Going back to work to take a break from fatherhood after two year and making extra income sounds like a good idea now! After all, there are less things to do during the pandemic. So you might as well find a job where you can work from home, work 2-hours a day, and still get paid full-time!
I recently visited my old friend Chris who works at Google. We first met on Craigslist when I put out an ad to hire someone to help build my blog network website back in 2009.
Chris took me on a two hour bike tour at what literally felt like a college campus with over 60 buildings. There’s all you can eat food from every type of cuisine. There are tennis courts, a soccer field, a wave pool, and freshly squeezed orange juice when you’re thirsty. Massages by appointment, daycare, and dry cleaning are all at your disposal.
You basically never need to leave the Googleplex, which is exactly what management wants. My time at Google reminded me about how much fun work could be.
In fact, I regularly see a woman who works at Google play pickleball for 2-3 hours during the weekday. Sign me up for a job that pays me to play!
THE PUSH TO GO BACK TO WORK FULL-TIME
After 24 years post college, I’ve been fortunate to experience working at a couple reputable firms full-time and pursue a dream of doing something entrepreneurial full-time as well.
But several things besides my visit to Google have been pushing me to take full-time work seriously again.
- No matter how much you love someone, it’s rather difficult spending 24/7 with your significant other every day, especially after at least one of you was out of the house for 12+ hours a day. Separation is very healthy for relationships. It allows you to recharge and re-appreciate what you have. I can’t go to the park every day at 11am to go play tennis with my fellow tennis bums either. There needs to be a change of pace.
- Despite going through a couple downturns in my career, I never really felt that much pain because I was never laid off. The bi-weekly paychecks kept coming in during the dotcom bust and the housing market collapse. Sure, my year-end bonuses got slaughtered, but my lifestyle didn’t really change much because I always just invested all of my bonus anyway. As an entrepreneur, I’m hypersensitive to income fluctuations. Revenue can easily decline by 25% month over month as it recently did. There are so many exogenous variables that are outside of my control. If doom is around the corner, it would be nice to have some stability.
- There’s no more fear of regret. One of the main reasons why I left my day job in 2012 was because I didn’t want to look back as an old man, filled with regret having never tried creating something on my own. A good 3.5 years have past surviving on my own and I’m proud of what I’ve accomplished. It’s hard to build a livable income stream that can support four people in San Francisco. Now that the challenge is complete, I long for a new challenge.
The combination of consulting and working on your own business is pretty fantastic. You can make a healthy income while having a lot of freedom. However, there’s a wanderlust feeling that grows when you don’t feel you belong anywhere. I think we all naturally want to be part of some type of organization.
Related posts:
How Much Do I Have To Make As An Entrepreneur To Replicate My FT Job Income?
Bankers, Techies, Doctors: You’ll Never Get Rich Working For Someone Else
A Day Job Is So Much Easier Than Entrepreneurship
BENEFITS OF A DAY JOB
Before making a big decision, I like to write out my thoughts. Here are some of the things I miss about working full-time from my old shop.
- The camaraderie of working towards a common mission. I love working together on a good team that is looking to compete against another company. It feels exactly like playing together on a softball, basketball, or football team. As an avid league tennis player, I love coming up with the lineups and talking strategy with my fellow teammates. Sitting out a match to make way for a better player is not a problem because the thrill of victory trumps everything else.
- The corporate card. As a frugal person who likes to hustle, it’s awesome to be able to eat a free meal while developing client relationships. Because I love saving money, I made it a point to try and take as many clients out for lunch, dinner, and drinks as possible. The real reward was building one of the strongest west coast franchises on the street, which led to even more gains.
- The commiseration. Every day can’t be a good day. Sometimes we lose out on a deal, fall in the rankings, or get fired by a client. Commiserating with colleagues about what could have been always felt pretty good because we were in it together.
- The boondoggles. Every decent company spends a lot of time and money on making sure their company culture is strong. Part of good company culture is having happy employees who get along with one another. I know Uber, for example, had a company-wide trip (5,000+ employees) to Vegas for four days. Talk about fun!
- The security. Getting a paycheck every two weeks felt amazing. It was easy to save one and spend the other to get to a 50% after-tax savings rate. I’m now purposefully paying myself in the middle of the month to replicate a bi-weekly paycheck cadence because I receive my rent checks at the beginning of the month. Unless you really screw up, it’s hard to get fired.
- The benefits. I pay ~$1,460 a month for health insurance for two healthy people in their mid-30s. That’s a ridiculous amount of money when it costs a tenth of that amount in some other developed countries. I miss the 401k match and annual company profit sharing, although most startups don’t match. I also miss the continuing education training and tuition reimbursement program that paid for almost all of my Berkeley MBA. The short-term and long-term disability leave was also nice. Read your employee handbook everyone.
- The recognition. The most exciting time at the company was during promotion period. Everybody would eagerly wait to see who got on the CEO’s promotion blast list. The flood of congratulation e-mails, pats on your back, and handshakes if you got promoted always felt really good. Getting recognized for a job well done is a fundamental necessity.
- The networking. Even though competition was fierce, it was always fun to go to networking events and mingle with competitors. Some would share secrets about shared clients. While others might want to poach you away for big bucks. As a relatively extroverted person, the networking events were always enjoyable.
Latest Statistics About Work
• 58% of people work from home or 80 million people
• Based on a survey, 60% of the employees claimed they would prefer to continue working from home
• There is a 62% increase in remote workers’ productivity
• Remote workers feel 60% less connected with their coworkers
Quiet quitting is also a big thing! So is not working if you get to work from home.
Due to the prevalence of working from home, people no longer need to strive for FIRE and early retirement. Why retire early when you have so much more work flexibility?
WHY DO YOU WORK?
If you can find a reputable job that gives you the opportunity for growth, while giving you the freedom to pursue other passions outside of work, I dare say it could be an ideal situation. The trouble is finding that perfect company!
There’s nothing better than starting your own website to own your brand online and earn extra income on the side. Why should LinkedIn, FB, and Twitter pop up when someone Google’s your name?
With your own website you can connect with potentially millions of people online, sell a product, sell some else’s product, make passive income and find a lot of new consulting and FT work opportunities.
Start your own WordPress website with Bluehost today. You never know where the journey will take you!
Recommendation For Leaving A Job
If you want to leave a job you no longer enjoy, I negotiating a severance instead of quitting. If you negotiate a severance like I did back in 2012, you not only get a severance check, but potentially subsidized healthcare, deferred compensation, and worker training.
When you get laid off, you’re also eligible for up to roughly 27 weeks of unemployment benefits. Having a financial runway is huge during your transition period.
Conversely, if you quit your job you get nothing. Check out the book How To Engineer Your Layoff: Make A Small Fortune By Saying Goodbye.
It’s the only book that teaches you how to negotiate a severance. It was recently updated and expanded thanks to tremendous reader feedback and successful case studies.
Sam, that’s quite an honest answer.
You have a financial industry background, so you might find this question interesting (or maybe not)…Have you considered learning how to use short options and delta balanced futures (long or short) to risk mitigate your exposure? Just curious.
R,
Fred Atwater
Yes. I survived 2018’s sell-off and closed up 0.8% overall, and +5.7% on my actively traded House Sale Fund after I sold my rental house in 2017.
See: 2018 Review: Almost A Fantastic Year
I’m probably going to try going back to work in the Fall this year.
The markets crashed almost 20 percent last week! The Feds 50 bps did not inspire the markets!
Always be learning
Hi! Long-time reader but I’ve never commented…until now ;) I feel compelled.
I worked FT, quit my job, then freelanced for three years. I freelanced PT but some months earned more than I did at my FT job.
After three years, I was ready to rejoin the workforce, and so I did (I work in finance, too). This was in July of this year. I can honestly say I’m already ready to be back at home freelancing, but I’m going to give it some more time. This post was a wake-up call that that is just how we as humans are – we are constantly looking for change and I honestly think that’s great! Whether you work for a company or work for yourself, doing basically the same thing day after day gets old.
I read a quote the other day that resonates with this – Sh*t gets old, fast.
I say take the job. It’s been fun having coworkers and the office camaraderie. Plus, if you get sick of it after a month, a year or 10 years, you can always quit :) That right there is the beauty in not needing to work for money.
Howdy Sarah!
Nice to hear from you. Very interesting insight about you going back in July and just three months later, you’re ready to go back home to freelancing.
I do wonder if I will feel the exact same way. After this post was published, I decided to send out feelers… and boy, was the feedback IMENSE. Six firms responded, I gave a startup incubator pitch yesterday, and I have 6 back to back hours of interviews one day next week + dinner, and three meetings the day before.
One thing I did do was reach out to personal finance 1X1 clients. That was very rewarding and fun to hear people really appreciate the help.
Good luck with what you decide too! I’ll keep everybody posted for sure. It’s fun to write about the journey. Maybe that’s it.. I’m looking to experience something new, in order to write something new.
S
People want the opposite of what they have. When you have a job, you want to quit and enjoy your freedom. When you quit your job and start your own business, you miss the financial stability and social aspects of your old life. Whatever you do, you feel like you’re missing out.
Hey Sam-
A few things jump out at me –
It sounds like you don’t have kids – this would make it much more appealing to work because you don’t have to spend several hours a week taking care of them, etc. On the other hand, if you don’t have them and aren’t planning on having them, you need less money so could also be an argument for not working.
Have you considered writing a book about how to become a successful blogger? Or on how to be a financial samurai? How about teaching personal finance and/or entrepreneurship in some capacity?
I do think if you go to work in Tech, it will be a much more engaging and interesting time compared to Finance. In Tech, people are really passionate about solving problems and making great products, whereas in Finance, people just want to make money (obviously a generalization).
You are in an interesting position to get a pretty good gig in the tech space, making the choice to go back to work a much easier one. The question is would you look at a start-up or a more established firm. A start-up is more interesting but probably would be much more demanding and you would probably find yourself working 60+ hours a week. In an established firm, you could still maintain a pretty solid work-life balance and find something you’re interested in. Obviously, there wouldn’t be a chance to get really rich like you would at a start-up.
I think an interesting space would be at an established firm but working on a start-up project (think project Titan). You would have the resources of a huge firm, the benefits of a huge firm, and the independence/creativity of a start-up feel. Not exactly sure what capacity or project you would fit into, but those seem pretty interesting/unique to me.
I am also not sure why you are set on a 3-year commitment. 3 years (as you mentioned) is a LONG time in tech. I would say a 2-year commitment seems more reasonable, and that is only if you like what you’re doing after the first year…If not, get out.
I don’t know you so take this for what it’s worth – but you seem like a pretty competitive person and someone who likes to “prove” yourself to others. In our society, working can be a big part of that. If you get the right gig, you may get a lot of satisfaction out of helping to build a team/product while “proving your worth” to your immediate co-workers.
The thing I personally don’t like about working at a company is that it is an “all or nothing” game. It would be great to be able to work either 3-4 days a week, or have a schedule where you work 4 weeks then take the 5th off..etc. Unfortunately, if you start working at a company, you are going to have to be “all-in”.
Also consider if you value learning for the sake of it. Are you currently learning new things? Do you care to? There are several other ways to learn besides working at a company, but if you do go back to work, you will most likely develop new skills and learn more.
I know a lot of people here have a goal to retire ASAP. My dad is 66 and still works even though he doesn’t need to and he simply says he doesn’t know what he would do all day if he didn’t have a job.
I met a founder of a start-up who sold it and made millions when he was 30. He founded a new company right after the sale and has been working away at it for 2 years. I asked him why he cares to work so much when he is already so rich and his response was “being rich doesn’t matter. Being relevant does.”
Interesting feedback from the rich founder. I can agree with that. And if anybody wants to FEEL relevant, writing online to a relatively large audience with great feedback such as yours is one of the best ways to go. I just got done with three personal finance 1X1 consulting calls this week, and it felt AMAZING to help different people with their different financial problems at different stages of their lives. Simply amazing.
This site, and others, provides fantastic online stimulation. I’m seeking more offline stimulation.
I really want to prove myself, to myself. Getting challenged is great, and it probably comes from the athletic side of me. Getting beat 6-0, 6-1 is embarrassing, but great, b/c it is a challenge.
What are you up to?
Living in NYC, working for a large tech company after leaving a bulge bracket bank, trying to figure out what I want to do with my life (-:
Sounds like you just got started at your tech company. How old are you and how long have you been there? Give it a good 5 years!
Turning 26 next week. I have been at this company for 18 months. Will see about the 5 years!
I really sympathise with a lot of your thoughts and observations here Sam. Very similar to how I feel after almost a year of “Early Retirement”. I got very close to taking a full time job until my mate asked me “Do you think it will enhance your current lifestyle”? The answer to that was a resounding “No!” Incidentally I read that Google has a high staff turnover, average employee lasting about two years. Strange, if it’s as great as everyone makes out. Your probably have to swop your life for theirs, and no amount of free orange juice and bean bags makes that worthwhile.
Hi Jim, after 3.5 years of doing whatever the heck I want, I do long for more structure. Come back to me next year or in two years w/ your thoughts on Early Retirement and see if your feelings/situation changes!
Good article. If the idea appeals to you, why not? If you find out it doesn’t appeal after you give it a shot, at least you tried. Also, if you’re bored and want a different challenge, what about starting that family you’ve talked about?
I personally enjoy blogs that delve more toward the personal esp in regard to raising well adjusted kids who aren’t spoiled although parents are FI.
Si, como no? Is my favorite Spanish saying. Why the heck not.
Didn’t get through all the comments so this might have been addressed, but why not try to build something bigger using your brand and resources that would require partners and staff? This would give you the human interaction with company dynamics but leave you firmly in the entrepreneurial driver seat. Bit more risk but could also be very lucrative and you’ve already got a head start with your finance background and self made businesses experience.
I’ve got a laundry list of things I plan to build under the FS brand:
* More books beyond severance negotiations and the Best of Financial Samurai e.g. real estate, investing, early retirement.
* Building a product. I’m going to interview with an incubator today actually.
* Going more public.
But, I don’t like to manage a bunch of people b/c I find my expectations are too high of others. I don’t want to be disappointed. I also like the lifestyle business where I go at my own pace.
How about you?
I voted: No, it’s not worth losing 40+ hours a week of freedom. But based on what I’ve read from you, Sam, it sounds like you can’t go wrong here. You won’t be going back to work for the money, you’d be going back for the mental stimulation – no? If that’s the case, will this 40+ hour job take away from your other independent ventures? It hasn’t taken me long to figure out that time is our most precious resource, you gotta go with what will keep you interested, refreshed, and excited to wake up every morning.
Yes, the camaraderie and challenge first. The money is a great benefit no doubt that will help smooth out earnings volatility as well.
Even though I realize time gets more precious the older I get, I’ve already experimented with max work and no work with my time. I feel I’ve found a proper calibration.
If you want to go back to work, go back to work. You are financial independent and can do whatever you wish. When at work you do not need to fear being fired like the rest of us and can speak and act your mind freely. Worst case scenario is that you find out work isn’t all that jazzy you wished it was and quit to either work for someone else or work in your own enterprise once again. You got nothing to loose.
I make over $500k a year working 20 hours a week, never travelling for business and taking 6-7 weeks of vacation each year. Its a nice balance and the wife and I still get along since I am not in her hair 24/7.
Well done! What do you do and how old are you? What type of net worth have you been able to accumulate with that income?
What about looking for an opportunity to be a partner with a VC fund, or something along those lines? You’d probably have more autonomy over your schedule than as an employee, and with your combined background in finance and technology, it might be a good fit for you, and you’re in a position to take less compensation in exchange for more equity, which could be good. Just a thought as a regular reader of your blog.
I think that’s a great idea BH. Being a VC is one of the cushiest jobs around. People pitch to you. You invest other people’s money. You make a cary, and sit back for the next 10 years! I’ll look into it more for sure. thx.
FS, do what you feel. It is one thing to ‘decide’ to go back to work f/t, but my thought is that the real question is “what kind of job can you get, and for what compensation?” What kind of title, pay, duties are your a) aspiration; b) expected; and c) minimum? If you know those three combinations, you have your criteria. It would be great if you care to share them.
SF seems to be a completely different animal for a lot of things financial, but from my own perspective the labor market is very tough to re-enter at a satisfactory point. The ‘three-year commitment’ is great, because I know for myself that the first time somebody is uncooperative or makes things personal that I will be out-the-door!:-)
Another option, which I’m sure you have considered; can your DW/S.O. take a sabbatical while you return f/t, and you switch places for awhile? Maybe the stress you both feel is not so much based on ‘togetherness’ but on equity? Well, she must be quite special for you to have chosen her, and her input and thoughts on the decision you face will be quite valuable.
One last thing noticed; you had discussed expanding your family, and a f/t return to a worklife would really impact your available time/energy/resources to dedicate. If it isn’t a priority, it is perfectly fine to defer or change your mind. Keeping good thoughts for you, as you work your way through the branches of this decision-tree!
Hola JayCeezy,
The DW doesn’t need to take a sabbatical because she no longer works a day job to take a sabbatical from. It’s just she and I 24/7, hence it would be nice to mix things up. I don’t think there will ever be true equity contribution in a relationship, and that’s not a problem. But I do believe there needs to be equity in effort.
It’s weird, but I have no desire to be a head honcho at a big firm. I’m already the top dog at my own firm. Instead, I’d rather blend in. It feels warm, comfortable, and frankly, makes me a little giddy to assimilate.
Cheers
This is a great article Sam. It captures some of the ambivalence I feel about retiring early, even with substantial financial security. I haven’t really seen this type of discussion in the FIRE blogging community. The focus is typically on either extreme frugality or using side hustles to escape a job they truly hate.
I particularly think that people underestimate the job security that comes from a variety of job attributes:
1. Being a revenue generator
2. Having detailed technical or organizational knowledge that allows you to get things done efficiently and breakthrough corporate red tape
3. A history of proven performance
4. A solid relationship with your boss and his/her peers
If the company is growing at a respectable pace for the industry, there is some amount of inertia that allows even below-average performers to hold onto their jobs for many years. For above-average performers, this locks them into a very stable situation. As you say, only a massive screw-up (or maybe an acquisition) is potent enough to knock things off track.
In a broad sense it’s very true that no job is safe, but for given situations I think the generalization doesn’t apply, based on my years as a consultant seeing the inner workings of dozens of companies.
Josh, glad you enjoyed the post.
Given your situation, have you read, “Overcoming The One More year Syndrome To Do Something New“?
I have indeed, but once you have a kid the equation changes. Your future expense projections get turned upside down and OMYS starts looking like a feature, not a bug.
Have you thought about other projects of your own that might take up more time and use your talents. You could probably expand your financial advising side hustle into a bigger operation. Might not give you all of the benefits, but it would also avoid a lot of the down sides.
Good point. That is exactly what I did yesterday. I reached out to several people who filled out my personal finance consulting form, and I have a call with one this morning, and two more calls this week!
Absolutely, if that is what is in your heart to do then so be it especially if it’s good for your relationship. The financial aspects will be good for you but I have the impression it isn’t about the money. I am preparing to retire in another 2 – 3 years and I am excited about it. I believe I will probably find work for 2 – 3 days a week because it is what I want to do not what I have to do. Successful accomplishments that maintain your confidence, keep your brain flowing and activities that you can continue to learn from are all very good for you. It keeps your life balanced. I don’t believe it’s the money for you but something more personal. Of course the benefits are sweet but the personal rewards to will receive will make you happy and happiness in life is the goal.
Good luck & enjoy. I am happy to hear you will continue with your writings as I do enjoy & learn from them. Thank you…..
You’re going to love having the freedom to do what you want 24/7 in 2-3 years. It is also wise that you know you will probably want to work 2-3 days a week too. It’s hard not to, after a lifetime of work.
There will, however, be a moment of sadness when the time comes. Becomes that is the point where you look back and realize that stage of your life is over. It’s now up to creating a new path!
Related: What Does Retirement Feel Like? The Pros And Cons Of No Longer Working For A Living
You sound bored with your life! You need new challenges and that does not come from going back to what you left behind. What happened to your product venture?
Interviewing w/ an incubator this week about my product!
Related: A List Of Incubators And Accelerators For Your Startup
Great post, Sam, and something I’d always wondered if you occasionally considered. I think you have to find your own way. You have options–that’s what FI gives you. I’m working full time (usually ~ 10 hours of non-stop, on-my-feet, immediate demands) so get exhausted. I’d like to work a few more years full time, and then, because I spent so much time going to college and vet school, work 2-3 days/week. I don’t want to lose that connection with animals and with the people who love them– I just can’t continue the pace indefinitely.
Let us know– you are not only an inspiration, but fascinating to follow!
10 hours on your feet non-stop is A LOT! How do you do it? I get tired standing after just an hour, and need to plop down on my day bed when writing a post. I LOVE animals too! I’m thinking of being a part-time dog sitter. There are lots of new startups here that provide this service e.g. DoggieVacay.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and reading!
The Universe just spent 13.8 billion years creating you. There’s nothing you can do to try to control it. Don’t try to have a single career. To have a “purpose”. To “figure out what you want to do”. Just do the best you can each day. If you don’t know what that means, you have to figure that out for yourself. If anybody tells you what it means, then they don’t know what it means. – James Altucher, The Rich Employee
You might benefit from this book Sam. Good luck with your decision!
Thanks for the suggestion Aaron. I’m trying to figure it out, like I always do, by getting as many different perspectives as possible.
Why do you work?
I cashed out of an ESOP corporation about a year ago to pursue a higher calling with a non-profit cooperative. My work involves helping electric utilities balance their costs with the need to provide reliable power. Specifically, the reason why I go to work is because of the idea that in some way I hope my contributions are helping folks in rural America keep their lights on.
Thanks for your continued efforts with the blog Sam. You have been an inspiration to me and my family. Whichever path you decide, I hope you are able to find peace in your restlessness. -Aaron
Hi Sam, I am struggling with the same thoughts as yourself, but I voted “No don’t do it!” in your poll. I was down in London the other day considering a job offer that would see me back in paid employment. There were a lot of upsides, not least the money and security, but the friend I was staying with gave me this advice as he was heading out to his office, “Jim, if it doesn’t enhance your current lifestyle, don’t do it”. I really liked the idea he floated, that work should add value to how you’re living your life, not detract from it. On this basis, I decided to pass on that particular job. Maybe if it had been a 20 hour a week job as opposed to 40 I’d have grabbed it. I suspected, however, it would be (me being me) a 60 hour a week job. So no thanks!
20 hours a week would be amazing. I did 25/hours a week when I was consulting for Personal Capital. But have you ever wondered with the really wealth continue to work? I want people to think about that. I don’t think anybody has commented yet. Why work, when you don’t need to work? Anybody?
Sam, Here’s why I work when I don’t need to.
1- Most all of my friends have to work. “Nobody to play with during the day.
2- To lazy, comfortable, or scared to make a change
3- I got a real cool office I get to play on the internet during the day
4- Keep some long time employees employed.
5- My wife and I need a little break from each other some days.
6- My daughter is still in school. “Hard to take a lot of time off when you have school, sports, and a social life of a 16 year old girl to attend to.
7- Money. Why not another million?
Thanks, Bill