path that you did. That way you can still “be your own man”. You could even call yourself a doctor and I bet no one would even care!
The path to a PhD is no joke. It is not a hobby, or an afterthought. I agree that people in middle age have much to contribute to the academy, and I’ve met extremely profound professors who have done it that way!
You, however, seem to think being a professor means handing out life advice you learned on the road.
If you truly love learning, show respect to the discipline of science and the academy.
Hi Josue – Can you share your background so we understand where you are coming from? I provide my advice after talking in depth to over 50 people with PhDs, including professors, students, and graduates working and not working. I also approach the angle from a cost benefit analysis as a finance person and MBA.
I’ve got over 1,000 posts on Financial Samurai sharing who I am and my About page, so it’s only fair that at least you tell us a bit more about yourself e.g. age, income, education, work experience, field, etc. Thx!
I am a 53 year old engineer who already has a master’s in engineering from a reputed top University. I started my own engineering consulting company when I was in my 30’s and sold after a decade with a reasonable profit, my wife also works as an engineer, so family income is good enough to live on Southern California. With my youngest daughter in UC college and two home mortgages, I do not much spare cash left. I have been wanting to MBA ever since When I was in graduate school for my masters’s in engineering but the time, location,and money never came together for another 3 decades. Now the kids have left home, my job is very easy/boring but pays well well, and first time in my
I’ve i have A lot of spare time. This is giving me a glimpse of how would I pass my time when I retire, say in 10 or 15 years? Life of average American seems very ordinary and looks like most are jsut living to pass time and doing meaningless things to avoid getting bored. Looking at my very able bodied father and father in law (both engineers) in 80’s, I can not imagine doing the same thing. I can not do engineering too long since it is a highly technical field and younger degrees and age rules. I also see many older well off engineers trying desperately to hold on to any technical jobs even with their obsolete skills and lack of fit in current computer driven business market place.
So it brings the question why an older man with maximum 15 years to retirment age would do a doctorate? Even though I started with pursuing MBA and secured admissions with several local universities with a reasonable discounts, I am switching to a doctor of education or philosophy program in Organizational Change and Leadership that I can do part time in 3 to 4 years. I am not sure if my current employer will reimburse me since it is not engineering or marketing related. So I will have to either find an employer who will at least pay a part of it or take a student loan to start the program. If I had the financial means today, I would have started the program right away. I see the value of a doctorate degree in doing something beyond my current engineering career. I can teach part-time, write books, do management consulting, and keep myself busy till I am in my 90’s. I do not need the money in my retirement age or will I get more money if I have a doctorate, but I will have an tool to make my next 30 years more fulfilling. My take, if you have the means now (money and time), take the plunge, otherwise you are getting old everyday (with or without PhD) and one day you will find yourself sitting on the rocking chair at the age 80 and wondering why the hell you did not do your doctorate when you had the chance.
I have a Ph.D. in Developmental Psychology and Quantitative Methodology. What I see not mentioned here is the reality that there are VERY, VERY FEW jobs in academia. Universities are simply not hiring full-time tenure-track professors. Instead, they are resorting to adjunct instructors, who are criminally underpaid, overworked, and receive NO BENEFITS.
Here are just some of the MANY articles out there about the harsh realities of academia:
https://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v472/n7343/full/472259b.html
https://www.npr.org/blogs/ed/2015/02/27/388443923/a-glut-of-ph-d-s-means-long-odds-of-getting-jobs?
https://www.slate.com/articles/life/culturebox/2013/04/there_are_no_academic_jobs_and_getting_a_ph_d_will_make_you_into_a_horrible.html
https://www.economist.com/node/17723223
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/02/the-phd-bust-americas-awful-market-for-young-scientists-in-7-charts/273339
Having a Ph.D. does not in ANY WAY guarantee a job in academia. Regardless of fields or specialities, the consensus among all academics is that academic jobs are extremely difficult to obtain. This is especially true given the huge government cuts in higher education. The odds are NOT in your favor.
So if your sole rationale for getting a Ph.D. is to become an academic or have a career in academia, I’d strongly advise critically considering and analyzing the academic job market. If your sole goal for getting a Ph.D. is for personal pursuit of knowledge, then it might be worth considering. Still, I am not sure it is ultimately the WISEST investment (you can still learn a lot on your own without going to graduate school).
I agree with most of what is stated, but will add my personal experience. I’m about midway through a PhD at the moment (over all the big hurdles), and feel it has been a great experience. Of course, if you had asked me how it was going at various points over the past two years, the answer you would receive would likely vary a lot. It’s going to have its highs and lows.
I decided to go back to school for two primary reasons. 1) I hated all the traveling I was doing for my prior job and knew I wanted to pursue something else. 2) I always enjoyed the environment academia offered and really wanted to be a professor.
Obviously this comes at a bit of a cost given that you’ll probably put in crazy amounts of time while getting paid 20-30k per year by whatever university you’re at, but you’ll honestly learn so much at a very rapid pace. It can be very rewarding at times.
Additionally, if your goal is to become a university professor (encouraged by the doctoral programs), you may have the potential for a very comfortable life; however, this will depend highly upon what your degree is in. If it’s a PhD in philosophy, your career prospects might not be great whereas if it’s a PhD in accounting, you’ll likely do relatively well. That being said, if you truly are a lover of wisdom, perhaps the amount of digits on your paycheck doesn’t matter that much to you. (I care about both)
I personally feel the lifestyle of the university professor is great. You get paid to research topics that are interesting to you and to show up and talk to a classroom of young adults for a handful of hours each week. Granted this may take a fair amount of effort, but it will seem worth it if you’re passionate about your field. Oh, and your colleagues are generally pretty bright too.
Thanks for your feedback. The lifestyle does sound pretty good. Please let us know when you’re done with your PhD and let us know what you will be doing after.
But here’s the thing about being paid to research what you like. In academia, it’s “publish or perish”. And you are usually expected to teach, advise students, serve on committes, and assimilate yourself into the “cuture” of the place. So it’s not all “just me and my books.”. Oh yes, and you will most definitely be expected to write grants. You have to bring money into the university, a lot of which you will not see. You will have to do a lot of brown nosing to not only keep your position, but to climb the ladder. In academia, it’s “up or out”. You don’t get to just exile yourself to a dark corner and do your research. You will have to take a side in the politics of the place. If you don’t, you will be looked down on as lacking ambition. So, contrary to what they depict in fiction, the life of an academic is not laid back. At least, not in the U.S. The easygoing professor who never seems to worry about anything is a relic of the past. Now your average professor (tenured or not) will be a stressed out basket case. Probably on three or more blood pressure meds. That’s the world you’re going into. Are you sure you’re still up for it?
Hi Everyone,
It is my pleasure to see such a great comments. I need your help. I am 41 years old. I did business for 14 years. I had money but lost almost all because of wrong bad investment. Since 2010 I have been teaching fulltime in College and University as an Adjunct professor of Computer and Engineering field. I have Master Degree from Pace University and I can do my Doctorate Degree from same University.Also teach certification courses. Now I have to decide should I go for Dr Degree or not. I have over 50 certifications in IT field including MCT,MCSE,CCAI,CCNP,CCDP,NCDA,VCA,VCP,A+N+S+. Now if I do doctorate degree it will take another 3 years from my life but I will be able to get fulltime professor jobs at any University when I will be 44. If I only teach certification courses I do not need Dr Degree but I can make more money. The doctorate degree would cost $66,000 USD.
What a great post and comments, thank you all for sharing your experiences. I would really appreciate if you could share your thoughts with me about if it’s the right decision or not to get my PHD.
I have an master already and I’m now 29 years old, I have my own business going with my salary about 10,000 USD a month, it’s an online business with 15 employees and I only spend max of 3 hours a day on it, and I’m planning to improve it, So I’m financially stable;
I’m offered a scholarship somewhere in Asia, as well as $1500 monthly stipend, to do my Phd in a field , business, that I like but I’m not sure if I really want to do Phd on. I don’t wanna teach in university one day but I would like to share my thoughts and knowledge in weekly lectures etc. i don’t like commitment and office job!
I wanna get a Phd for the title only, and make my mom and my love ones happy and proud. I think it’s a nice achievement. But I don’t think I will be able to study hard or spend more than 2/3 hours a day on my Phd. Is that reasonable? I’m not really sure if I should go for it or not .. I don’t like to work hard that’s my nature, and try to avoid under pressure for health reasons.
BTW, my Father is a wealthy man, meaning really wealthy, not saying I depends on him by any mean as I don’t get any financial help from him since I was 20 as we don’t get a long that much.
Hi All,
This is a subject that is very near and dear to my heart. Pursuing a PhD has been a life goal of since I was a kid. As a 34 old with an MBA I have no illusions about what it takes to get a PhD, and I still want to do it. Specifically I plan on getting a PhD in Economics because it is the most fascinating subject in the world to me, with psychology being a distant yet related second.
Since you have technically entered your early retirement I think there are really two options to pursue. The entrepreneurial route as you describe, or the academic route. I do believe you can do both. I think the strongest argument for doing the PhD now is that you get more usage out of it now versus getting it later in life.
The flip side is, as you know, if the motivation isn’t there then its probably not going to be worth it in the long run. If youre like me at all, you just want a challenge. Do them both if you can, but if not just enjoy life.
Jeremy
I wonder if a PH.d is for me. I have my masters degree in Criminal Justice with a dual specialization in Forensic Psychology and Forensic Science with some student loan debt. I plan to work in academia when I retire (I’m 26) but I have been mulling over the opportunity for a PH.d at this time. Would it benefit me in my career endeavors? Probably not. The criminal justice realm mostly relies on experience and not so much education. I wonder what is your perspective? Would it benefit me at this age to go ahead and push through so that when I retire I can reap the benefits of an advanced degree? Or will I be able to market successfully my attributes with a masters degree alone?
Hi Sam,
Long time reader of your blog and I have to say, looking at the comments, I couldn’t help but chime in with my $0.02.
I’m a first generation immigrant, 26 y/o, did my bachelors in engineering (biotech) abroad before I joined a PhD program in Biochemistry here. Right now I’m in my 5th year (general duration of grad studies for my lab is around 6.5 – 7 years) and hope to be done next year.
IF you’re going for a doctoral degree ( from the last couple of your comments, I got the feeling you were opting out), I would recommend looking at the faculty who you want as your advisor instead of the school. A lot of great schools have crap faculty, though the inverse is not always the case. Your PI / advisor ( and to some extent your dissertation committee) is really the only person who has control over your doctoral study, and its excruciatingly important you find one with whom you gel. Everything else is quite frankly irrelevant or will be taken care of.
What I found most interesting is the accuracy of comments that have been provided by people who actually HAVE a PhD, vs, those from people who would like to have one. This is quite common – non PhDs either treat PhDs with contempt or respect – kinda like Korean car styling – you either love em or you hate em – there’s no middle ground there, and you would hardly take advice on gold smithing from a blacksmith would you ? It sounds clique-y but it is quite true.
My humble advice to you would be to do a get a PhD only if you feel there is a benefit to it. Just like getting into an MBA program, do a cost/benefit analysis – will your PhD really be worth it ? I say this because if a PhD in communications is anything like doing a PhD in the sciences, then getting a PhD just because you want to learn is an utterly lousy reason to get the degree. IMHO, the only reason you should get a PhD are –
1. the advanced degree opens job doors for you
2. you would like to stay in academia,
of which only the 2nd point has some passing commonality with your reasons as I understood.
Pros of getting a PhD (my views may be biased towards the experiences I have as a science PhD candidate – this might not be applicable wholly for other fields, especially those that do not deal with a lot of experimentation)
1. You learn to analyse stuff really quickly
2. You learn to defend your arguments cogently
3. You learn to learn & pick up your pieces from DAILY defeats instead of bawling your eyes out
4. Teaches you tenacity. Look at point 3
5. If you apply yourself it actually changes the way you think about everything. Not in a metaphysical manner, but in a real life application, day to day manner.
6. you get to interact with really REALLY intelligent people, often leaving you feeling like a fake, or at the very least humbled.
7. Instills a really strong work ethic
8. If you can spin your recently gained soft skills right, you can land a job virtually anywhere.
9. You learn how to negotiate with someone who holds all the cards while you hold none.
10. Day to day BS doesn’t fool you most of the time. Refer to point 1
Cons –
1. Are you really willing to forego having a social life ?
2. You must be willing to be ground down under the deluge of negative data, or stuff just not working for you. My PI’s most accomplished PhD graduate published his 400 page thesis, and all of the work he published could be done in 1.5 years. He spent a grand total of 7 years in the program. Where did the rest 5.5 years go ? – Negative/Incomprehensible data, stuff not working, hypothesis’ failing the test, and just plain bad luck. Contrast the amount of ‘good’ data to the amount of ‘bad’ data, and you will see why grad students are perpetually grumpy
3. I’ll repeat the 2nd point again, since very few seem to appreciate it. You WILL be ground down under the deluge of negative data. Ultimately the only things that will keep you going are your work ethic, discipline and doggedness.
4. You are EVERYBODY’s bitch. EVERYBODY’s -starting from the dean, right down to the post-docs in your lab. The situation improves slightly once you’ve gained some seniority, but you’re still someone’s whipping boy.
5. Pay that is just above the poverty line – officially classifying you as slightly better off than food stamp material but still thoroughly unable to afford anything great. In some Uni’s the pay situation is better than most though
All in all, while the long term benefits are there, you pay a very dear price in terms of time, effort, and mental peace to achieve those dreams.
Lastly, apologies for the long post and slightly arrogant tone at the beginning.
Regards,
Sam
Thanks for your perspective! Being “everybody’s bitch” doesn’t sound too appealing at my age (37). As a result, I think you’ve definitely convinced me NOT to do it. It’s OK to be a bitch boy in your 20s, but in your mid to late 30s you tend to want to naturally be your own man.
You only become “everybody’s bitch” if you have no backbone–and even then it’s not all that dramatic (academic environments are very collaborative, at least in my experience). As a mid 30s man, you will be just fine. You may feel like you are at the bottom rung of the ladder sometimes, as many people around you are seasoned PhDs and post-docs, but people tend to be very respectful. If they don’t seem that way, find a different lab. Most of the cons Sam cites are completely exaggerated and are reminiscent of stereotypes perpetuated in our society about what getting a PhD is like.
I would consider searching further and wider for perspectives and talk to some people in academia, in industry with a PhD, and wherever else you can find PhDs in the fields you are interested in to get their two cents. The commenter above seems cynical (most likely due to nearing the end of their PhD–things probably seem a little darker during this year or two time frame).
You cite many pros of getting a PhD but strictly say it’s only for people who want to stay in Academia. That is simply not true and unsupported by data. People who want to work in all sorts of fields, including business, can benefit from getting a PhD. The benefits you list are ubiquitously important in many technical and problem solving careers, and I don’t think most high-profile employers would scoff at having spent 5 years or more honing your critical thinking and problem solving skills. Yes, industry experience is important, but having shown the potential to be a high-level expert in a field is attractive to many employers as well. The paradigm that a PhD is strictly for entry into academic areas is fading very quickly.
https://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2012/08/what_is_the_value_of_a_science_phd_is_graduate_school_worth_the_effort_.html#
I also was accepted to enroll in phd program in computer science. I never liked coding but I learned it and have a master degree Iam 41 with two kids and the age thing makes me think twice if I should start the phd this fall. The college offered scholarship that covers 85% of tuition but I have to have 15 credit every semester full time. Currently i am not working so phd will not make me miss any work, but I am not sure what to do. Should I go for it and become a “Dr” and struggle to make it happen or should I just shut up and go on with life as is and worry about other things in my life and family. I will be 45 or 46 when I finish that is if,,at that age I cant start new thing we only have one shot in life and timing is the essence, I should have done phd in my twenties or early thirties now it is not that time.
“I never liked coding, but…” is your answer. If you get a Ph.D, get it in something related and make it something you want. I’m going through the same type of thing, and have over 20 years in a career that was my third choice…why get a doctoral in that? I’m leaning back to my original interests or at least finding a way to combine the expertise with something more important to me.
Computer science is a much bigger field than merely coding, even bigger than computers. There are huge essential fields within computer science where programming is not even required. In any case, coding wouldn’t really be your focus in a PhD program – even if you focus on software engineering, most of what you do will be doing is at a much higher level. Similarly, I have had math professors (at an ivy league top 10 math department) who despise and are terrible at doing calculations, but are at the very top of the field. Or perhaps in the same way that even the greatest novelists can be terrible spellers.
However, I agree with the usual criteria, you should only get a phd if 1) you love what you are studying so much you would pay to do it (because, even on a full scholarship, given the opportunity cost, you ARE paying to do it). 2) it is a professional requirement. ….i would personally add 3) if you simply have no better options AND it is a fully funded program, with a living stipend, in a field that is interesting to you, in demand (computer science, economics, etc…) and you like doing academic stuff, then it is obviously a reasonable life choice.
I am 37 yrs old, and I would like to go back to the grad school shortly for Ph.D program, and I know it isn’t easy especially for whom has a family and full time secure job . What I say is may ALLAH helps me to making the right step for my family and me :)
Good luck! I hope you have a lot saved and get into a good program. Just mentally think 7 years of school and you should be good!
after a year, i decided to drop out of my phd program.
i have a masters and for what i do, there was no real benefit to getting one.
i DON’T want to spend my life in academia.
i did a little video with my reasons why.
I am 30yrs old with a masters, and I want a PH.D… I’m hesitant because of the test, evaluations, more student loans, and etc… The bright side is my tenacity to learn and the hope that life will turn out exactly as it should, based on a series of decisions I made, based on my past experiences.