Financial Samurai

I think the phenomenon is more prevalent amongst younger women. In my limited experience women who have some life experiences (age is a number, but maturity is a relevant measure) tend to make smarter decisions about who they enter into full relationships with. Younger (again, youth being measured in many different ways) women are not sure what they want and are often attracted to men who are irrationally confident (re: cocky) and great at pushing the “please give me attention” buttons that are so prevalent in society today. The Western marketing machine is basically built to make women feel self conscious about everything and especially their bodies; therefore, when young women have not developed a solid sense of self confidence they are very vulnerable to a guy who knows the right phrases to take advantage of the situation. Young men are targeted much less and get more space to go through the growing up process and build self confidence naturally. Personally, I spent a ton of time trying to look way more like a cool rebel than I ever should have. The sad thing is that it worked. When you combine the “right” phrases, with the weird badboy phase it’s a pretty destructive/effective combination. Thank god I got older and didn’t have to play a game any more to attract women.

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Eddie Reply:
June 6th, 2011 at 1:06 pm

@My University Money You make some really good points. And I have to agree that life experiences and age play a major role in how women, and men, choose who to date.

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Simple Rich Living Reply:
November 25th, 2011 at 12:52 am

I agree with both points about life experiences and age, as is cultural and family bringing.

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I used to be confused over this when I was in highschool and didn’t have much luck with the ladies until senior year or so – I was a nice guy and that’s not what most of the hot girls were looking for at that time. I used to see these beautiful, outgoing girls go for guys that treated them like crap, cheated on them constantly, in some cases, pushed them around and basically disgraced them. I think much of it starts in the home and how dad treated mom (if dad was around much).

I think there’s been a societal shift where women are now out-educated and out-earning men and some of the self-esteem trends we used to see are shifting, but it’s likely to persist in some way forever.

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Evan Reply:
May 23rd, 2011 at 8:11 pm

I wanted to make the immature joke of: Daddy Issues

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Darwin's Money Reply:
May 24th, 2011 at 3:38 am

Well, not so sure how immature; you don’t think there’s something to be said for what the home life is like and confidence later in life?

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Financial Samurai Reply:
May 24th, 2011 at 10:52 am

Darwin, hot girls don’t go out with engineers. You know that!

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Darwin's Money Reply:
May 24th, 2011 at 6:14 pm

Well, they don’t major in engineering, that’s for sure :>

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Simple Rich Living Reply:
November 25th, 2011 at 12:56 am

@Darwin, I agree that ‘women are out-educated and out-earning men…’ comment, but
and women still want to men to initiate :)!

johnboy007 Reply:
February 11th, 2012 at 7:11 pm

I have seen this over and over. Young women will go out and be with a loser bad boy who really cant seem to get it together and shun the smart nice guy who now is in his thirties and forties and sucessful. Now he doesnt want anything to do with that once young girl who now is middle aged tainted and fat whore with 3 kids from two different losers. Turn around is fair play

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Financial Samurai Reply:
February 12th, 2012 at 7:34 am

Ouch.

Well, I think you will enjoy the post on 2/13/2012 entitled, “Why Single Men Love Growing Old” on FS then!

Younger women like being treated poorly because they don’t know what they want and if they are treated too well by a ‘nice’ guy they feel like it’s too easy.

The psychology is the same that way with both sexes.

-Mike

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I think that mike is on to something – most women are not sure of what they want, and if they are, they are afraid to go after it. I also think that some women want to be with the jerks because they feel like they will be able to change them and have the happy ending – a fairy tale fantasy, in my mind. At my age, people are who they are, and you’re not going to change them very much (if at all) – major changes like the ones that women typically seek must begin from within.
It could be interesting to see if the power dynamic shifts in the future with women beginning to out educate, and potentially out earn men.

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Simple Rich Living Reply:
November 25th, 2011 at 1:02 am

I think most women know what they want but they are too afraid to change (ie too afraid to leave if they are already in a dead end relationship or is dating a jerk) or afraid that they won’t be able to able find someone else.

So true about ‘people are who they are and you’re not gong to change them very much (if at all)…’

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Financial Samurai Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 5:21 am

Women really NEED to get out of a relationship they don’t like. If they spend their 20s and early 30s with a deadbeat, then it really hurts her chances to find another one, since women prefer older men, and older men therefore have to choice but to go out with younger women.

It’s just mathematics of what’s available. Men get older, they have a wider choice. Women get older, and there are less older men.

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I totally agree with your “Men and Women both cheat equally” ..one reason women prefer that douche bag, is a sense of control. They know deep down they have an upper-hand on a guy who is jobless, etc etc, because they got the job, they provide for them selves etc…but when they meet a guy who has his stuff together, it becomes a challenge and all insecurities come out, questions arise, which you pointed out too, such as “Am I going to be able keep this guy?”, “He is not only wanted by me, but desired highly by others’ etc etc.

Personally speaking, I hate insecurities in a woman. I like to date someone on the same wavelength as my self, there are ton’s of women and men who are leaches, don’t know what they want, insecure and think that grass is greener on the other side, but unfortunately it’s not most of the time.

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Financial Samurai Reply:
May 24th, 2011 at 10:47 am

Hmmm, control issues for women huh? I guess I like that for a little bit. But, after a while, it gets old!

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I believe that more than 50% of undergrad degrees, and even a majority of graduate degrees in the US, are now conferred upon females. Women (and men) have the capacity to be financially independent, and don’t need to put up with freeloader or oppressive/controlling antics from anyone. When one person sponges off another without regard for the other’s needs or any sense of fairness, the relationship won’t work in the long run.

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Financial Samurai Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 5:22 am

I think you’re right. Maybe it’s over 50% of college graduates are women.

Yet despite this and that, the situation still exists. Can’t fight love!

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Many people are dazzled by the excitement that some of these “deeadbeat losers” may have. The individuals are fun to be around, but no depth. They are spontaneous because they have no plans for life. Why are women attracted to them? It is simple, they like the excitement and fun part of the relationship! They overlook the bad aspects because of the excitement. Low self esteem may prevent women from moving on.
Why do people stay in the work environment is complacency. It is hard to make a change! Most people will put up with a bad job/career because they are afraid of the unknown. Usually it takes some incident to make them do something. Could it relate to low esteem, self confidence or ambition?
In many ways there is a parallel between putting up with a bad job/career and a deadbeat loser! People are willing to put up with a bad situation because of many of the same reasons.

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Financial Samurai Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 5:23 am

The older a person gets, the more scary the unknown will be. It becomes a Catch 22. Hence, the advice is to Get Out Yesterday!

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krantcents Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 8:15 am

As I get older, I am less scared of the unknown because there is very little I have not done. I am less likely to change because I am less adventurous, flexible or willing to risk.

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Financial Samurai Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 8:19 am

Even so, if you were older and single, it becomes that much harder. Look at it from another’s perspective of how they look at you.

I’m not sure we ‘settle’ for the deadbeat losers out of low self-esteem or fear of the unknown.

We date deadbeat losers because we foolishly think we can ‘change’ a man by releasing his inner ambition, sense of direction and zest for life, in much the same way we think that buying him a set of dumb bells will ultimately reveal his true adonis physique. Many of us ladies believe that it just takes ‘the right woman’ to affect some incredible metamorphosis and often we rate ourselves as the girl for the job.

It’s only when we realise that leopards really don’t change their spots that we’ll stop giving deadbeat losers the time of day.

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Financial Samurai Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 5:24 am

Yeah, the dumbbells won’t work b/c us guys already believe we have the Adonis physique already.

Funny how it takes YEARS for some women to realize the leopards yeah?

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It’s hard to find someone who is compatible so I think women are reluctant to let go of the dead weight. It’s like a good job that pay well that you don’t really like. It’s hard to let go of that big fat pay check. :)
The guy might be a loser, but if he does something right once in a while, it will be hard to let go.

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Simple Rich Living Reply:
November 25th, 2011 at 1:05 am

Agree :)

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Financial Samurai Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 5:24 am

It a world with 7 billion, is it really that hard?

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Psychology 101: Women who date losers feel like they can change them. They tend to stay longer then they should because their logic is “I know he does X, and doesn’t have Y, you’ve seen him act like Z, but he’s also a really sweet guy when we’re alone.” They want to bring out the best in them.

It’s almost like a project for the woman, especially for the seemingly smart and strong-willed one.

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Financial Samurai Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 5:25 am

Then that’s a great irony if the woman is a seemingly smart and strong-willed one no?

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Definitely agree with retirebyforty and Hannah, and miss Moneypenniless

I think back then, I was deluding myself to think that he was ambitious and he was alright. I think I was trying to change him, by trying to make him more motivated like I was, by trying to get him that job.

There were a few trivial reasons why I broke it off with him and decided to go for a “fresh new start”, it was because a) I got a new car and I didn’t want him sitting in it (haha can you believe it?) and b) I got into a program in school and wanted to start new.

I was happy and complacent with the way he treated me. He was nice, always agreed with me, etc. I was acting more like his mother than his girlfriend, and after that incident, I realized it and decided to put an end to it.

I don’t think it was because I was feeling like I had some low self esteem issues going on at the time, though.

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Financial Samurai Reply:
May 23rd, 2011 at 11:00 pm

Thanks for providing more insight! I was just thinking out loud the various reasons for people in general to stick with someone suboptimal. It’s kind of scary, the older we get to break up with someone and start all over again.

Where is the ex BF now?

Your reason a) is hilarious!

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youngandthrifty Reply:
May 23rd, 2011 at 11:05 pm

hmm not sure where ex BF is now. I think he was bumming off another girl for a little while. But from my facebook stalking, I think they broke up recently. haha :)

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You hit all the reasons on the head Sam. I too dated some losers in my younger days because I didn’t feel like anyone else could love me, appreciate me, etc. Then later on I realized that I was a good catch and shouldn’t settle for losers. Now I am happily married and much happier.

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Financial Samurai Reply:
May 24th, 2011 at 10:49 am

Good to hear Miss T that you’ve found one who cares for you equally as much! I wonder if I should follow up with a post on a role reversal of titles.

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I agree with everything you wrote with one exception. I am a man and I don’t fear being alone. I want a woman to share my life with at some point, but right now I am more afraid of being attached and losing my freedom, independence, and party lifestyle than being alone.

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Financial Samurai Reply:
May 24th, 2011 at 10:50 am

Give it 5-10 more years Eric! If you’re single then, you *might* change your mind! If not, keep having kites of fun!

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Eric Reply:
May 24th, 2011 at 11:18 am

Very true. I hope to be married in 5-10 years. But today: freedom!

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Good points in your post and in the comments. Some women like projects and want to feel in control and try to mold a guy into a perfect shape. That’s a recipe for disaster!

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Interesting view points. I’m going to throw out there that women are attracted to the “bad boy” image. Adventure, excitement, glory and the image they might believe they get when they date the “bad boy”.

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Daniel Rosenhaus Reply:
May 25th, 2011 at 10:57 am

I agree, there are other psychological benefits to dating a “deadbeat”. As long as they aren’t actively treating the other like crap, degrading them or even abusing them. In addition to dating a “bad boy”, dating a loser can make a girl feel good about herself by:

a) feeling superior to them
b) the joy of caring for someone
c) knowing they hold the power.

These are powerful feelings that involve instant gratification and not as long term as being with someone who is best for you as you grow older.

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dont’ forget about girls who have “dad” issues. If her dad didn’t treat them very well or wasn’t very loving to her up, this severely impacts how a girl views herself. Girls will pick what’s familiar, so if her dad treater her subpar, that’s what’s familiar, so that’s what she goes for. Unless she is aware of it and works to break the cycle.

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Hannah Reply:
May 24th, 2011 at 2:34 pm

Cliche, but true! Another Psychology 101 theory of course.

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Who said love had to be logical?

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Maybe women date losers because said women aren’t pretty enough to be on the radar of non-loser men. Men can be SO shallow. I’m almost 40 now, and I’ve always been passed up by guys (of all ages, viewpoints and looks, I’m definitely not picky with looks) for women that are blonde and gorgeous. I’m told that I make a GREAT friend, and I’m ‘one of the guys’, and “a guy’s best friend”, but the fact is that I’m not pretty, so men have a hard time being physically attracted to me. Someone like me can either find a loser (I have a felon friend who’s interested in me), or stay single. So, I’m single. (and yes, I’ve tried several dating sites, with no luck. Once I post my picture, all interest fades. No, I’m not fat, and my looks aren’t anything fixable short of plastic surgery).

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Financial Samurai Reply:
May 25th, 2011 at 11:27 pm

BD, thanks for your very candid thoughts. You sound like a beautiful person to me :). Also, brunettes are better anyway.

Your felon friend might have changed his ways though. You never know! Everyone deserves a second or even third chance. But, it’s up to you. Best

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My sister drug me to see Bridesmaids and Kirsten Wiig’s character in the movie is dating a deadbeat, a total loser who is using her for sex. Wiig’s character displays exactly why women date these kinds of men; they don’t believe they deserve any better and feel they don’t have control of their own circumstances. I know that years ago, this was why I dated one myself – a feeling of no control over your own life. Thankfully, I’ve grown much wiser with age. ;)

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Financial Samurai Reply:
November 24th, 2011 at 8:23 am

Doesn’t the deadbeat, John Hamm have a 911?! I finally saw the movie on my flight back from Europe last month! lol. Hilarious! I like the bigger woman who goes potty in the sink at the wedding dress store.

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Little House Reply:
November 25th, 2011 at 6:13 pm

You’re right; that character – John Hamm – had money, but you can still be considered a “loser” with money. Money isn’t everything. ;) The dress store scene is hilarious, I agree.

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Financial Samurai Reply:
November 25th, 2011 at 6:56 pm

I donno. I’d date a hot woman who drives a Carerra 4S Cabriolet. Shrug, but that’s just me!

You people are all thinking too logically. It really comes down to how girls respond emotionally. Even as a guy, do I respond logically or emotionally to a woman? Don’t I want a girl with big fake boobies right now? But logically, would such a woman who decided to get implants be the ideal mother to my child? I respond EMOTIONALLY not LOGICALLY. If the girl was a scumbag who did drugs and was crazy, etc., wouldn’t most guys still be emotionally responsive to her? (The ones who say NO may be rationalizing this because they could not expect to find other similarly hot girls once she moves on…or is fearful of expressing his desires, which is totally normal; slap on the wrist for liking girls, that’s not socially acceptable to show!)

First of all, you’re calling them “losers” because well, whoop de dooo, guys who have no jobs can get hot girlfriends, yet you as a rich nerd engineer/accountant/whatever cannot.

Not trying to be a dick, as I myself was that super nerd who graduated with a high GPA from a top-ranked school, made 80K/yr working at a big software company at 22yo, could afford anything I wanted, had a cool apartment where I could be all alone by myself.

I’m now 27yo, spent the last 3 years bumming around, barely working, and well, girls definitely respond a lot more to me now than they did before…a LOT more…and well, now I see how badly I want it both ways…a love life and $$$, so I’m working on the $$$ part again.

If you want some logical explanation of it all…women deep-down like guys who are relaxed, do their own thing, trust that everything will work out, and who don’t give a shit what other people think about them. Not having a job == a guy who doesn’t have to worry about some dick boss seeing what the guy is doing and not liking it and firing him. If you have a job, you’ve got to live up to some other people’s expectations. I can’t just say “Yeah bro, suck it” when he says I’m late. Jobless guy == can totally do that.

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Financial Samurai Reply:
November 24th, 2011 at 8:22 am

Why have you been bumming around for 3 years after your 80K job right out of college? Were you let go?

The problem with being a jobless guy is that the relationships are temporary if he continues to not to have a job and never goes anywhere. Why? B/c people are rational. Why wouldn’t a girl just go after a good looking, nice guy, WITH a job?

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I think most women honestly just think they can give the guy a makeover. Or maybe they’ve stopped looking at men in terms of what they can achieve with a union with ala Jane Austen novels?

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I think it goes both ways.

When we are young and in school, we are more equal. So maybe the normal girl dates the normal guy and it even makes sense, but then the normal girl blossoms both in appearance and in intellect. Perhaps the male doesn’t because he like drinking beer and a good time. Now we have a problem, the new female knockout is dating a loser (or really a less ambitious person). Well, the equation doesn’t make sense anymore and it’s obvious…

Sometimes the knockout just looks good but doesn’t have the self awareness to get out of the relationship (same goes with the guys too). This is why I sometimes see very attractive women driving in a beatup truck with some guy that looks like a freak.

I’ve also discovered that women don’t hold the same values as we guys do. Some seem perfect content to live with such less ambitious guys and even find their mate very attractive because they are different. Very odd actually.

Of course kids are also a factor. Even though people say guys don’t matter, I think we do add the the equation when raising kids. Definitely not as much as women matter, but we (males) give a lot of kids that extra stability (at least I think, I’ll know in 10 more years for sure).

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I think this brings up a bigger point about life. That is, knowing when to end something that is no longer healthy for you or the other person. I think it’s very difficult to generalize women or men as a whole. In my experience women in their 30′s go about dating much differently than when they are in their early-to-mid-20′s. In fact, it may be a good thing that some women and some men go through bad relationships earlier on in order to learn what they don’t want or need in a relationship. That way when they are ready, normally when they’re older, they know what qualities to look for in a person, and they will also know what is not compatible.

Another aspect to consider is the generation in question. Many of my friends in my age group are getting married in their 30′s, not their 20′s. Which means they have plenty of time in their early 20′s to figure themselves out as well as what they want in a partner.

Ultimately it comes down to the individual person in question, and it’s really hard to generalize women dating a certain type of guy because to some extent a young woman in her early 20′s dating a loser is better so she can learn early on, instead of a woman in her 30′s making the mistakes she probably should have been making 10years prior. Life is a learning experience once you experience something bad your mind is programmed to either fight or take flight. Once you realize there’s nothing worth fighting for catch a flight somewhere else!

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Financial Samurai Reply:
November 25th, 2011 at 7:32 am

The only fear is that what if (guy or girl) you wait until your 30s, and then you lose your competitiveness and stay single forever! Scary!

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motherhood instincts = taking care of losers, correcting bad behavior, etc…just a thought ?

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Financial Samurai Reply:
November 24th, 2011 at 8:20 am

Most likely, probably.

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Yeah I have noticed this and they are usually smokin almost beyond smokin hot women that go for these pathetic down right LOSERS!! Yeah some of these hot women that go for these losers aren’t all that bright but then there are some that are like example (some television news casters), they are smokin hot newscasters, they have great careers, educated but in their personal lives they are with complete LOSER GUY!! Yet then these hot women go all off with their stuck up nose in the air when an actual EDUCATED (college educated) guy, with a great career, nice vehicle, never lived with his parents past high school, self sufficient hits on her and she’s all ugh no. WTF seriously WTF!! WTF are you doing with LOSER BOY that still lives with his parents, never has money, drives a total beat up piece of junk vehicle, never went to college and has a dead end job. WHAT GIVES???? SERIOUSLY women is your self worth, self esteem really that low??? Even though she went to college, has a great career etc is her self esteem really that low??? MAKES NO EFFIN SENSE!! Well then women when you do wake up, don’t start whining about how you think there are no good guys around cause we were just around you, you snubbed us and now that you have wakend up and realized you want the “good guy” for solid relationship don’t start bit*hing cause we were right under your nose and we left you cause you were acting like a total bi*ch to us!!

Wake up women Loser Boy isn’t going to change!! Leave him, dump him, throw him to the curb. We educated, great career, nice vehicle, never living at parents home after high school guys are right the eff under your nose. Quit being the stuck up bit*hes and date us!!!! Loser boy doesn’t deserve you!!

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Financial Samurai Reply:
November 24th, 2011 at 8:20 am

What if loser boy is filthy rich and has a wealthy family too?!

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M Reply:
November 25th, 2011 at 6:13 pm

That’s just dreamin…. In reality the so called “loser boy” typically doesn’t come from a well off family. The “loser boys” are the ones that usually don’t have much of any money, always asking the parents for money, drives the piece of crap vehicle and doesn’t have a sense of direction. Were talking about deadbeat losers that don’t do anything to improve themselves, they don’t have anything and have not sense of direction. There the junky, filthy disgusting, scrungy guys that are useless, they never have money and are constantly poor.. blah blah blah… There is no such loser boy that are wealthy. Some of those trust funders are just plain lazy cause they obviously can be and have never had to have a sense of direction.

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Financial Samurai Reply:
November 25th, 2011 at 6:57 pm

Hmmm, I donno about that! Are you a guy or girl? You can start a new thread as this one runs out. Thx

Re youngandth: You stated in your comment: He was nice, always agreed with me, etc. gawd that’s a huge turnoff for both men and women. He sounds like a total wuss especially with the agreeing part. Women constantly say that’s one of their biggest pet peeves in men is when they have a man that constantly agrees with them i.e. wussie. I think some men need the assurance that if he doesn’t agree with you with everything that your not going to bail on him but instead you like him that much more for having his own opinion etc. etc. I think for some men they are nervous that if they disagree with her on some opinion that she’s going to get all huffy, pout and leave. Both men and women when they get into a relationship they both obviously need reassurance that it’s ok to disagree or agree to disagree.

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Why women date men who are losers or don’t treat them the way they deserve to be treated? A woman gets smitten when said type man is wooing her aggressively so logical thinking is out the window. Once the dating/relationship begins, she realizes he is not everything he said he was, she naively thinks he would change for her. She would then be in this stage of denial/wishful thinking for sometime (too long for many) before she gives up.

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M Reply:
November 25th, 2011 at 6:21 pm

“She would then be in this stage of denial/wishful thinking for sometime (too long for many) before she gives up.” This stage for men is pretty funny cause we men want to go up to her and give her the ol “bi*tc* slap into reality. Also men can see through that sh*t were like why is she with him, he is loser boy and we guys can see that from a mile away. Sometimes women could easily use guidance from a guys perspective and lead her to the guy she should be with lol :)!! That guy being her guide lol!! Cause we just know instinctively what’s right for her ha ha :)!! For some women the world would be a whole lot easier if they just let us men guide them in the right direction lol!! Yeah yeah yeah ladies you can call me an a**hole… Oh wait you ladies apparently like a**holes lol… I’m availble lol!!

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One thing is that women love attention. It’s very easy to convince a woman you are a great guy if you give her a lot of attention and compliments.

Even if a guy turns bad, a woman will always remember the time she was treated well. By this time, the guy has already moved on, mentally at least.

Woof!

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So many facets to explore. What did we learn at home? Were the parents controlling, laissez-faire; more matriarchal or patriarchal? How educated were the parents? Was education stressed?

Many times we think that we can change what we do not like. Sometimes it’s like a rescue operation. Men and women may think of different things, but change and rescue are probably primary. Right up there with perceived rewards; what we think we “deserve.”

My first marriage was crap for many of these reasons. Not to mention that she and I were both too hard-headed back then. Now in my second round, things are going very well. Both of us had some decent lessons that contributed to a better round this time.

But I think that it boils down to what we (as male or female) learned at home and in society at large. Our society places women in a distant second place. If that notion is compounded on the home front, girls growing up will have a more difficult time. Lead your children by example, not by lecture. Same with your subordinates in the office or the field. Actions always speak so much more loudly and clearly.

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I don’t think so: that women consider the men in this way. It is ridiculous. Even being a woman I know my rights and I don’t prefer to follow men blindly.

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