There have been a number of data points recently that have caught me off guard. Apparently, there are people in this world who actually work 40 hours a week or less and complain why they can’t get ahead!
I understand if you are retired, a student, handicapped, doing heavy manual labor, or under-employed how you might not work 40 hours a week. But, I’ve only heard about places like France where people work less than 40 hours a week and start going on strike if they have to work more.
Working 40 hours a week or less is fantastic if you are happy with your income and career, not bored out of your mind, and can get away with it. Unfortunately, I am neither skilled enough to do what I want with that little amount of time, nor do I have the courage to work so little for what I am being compensated for. I think I would probably get fired if I worked that little.
Besides, I have at least 60 hours of work energy in me a week at the age of 40. Might as well utilize it before it fades, because I used to have 80 hours of work energy in my 20s!
Folks Who Complain Why They Can’t Get Ahead While Working So Little
Data point #1: Two women on the bus were chatting next to me and explaining what a long day at work they had. It was 6:30pm and one woman said, “Thank goodness the day is over! I got in an hour early at 8:30am and am absolutely exhausted!” She’s exhausted for being in the office for nine hours and taking an hour long lunch break? Sign me up! In equities banking, we lowly analyst had to get in at 5:30 am to run errands and print out research for our traders, and then stay until at least 7:30 pm!
Data point #2: For some reason, my article “How Much Do The Top Income Earners Make By Percentage?” continues to get random commenters (1,200+ now) who turn the simple question into a political and social debate about why the rich should be paying more taxes, and the lower 50% should be paying even less taxes. One commenter says I’m out of touch with reality when I explain that anybody who really wants to be in the Top 50% of income earners ($33,000) can do so if they wanted to. All you have to do is work 63 hours a week at $10 to make $33,000 a year! He says that’s ridiculous as he can’t make that working 40 hours a week (no kidding).
Data point #3: My friend in HR said her firm is implementing overtime compensation for certain level of workers who work more than 40 hours a week. I asked her why her firm was rewarding their workers for working hours they’re supposed to anyway? That’s like rewarding the cable guy who comes within the allotted window! She giggled and shrugged. If I am the CEO, and you command overtime compensation for working more than 40 hours a week, I will do my best to refer you to my competitor to blow them up.
Data point #4: A blogger who moved to a foreign country to experience location independence, swims for hours a day, “works” about 30 hours a week and says he’s burned out. He’s upset that he’s not making more than $1,000-$2,000 a month with his info-products and online job opportunities. He’s so burned out that he took a week off to re-charge his batteries. In other words, he took a vacation from his vacation.
You’d think as a full-time blogger working 3-5 hours a day that you’d probably post every day and never burn out. But, he only posts 2 to 3X a week and writes that he’s frustrated nobody has given him a book deal. Come on now. $1,000-$2,000 ain’t too shabby for kicking back! The blogger is in his late 30s now, still lives in his mother’s basement, but has finally taking hard work to heart and is producing a pretty good podcast on living unconventional lives.
Data point #5: There were four 20-something year olds just lounging in these recliners at Starbucks, surfing the web, and doing absolutely nothing but goof off for the entire 1.5 hours I was meeting up with a client. This was midday on a Wednesday. One guy starts saying how his firm hired someone senior than him to do his job, and how angry he was for not being recognized more. Then this other guy who was listening to music off his laptop chimes in that he’s been looking for a programming job for months.
This is San Francisco, where if you have programming skills, you are hired for $100,000 at 22 years old. Watching YouTube videos, surfing the web, and playing games on your laptop at a coffee shop during the middle of the day does not get you anywhere. Taking 1.25 hour coffee breaks in the afternoon if you are working doesn’t not help you get promoted either.
Data point #6: After publishing the post, Are You Too Proud to Be Rich?, a lot of people complained in the comments section they don’t have the capacity to side hustle to make extra money. It’s as if once the clock strikes 5 pm, no more work can be done. Meanwhile, I just wrote that all these first generation immigrants side-hustling and making more than these private school graduate Uber employees! Why wouldn’t you want to start your own website to try and leverage the internet to make more money? There are millions of people out there who are making extra money via the gig economy and online.
Data point #7: In an open letter to her CEO, 24 year old Talia wrote, “I was told I’d have to work in support for an entire year before I would be able to move to a different department. A whole year answering calls and talking to customers just for the hope that someday I’d be able to make memes and twitter jokes about food.” WTF. Since when was working an “entire year” so bad before getting a promotion?
Data point #8: Bo, a Creative Writing/English major from University of Colorado said he and other people were crying at their desks constantly while working for Amazon, according to a New York Times article. Bo lasted for 1 year, 10 months at his book marketing role so he could do something more special, like work at a startup called Yessler, where he lasted for 1 year and 6 months before moving to Microsoft, where he’s been there for 8 months. Will he ever be able to last for two years at one place? Or will things just be too hard on him?
Do People Really Work Less Than 40 Hours A Week And Complain?
Are there really people out there who only work 40 hours or less a week and complain why they can’t get ahead or make enough money? That’s like slacking off in school and expecting to go straight to the corner office. Ain’t gonna happen.
I don’t think I’ve ever worked less than 40 hours a week when I was still working a day job and healthy. Day job work is around 55-60 hours a week and online work is another 20 hours of side hustle work for a total of 75-80 hours. Add on 35-42 hours a week for sleep, that still leaves 50 hours a week to spend with family, friends, and extracurricular activities.
It’s not like the 75-80 hours a week spent on work is all work either. It’s fun to interact online, go play golf with clients, get some lunch and earn some income in the process.
Perhaps society has manipulated people into believing that 40 hours a week is a normal time to spend on the job or on an endeavor.
There are two ways to get ahead: 1) Work harder and smarter than everybody else and 2) Make everybody else work less and dumber. If you ask any super successful person how many hours a week they work I can guarantee you that it’s way more than 40 hours a week.
Do you think President Obama or President Trump works only 40 hours a week? Hell no! They regularly work 60-70 hours a week and are on call 24-7. Do you think Fake News King Mark Zuckerberg works 40 hours a week? He worked around the clock to build Facebook to what it is today. Do you think doctors don’t study night and day for their MCATs to then go on single digit work hour rounds? The answer is “no,” and you all know that.
Stop being so lazy and abolish welfare mentality! We’ve got an immigrant janitor here in San Francisco who makes $271,000 a year due to working tons of overtime. He’s not alone either! His elevator/escalator technician makes $284,000 a year due to working way more than 40 hours a week as well. He’s not alone either! Managers at In N’ Out Burger earn on average $160,000 a year without a college degree.
The list goes on and on about people who work more than 40 hours a week in regular jobs and make handsome six-figure salaries.
40 Hours A Walk In The Park
If you can work 40 hours a week and be satisfied with what you have, more power to you. However, if you are complaining about life and why you don’t have enough money and only work 40 hours a week, you need to get your head checked.
We live in a very competitive society and anybody who wants to be better than average can’t work 40 hours and expect to be more than they’re not.
Update 2H2019: Now that I’m 7.5 years into retirement, I finally see the joys of slacking off. I’ve only been working ~25 hours a week on this site in 2019 so far, and am loving the leisure time and lower levels of stress. But, in order to be able to chillax after age 40, I first had to put in the extra hours when I was younger. Trust me, you won’t regret the effort you put in when you were younger. Not a day goes by where I’m not thankful to be able to spend every day taking care of my newborn son, instead of having to commute to an office and work at a job that I don’t love.
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I work 35-40 hours per week and make $145,000 plus bonus plus stock options plus a 100% passive side income. All told, I am at around $300,000 per year. NEVER worked more than a 40 hour week in my life. And I don’t plan to. If I were given a choice to quit or work more than 40 hours, I’d quit any day. Because of smart investments (NOT working crazy hours all of my life), I am able to quit if I so choose. Work smart. Not hard.
Life is short. Perhaps you have been fortunate enough not to have lost anyone you love. My brother, perfectly healthy, died unexpectedly of a freak heart attack (age 61). My cousin also died unexpectedly at age 45. (Again: a freak medical issue that he showed no symptoms of.) My mom died within four months of being diagnosed with a glioblastomo brain tumor. My dad died eight months after my mom. None of them were able to take their money with them in death. Unless you have figured a way to do that, then why the bloody h*!! are you advocating everyone kill themselves while alive?
So if you think working those hours is “getting you ahead” in life, great. But how much life do you have left. What if, God forbid, you are like my cousin and literally drop dead at work on a Monday morning at age 45? He, again, was perfectly healthy and had just passed his annual physical the Thursday before with flying colors.
There is more to life than work. What kind of meaning are you getting from life? What memorable life moments are you creating with and for those you love? What deep, lasting, memorable moments are you creating for YOU?! How will your loved ones remember you? What “treasured memories” will they have? “Being lazy” takes on many forms–not just financial. One can “be lazy” in how much time and attention one gives to friends, family, pets, etc.
I know my comments are falling on deaf ears. You’re in a different place in your life and are incapable of true understanding because (again, thank God) you likely haven’t had the kind of soul-crushing, heart breaking loss that many others have experienced. (That is not a judgement; it’s just a statement of fact. Like you, before experiencing loss through death of loved ones, intellectually I could understand the comments about loss and living life to the fullest. But emotionally, I was incapable of undestanding.
Post again in 10 or 15 years (hoping you are still alive). I’d be interested to see how your perspective changes.
In the meantime, I truly hope you can get more of a life than just working and focusing on your financial statements.
I agree. If you don’t want to get ahead, don’t work longer than 40 hours a week. If you do want to try to get ahead, it’s probably worth working longer hours as there are an endless number of things to learn and do.
Everything is rational and I’m glad you have found your perfect balance.
“If you don’t want to get ahead, don’t work longer than 40 hours a week,” is debatable. While “getting ahead” is relative, I would say Heather’s description of her life would certainly qualify.
Keeping your work to 40 hours while being as efficient and intentional as possible, can produce better results than the average person working 60+ hours. It’s about the results you produce in your work week, not the number of hours you work to get them.
I only work 40 hours a week on average. From 2015-2018 I doubled my income and received a promotion. Since 2018, I have increased my income by another 50%. I have recently been selected to be the director of our first satellite office in another city, which will be another promotion and increase in income. You can certainly get ahead while working 40 hours a week, but you need to bust your a** for those 40 hours.
Capitalist propaganda at its finest. I know people who work those types of hours, I also know many people who abuse various amphetamines to do so. Have you ever heard of a nervous breakdown? Wall Street blow-ups? Work yourself to death, become a cog. Die of stress knowing they’ll just replace you with someone better than you. That’s what capitalism wants. This article itself (despite the disclaimer) is completely ignorant of the fact that most people in our society age, possess ailments, mental health issues, have large families and are immigrants. So yes, I would much rather have time to spend with my family, working on my health, working on my personal growth. Where I work, you don’t get hundred dollar business lunches. You don’t get to play golf with your colleagues. You work all day on your feet until midnight. So tell me, where is the room for balance? How do you spend time with your children? I assume one day you’ll be Cats and the Cradling your own children. Pity. All so that they can run around in cute little brand name sneakers and tote the latest phones and go to upper echelon universities, right? Thanks to you your children will become cogs too. Working more doesn’t make you more valuable to society, it just means they’ve got you whipped.
Learn how to program. 40 hour weeks with $79-$100k starting.
I’m actually super shocked by the shaming that is happening in this article. This is an extremely antiquated way of looking at ‘getting ahead in life.’ For once, people are looking for balance. Finally, people realize that you’re not promised tomorrow, let alone being able to be alive long enough to enjoy the retirement you’re saving for. You’re judging young professionals sitting in a coffee shop on a Wednesday for talking about their career challenges. Ever think their job let them out early that day? Or maybe they took an important mental health day? Or this was their/their friend’s special birthday so they chose friendship over work for just one day. And here you are judging. Shameful.
I actually used to look at people who worked 60+ hours a week and think “yikes – good on you, but there’s other things in life to enjoy.”
I finally started getting ahead in my career and life when I STOPPED putting in 40+ hours a week. It made me work smarter. I got ahead because of what I brought to the table, not because I sat at it 40+ hours every week. Here’s the bottom line – if you can’t get your job done in under 40 hours per week you’re either not working smart and efficient, taking on too much, or you’re doing the job of two people which, in my experience, rarely equates to moving up the ladder anymore – it just means the organization found a willing and able body to cut costs for them.
It all depends on what you cherish most in this world. For some it’s work. For others it’s time with friend, family, animals, non profit work, taking an active role in the community whether it’s work or play. But no matter what you choose – you have the absolute right, as long as you’re doing your job well, to seek higher paying opportunities within a 40 hour work week.
That’s the thing. Anybody can do anything they want. They just have to be CONGRUENT with their desire and their effort. I hope people understand this point.
Everything is rational in the end. This is one of the reasons why America is so great.
Best of luck to you!
Dear Tracy – Its wonderful if you value other things in life, just do not expect someone to compensate you for the non-monetary rewards you are happy with. I think the author is simply pointing out the hypocisy of expecting both. And – there are many many professions which CANNOT be excelled at within a 40 hour week. Period.
Enjoy life – and let us who also want to achieve intellectual and professional excellence enjoy that. If the things someone wants to do brings economic value in the marketplace, great. If they don’t – then the person should build that marketplace… and it will not happen in a 6 hour a day effort!
Let’s just admit it, we have become soft, lazy and self indulgenct as a society… which is why your grandchildren will be speaking mandarin to their bosses – and should NOT expect their ‘right’ to be a fulfilled individual to be respected!
You’ve fallen so deep into the trap of unfettered capitalism that you really believe someone needs to be spending more than a third of their time as a conscious, breathing person working.
Laura, I really pity you and the mindset you’ve been tricked into adopting. We haven’t become soft and lazy… we’ve become aware of what should be healthy and sustainable working conditions, and we’re just waiting for the employers to catch up with that.
I want you to really think about your comment that someone who doesn’t want to work 40 hours a week does not deserve to be a happy person. Think about that. Take thirty seconds of your time, if you aren’t more interested in filling it with needless work, and think about what you said there. Thanks.
YES, Rachel. Yes. Thank you for this comment, couldn’t have said it better myself.
You are so lame keep working 10 hours at week then I could care less
Would love some Input into my situation. I work 60 a week in manual labor job and it’s just breaking me. I’m in FULL BLOWN crisis mode to find a new career. Being number and word dyslectic has hurt me professionally, but I am determined like like a RAGING BULL to figure it out. When I was younger I wanted Ferrari’s and Lamborghinis and mansions. Now I just want a paid off small condo anywhere on Long Island. Not afraid of the hood, of all my flaws at least I’m tough as nails. I love the blog FINANCIAL SAMURAI but at my 60 hours I’m about to breakdown before my 30th birthday, I understand the hard work aspect but this cannot go on for me so your post strings a cord of mine (anger) because I feel as though I have no confidence that I will be successful in a different endeavor Me living on Long Island I have a few months of trying to make it in a new career before the safety funds run out. Any advice to the gig stuff I could do?
Crickets.
The system is BROKEN
No one should “have to work 60 hours or more” just to make ends meet, ffs. What dumb idiocy
“Be a slave to your employer so you can HOPEFULLY, at some point, make enough money to pay the bills and PERHAPS enjoy life in what little free time you have left.”
Yeah… no. F that :P
Also… seizing the means of production, so that FAR MORE STAKEHOLDERS in big companies’ operations, profits, and the like, get a say, not just a handful of “corporate oligarchs” at the top, wouldn’t hurt, either. Like… a handful of greedy “a-holes” at the top of each big or medium-sized company SHOULD GET TO DECIDE so much, all on their own, as if they “know best for everyone”, esp. EVERY EMPLOYEE working there?? As if… the employees- let alone average consumers and residents in the area- “don’t know jack”… lol. This is a very short-sighted approach to “economy”, if you ask me!
If the economy, more or less, is “run by” or “led by” only a HANDFUL OF PEOPLE, then… don’t be surprised when the economy, more or less, SERVES those same people, primarily, w/ the rest of us ‘getting the scraps’ of their various ‘innovations’, companies founded, jobs created, ‘growth’ produced, etc. etc.
and yet… we’re supposed to believe this VERY-LIMITED economic system (modern capitalism) is somehow “super empowering”?? rofl
What a JOKE
Ok. Do you have any suggestions on how to outperform the average person without working harder than the average person or taking more risks than the average person?
Yes! I am entitled to having a rich life with everything and anything I want just like anybody else because I’m an American. Why should I have to work hard or work more than others to get ahead. I deserve the best.
People like you or making it difficult for other people to have a good life.
Ok sorry. I will try to work less and relax more. There is an upside because that way I can spend more time with my little ones.
Related: https://www.financialsamurai.com/the-secret-to-your-success-10-years-of-unwavering-commitment/
Hey Sam,
I appreciate your articles. I negotiated a severance package because of an article of yours that I read, so thank you! My thing is that at my old company I was a very hard worker but had a bully for a boss that psychologically tortured me to the point that my performance went down. I couldn’t think clearly and got burnt out. I’m in the process of starting my own business now, but am terrified to go back to corporate if I need to. In your article “career killers” you said to know your place, but I just couldn’t take being bullied after being a star preformer so I stood up for myself and that’s when my performance went down because of my bosses ego. How do you navigate those political waters without losing it?
Nice job negotiating a severance!
taking financial advice from a obvious communist? real smart…
sure, you do indeed work too much, you shouldnt work more than 38 hours for your long-term health, but this nutjob is a self-entitled brat who thinks the world owes “a gold medal” just cos he was born in a place. ppl like him are the reason most of the world hates america. he doesnt think he should have to work for any reward, it should just be handed to him, “cos entitlement”
I’m not. I’m just being respectful and entertaining his ideas.
In 2020, I’d like to ideally work 30 hours a week to build enough capital by end of 2022 in order to retire early and spend time with my young children again.
See: https://www.financialsamurai.com/my-early-retirement-master-plan-fire-by-45/
Pathetic article. You people really have nothing better to do in your life than work? I’m a freelance programmer and I work 20 hours a week or less. The rest of my time I do my hobbies, read, meet with my friends etc. I feel seriously sorry for people who are proud of themselves working a lot. That’s just so freakin’ sad.
Not only that, but the dude admits in his first paragraph that the reason he has to work so much is because he has no skills and is committed to not learning any. Then he talks about how he’d be fired if he works less than 40. No shit, you aren’t valuable. People who work less than 40 and still have their job because they can do things you can’t do. How is that hard to understand? It’s the old American “I’m better than you because I constantly put my nose to the grindstone.” No. You constantly put your nose to the grindstone because you don’t have another option and are too dumb and lazy to create one.
^^ This
You’re a moron
I should add (to my previous comment) that working more than 40 hours to truly “get ahead” isn’t so bad, if we define “get ahead” by “becoming very wealthy”. But a job ought to just be a job, and ought te be done within 40 hours, management positions included. Ordinary or even slightly above average salaries simply are not worth the additional hours spent.
As for me, I did work over 40 hours, for a while, as I was trying to “get ahead”. My day looked like so: 1 hour to get ready for work, 1.5 – 2 hour commute, 4 hours work, 30 mins break, 4 hours work, 1.5 – 2 hour commute home. The days were long. On top of that, frequently we had evening or over-the-weekend deploys (I’m a software developer) and I did not complain and did those, too. Sure, it helped: I got a promotion to team lead and a marginal raise, and the company said they envisioned Many Good Things for my future, and showed me the various trajectories to what I’d like to call Management Nirvana.
But despite being cognitively able to cope just fine (I was not depressed or burnt out at all), I did notice I could feel my heart pounding, as I did experience stress and had a lack of sleep. I figured I’d be fine since I’m only in my twenties, and common knowledge teaches heart attacks only really happen when your at least in your forties, so I wasn’t too concerned.
Then, around 1 year in, I noticed a bunch of bald patches on the top/back of my head. That’s right: hair loss caused by stress. I wasn’t too bothered, but upon closer inspection of myself, I’d additionally noticed: an increase in facial wrinkles, a higher resting heart rate, and a higher body fat %.
I realised this is the trajectory to an early death, and decided to change course.
For me, I’ve been wanting to start my own business, but with ongoing bills and demanding jobs, this, of course, isn’t easy to pull off. So, I did something in between: I went freelance, first. See, freelance hourly rates are a lot higher than ordinary wage slave hourly salaries. The main difficulties are that it takes a hell of a lot more organising: you need to make sure you have an ongoing feed of gigs, you can’t just spend all your money as it comes in but need to “spread it out” incase of harder times, you need to figure out what risks you are incurring as you are not insured for certain things, etc. But the payoff if you manage to do these things is significant.
By going freelance, I was able to double my yearly net income. I then was VERY STRICT WITH MYSELF and did not increase my expenses (save a few smaller things that I’d been wanting for ages, like better clothes). Instead, I saved & saved & saved and am now living on my savings, self-funding by business that I’m trying to get going.
If I can’t get things running before my savings run out (in about 6 months), I will simply rinse & repeat. Once you are able to only have to work 3 – 6 months a year in order to cover all required expenses, you’re already very close to retirement, but without the initial wait & hustle. I prefer this over investing in stocks etc, because it allows me to LIVE NOW (I’m 29) instead of having to delay my life.
It’s not a massively rich life in terms of wealth, but I get by just fine! 3 months work as a freelance software engineer pays me about the same as an average salaried worker where I live, so I’ve got nothing to complain about. Besides, it was mostly about freedom for me anyways, not about buying a load of junk. I’m a lot more free now than I used to be.
Easy for you to say, you might think, since I’m in software development. Do you realise that there are many, many professions with very decent hourly rates? Dieticians and accountants are just 2 examples that I happen to know to be earning just fine, too.
If you do not have rich relatives which can fund your startup or give you leverage, then your best bet for getting out of your shitty job is to LEARN YOURSELF A SKILL THAT IS VALUABLE IN THE CURRENT ECONOMY and then, crucially, DO NOT BE AFRAID TO ASK WHAT YOU’RE WORTH.
Doesn’t it strike you as odd that despite many women having joined the workforce these past decades AND productivity per individual worker steeply increasing, salaries haven’t kept up at all? We should be at least twice as rich, but we’re not. In fact, we became more poor.
Clearly, salaries as well as prices will just adapt to what the majority of people accept (or tolerate). You in the U.S. should follow France’s example: fight for your freedoms (freedom from poverty, freedom to see your family, etc) and you’ll notice how “magically” salaries will increase compared to prices. The economy will just keep humming on, but now suddenly everybody will be able to get by on 40 hours just fine.
By the by – are you saying you delayed having children until after your 40’s? Many men seem to do that, but obviously for women time is somewhat shorter, as their baby factories might not work anymore by that time.
Also, men, I should inform you that even if you are still fertile over 40, recent research has shown that the chance of DNA defects in your newborn increases massively over age 40, so you might want to consider starting younger anyways…
Search “Older fathers put health of partners, unborn children at risk” and you should be able to find the article.
Some of us do. I’m a programmer. I work probably 35 a week on average. If I’m confronted about it, I get a new job. It’s really all about how easy you are to replace. Honestly I could do 5 hours of work per week and still probably be OK because nobody in this area can program.
I sleep 8 hours each day. Commute 2 hours.
Work 8 hours. Remaining 6 hour are for myself and my family. And taking care of ourselves, family and friends is most important for us. If we are already giving less time to what’s most important,how can we expect more work hours.i would vote for 6 hours day. These hours were defined by factory owners many decades ago, which should change now. We work to earn for living and if their is no time to live, what’s the point.
That’s a tough commute. Any chance of being able to work from home one day a week due to technology?
Also, have you tried sleeping 6-7 hours a day and using the morning to do something else? Could be good! Join The 5 am club I started in the FS Forum to get going.
My personal goal is to retire early again with two kids by Sept 1, 2022. Here’s my Early Retirement Master Plan if you are interested.
Seriously? It’s not how much you work, it’s how you manage what you make. To me, 40 hours is more than enough, especially when you have a home and family.
How long does it take you away from your home? Well, you have to get up and get ready, it takes time to drive there and drive home, and in the middle of the day you have a lunch break. I am 60 now and retired, but for me I was away from home for about 10 hours a day during the work week.
If you’re not complaining about your financial situation, career, etc, then no worries! This post is not for you.
I totally believe kicking back and relaxing is great. But not so much if you want to build wealth.
Building wealth working 60 hrs week? You build wealth by having others work for you 60 hours a week.
True. I need to find me some good people to work long hours so I don’t have to.
Related: The Secret To Your Success: 10 Years Of Unwavering Commitment
40 hours a week is just fine for me. 80 hours means you must not have a life? Being a corporate slave is not high on my list. You baby boomers sure love to work all day and watch football. Talk about a lame lifestyle.
I’m just really surprised at the comments. I can only speak to my experience. I worked fast food when I was kid. Then in college I worked production in manufacturing. In a building that used steam for processing operations and there was no air conditioning in the summer. It was usually over 90 deg inside in the summer. I made it through college paying for a good portion myself. Met my wife later who paid for most of college herself. We both had student loans to pay off.
My first job I only made $36k as salary. But they also paid straight-time overtime which I didn’t quite understand as a salary employee. But I worked a fair amount of overtime. I went to work for another company and worked on an MBA at night. Company had tuition reimbursement so I only had to pay the tax on that reimbursement. At that point I was working about 40 hours a week and then doing another 20+ hours for an MBA. Plus commute time. With a new baby at home. Suffice it to say, it was difficult and I didn’t sleep enough and it was affecting my health but I knew it was temporary.
I don’t feel like I learned a ton in the MBA, but it opened a door for a new job, still in manufacturing. I went to work there. About a year after that, my boss wanted to retire and I raised my hand and volunteered for the job. Nobody else wanted it so I got the job. Got a nice raise because I was low paid person in the department. The people who would now report to me were making more! I still work there, over 10 years now. We’ve helped grow the company 10 fold. There were some bonuses over the years. But the main factor is my salary is higher than average in this LCOL area. I can’t retire early (yet) or anything. But I should be able to pay for retirement and my kids college.
I’m not bragging. And I was blessed to not start out from a single parent home in the inner city at the poverty level. But I went to public schools as a kid and had to work through college. You can get ahead. You have to work your ass off along the way. I’m mid-40’s now, still work roughly 8am to 6pm (sometimes 7pm) with usually a 10min lunch break in the work break room. Plus 1.5 to 2 hours of commute time per day. Plus keeping in touch by phone and email on weekends.
I’m also trying to get better at stock market investing. I started with almost nothing here and am making my way to a good retirement. I’m also dabbling in real estate investing. I don’t have much extra time so I’ve contracted with a property manager who does the day-to-day operations.
I’ve reached a point where when I get home at 7pm or later my brain is mush from the day job. I like to relax a bit with the family and maybe even turn on the TV. But that won’t help me get ahead. So instead of going to bed between 10:30 and 11:30, I’m trying to make sure I’m in bed by 10pm. Then get up at 5am and work on whatever needs done….investments, real estate, etc. It’s working….I’ve found another productive hour in the day that was previously lost being unproductive at the end of the day.
Sorry for the long comment. But the point is, I’m not smarter than anyone else. In fact, I’d say all of the people that report to me are smarter than me. But none of them want my job because I “work too much.” All of the successful managers in my company work a lot. No worries if people only want to work 40 hours in my company. But you’ll never get promoted that way.
My vision: Keep working my ass off. My kids will have college funded. (We may design some student loan debt for them for financial education purposes but that’s optional for us.) We should be able to retire early….but maybe won’t. Invest in some real estate. Create a situation where there is some passive income (real estate) as a backstop….safety net….for future generations. Don’t want the kids to live off a trust fund. But who knows what the future holds.
Trying to make the future bright for my family and future generations that aren’t even born yet by grinding it out now and working harder than (almost) everyone else.
I LOVE your attitude. You have the right money mindset to get ahead.
After writing on Financial Samurai since 2009, one of the key attributes a person needs to have to gain wealth is to have the right attitude. “Why not me too?” when it comes to building wealth.
The only people who recommend taking it easy are your competitors. If you don’t like your situation, make some changes.
Related posts:
The Secret To Your Success: 10 Years Of Unwavering Commitment
Spoiled Or Clueless: Try Working A Minimum Wage Job As An Adult
One other comment that occurred to me. You don’t have to go to college. You don’t have to become a manager. Skilled trades are in demand, at least around here. My company struggles to keep all their jobs filled. It’s a job seeker’s market around here….the midwest, low cost of living area. There are programs out there to learn the trades.
Mike Rowe – The Dirty Jobs guy – has a foundation to encourage people to go into the trades. They have scholarships. Just need to apply. Get a scholarship, become a welder. In the rust belt here you should be able to make $50,000 to $60,000 as a skilled welder. Willing to work hard and put in overtime? You can possibly get to $100,000 per year. Those salaries go a long way in a LCOL area.
I got news for you honey, you really are out of touch if you expect people to be working 60 plus hours a week just to make the minimum required in order to survive in today’s economy. A lot of the older Generations don’t have the particular pain points that today’s younger Generations have… increased cost of living with little-to-no increased compensatory rates to deal with that, increase cost of healthcare, Les housing market, Les housing market for your money, less ability to invest, higher costs of higher education, with less in the way of loans and federal assistance for those higher cost of Education, Etc.
You also seem completely ignorant of the people who want to work 40 hours a week or more and are unable to. I myself I’m still a temp, and I work and an at-will state. I got sent home early Tuesday I got paid no holiday pay for Wednesday, and I have been sent home early today. It’s not because I don’t want to work… It’s because of the people who are working, I’m the lowest on the totem pole, which means I get booted out first, When there’s less for people to do, in order to give the people with higher seniority the ability to work the hours that they have been offered. you also seem completely ignorant of the people who want to work 40 hours a week or more and are unable to. I am myself I’m still attempt, and I work and at will state. I got sent home early Tuesday I got paid no holiday pay for Wednesday, and I have been sent home early today. It’s not because I don’t want to work… It’s because of the people who are working, I’m the lowest on the totem pole, which means I get booted out first, when there’s less for people to do, in order to give the people with higher seniority the ability to work the hours that they have been offered.
You also should not be forced to work overtime just to barely make ends meet. Implying otherwise to me tells me that you come from an age or rather, a generation, where people were actually fairly compensated for their work, work ethic, company loyalty, Etc. Unfortunately things just aren’t that way today. You are completely out of touch with how actual employment versus income vs expense works today. Oh, and to speak to your rather snarky, supercilious comments about people who aren’t working in the middle of the day complaining? Not everybody works implying otherwise to me tells me that you come from an age or rather, a generation, ra people were actually fairly compensated for their work, work ethic, company loyalty, Etc. Unfortunately things just aren’t that way today. You are completely out of touch with how actual employment vs income vs expense works today. Oh, and to speak tear rather snarky, super silly is comments about people who aren’t working in the middle of the day complaining? Not everybody works Monday through Friday 9 to 5 or 9 to 6 or a similar work day, some people actually have to work weekends, which means they have to have a day off during the middle of the week. Or two. As the case may be. Some people also work graveyards, even people who are the Elite like lawyers Etc… Doesn’t mean they’re going to be working your average work day. Also with regards to the two women on the bus, how do you know that that woman didn’t have to get up at 4 in the morning to deal with a young child commute then go pick up young child and commute home? I am scheduled to work from 9:30 a.m. to 6 p.m. Monday through Friday. some people also work graveyards, even people who are the elite like lawyers Etc… Doesn’t mean they’re going to be working your average work day. Also with regards to the two women on the bus, how do you know that that woman didn’t have to get up at 4 in the morning to deal with young child commute then go pick up young child and commute home? I am scheduled to work from 9:30 a.m. to 6 p.m. Monday through Friday. I leave the house every morning by 6 a.m., because I have an hour-long commute to get my son to his child care, then I have to commute back to my work which is an additional 22 30 minutes depending on traffic, then go back to pick him up, then in additional our long or more commute home depending on traffic. So I spend from about 6 a.m. to sometimes as late as 8 p.m. out of the house every single day, away from my seven-month-old son. Do you really think that that’s not a long day, no matter how you twist or describe it?
Just because I’m only scheduled eight or nine hours in a day doesn’t mean that’s all that I’m doing during the day and it doesn’t mean that that’s the only time that I spend away from my home and my family. And I can guarantee you that a lot of the people you’re implying or being lazy, or just aren’t working hard enough, are in the same kind of boats.
So yes, I say again, your way the hell out of touch with reality, and as far as I’m concerned? You’re pretty out of line with your data points 2, which aren’t data points they’re your opinions, just by the way.
The 40 hour work week is literally supposed to bring in enough to live on and half the people i know can’t even do that.
Holy shit what planet do you live on
Slightly daft advice. Maybe it works if you’re a trader, biglaw lawyer, or in IB where you make 150K++ for those extra hours. Maybe it works if you’re an hourly employee, and extra hours actually translate to extra income.
Want to know the situation for most of us? We get in to work, work 40+, and are then paid for 40 hours or less, based on the same salary as 10+ years ago. I suppose I could sue my employer for mandated OT (i.e. to actually pay for the work I’m doing), but I don’t imagine my employment relationship afterwards would be excellent.
Also, frankly, your view as to people who aren’t willing to work unpaid OT is about as myopic as can be. Yes, it’s true enough in IB and biglaw, where it’s not really unpaid OT because you’re being paid a truckload. It’s not true in most salaried positions. The manager making 150K ain’t making jack if he’s not being paid hourly.
Also, though you won’t agree because it won’t fit your agenda, the reality is that golf, meetings with clients, company teambuilding retreats and such are not real work. It’s not to say they don’t add value, but if you’re comparing your lunchtime martini to a janitor literally wiping your shit off the toilet bowl….well you’re quite deluded.
I agree that people should bitch less and work to improve their situations more. Working longer hours though won’t necessarily do that. I went from a 70-80h/w job to a 40-50h/w job which pays me more and requires less overhead (100% remote, etc). That leaves me more time to do things I love, and to focus on earning income in other ways.
Yea Yea high horseman go on pushing that Propaganda to the sheep who might have lapped it up 40 years ago but this generation and the one under it don’t buy that B.S. any more then we believe in Santa Clause and the Tooth Fairy. Math tells the real truth to the story and forms the base of a really easy to understand equation…………#1 Over 40 hours is OT over time in the USA and if your single male or female the tax % rate for OT hours even at minimum wage pay rates is high and it makes it pointless to work more then 50 hours in any one work week or pay period week. Now if your married or have kids or both then you can get away from the Tax hike and Over time becomes slightly more practical for those people who also have a motivation for working 60-70 hours a week leaving only 50 hours for sleep and other activity or 60 depending.
Moving on to the next series of complaints regarding company forced OT and working more then 40 hours per week………..health and personal wealth or gain. People may find it really hard to enjoy those sports or hobbies during retirement age if they are to old and broke down to enjoy the fun. Yea a 65-70 year old man might be able to afford that new Mustang or Corvette but it’s not like that will win him any women other then the gold digger type and I promise that sounds better then the reality of it. Sex is not very fun when your partner is faking it 100% of the time or trying to get out of it 50% of the time. The only way to enjoy some of life’s gifts is when you have youth on your side and health. Health is a gamble at best based mostly on DNA which you and I do not control and it’s handed down to you. Sure you can cheat the reaper for a bit and exercise and eat right and say your night time prayers, take your vitamins, say three hail Marry’s and then go shut the fuck up when you get ball sack cancer at age 43 looking like Mr. Olympia. Life simply does not work the way many think that it does and it simply is not fair and that sucks a big one…………..simple fact of it is that some people have two parents that are either wealthy or close to wealthy and they provide not only a economic boost but a educational and environmental emotional boost for their offspring. The other people don’t enjoy that life so they fight harder and try other paths like the military or work or college after hours. Some go on to make wealth via ideas or via scams………mostly scams.
I can go on all day and probably if I wanted to work hard for free…..provide %’s graphs, and even first person testimony as to why working more does not = more wealth or more happiness in life. Simple Steven says that American workers have figured out that they got sold under the bridge to Chinese slaves and are finally starting to open their glued shut eyes to the wrongs of the labor unions, companies, government, elite, and even in many cases local officials trying every day to scam more cash out of the hands of the people who earned it any way they could. I think the writer of this article actually needs a taste of ( Everything taken away and bank accounts put on hold for 10 years ) See if that motivates his or her thoughts on 40 hour work weeks. I can promise you that no matter how many hours per week you work if the hourly pay is low or minimum wage or for that matter under 20$ hourly it wont matter how many hours you put in weekly you will stay in a poor state of financial being due to the high cost of living and other problems associated with getting to work on time……..vehicle and forced insurance costs, forced medical insurance costs, high rental fees if you can’t find room mates or family to rent off of, repairs and vehicle maint. costs. Whoops forgot those college loan or educational costs, whoops forgot to add the costs of legal fees or divorce fees or lawyer fees, whoops what about ankle biter fees!!
The only keys to saving or earning money I have found are basic #3 factors…………Don’t have kids or get married unless you make 50,000$ a year period and really that number needs to be 75,000$ a year for it to work out great. #2 Don’t over spend on shit like cars and things you don’t need all the time…..IE fancy dinners and eating out every week. #1 Make more money then you spend on living life………good luck with that I failed at it.
This is just extremely awful advice. As the adage goes – work smarter, not harder. To say that those that disagree with you are simply complainers is also extremely short-sighted. Thankfully these newer generations (mine included) are valuing a work-life balance more than previous ones, more than likely due to seeing their parents shrivel away from the stress and burnout that your “work 60 hours a week” motto entails. Difference being you got to retire in your 30s – good for you – and the rest of our parents couldn’t until their 60s. I think if you hadn’t had the luck to retire early you wouldn’t be gleefully judging the rest of us from your high horse. Ditto if your job didn’t include constantly schmoozing with clients and such.
Seriously – most financial gurus advise that the key is to gradually wean yourself off from having to work as many hours so you can gain financial freedom. If you can retire early, even better, but no true “fiancial guru” would advise working yourself to death to get to that point. This isn’t a race.
There are a few people who *can* work like robots for 30+ years, such as the janitor you mentioned, or my neighbor who consistently works overtime at UPS. There are even stimulants that can help you become more robot-like. But from the majority of people I’ve met including the UPS worker, this is a miserable life done only from necessity (he had debts and a family to support) or from putting money over the people in your life (wife, parents, children, friends, etc).
I have no problem with folks who want to go the more scenic route to financial independence. We all have our own desires and goals. I’m just saying it is illogical to want to achieve financial independence early on, yet not want to put in the work to accelerate the path.
Two relevant articles to read:
The Secret To Your Success: Making A 10-Year Unwavering Commitment
Your Wealth Is Mostly Luck: Don’t Take It For Granted
Thank God for the comments. Reading this makes me never want to talk to another human being if the majority of us think like this.
75-80 hours per week sounds unbelievable. How would you ever get anything done outside of work? Are your kids raising themselves? Didn’t finish homework ’til around 10pm ’til slacked off that shit and other stuff. Now, feeling bouts of faintness as if about to pass out and heartaches. Many comments are mentioning wives. Try by yourself with all sorts of other responsibilities like volunteering and working to make life better for others, as well. Schools complaining not spending enough time their needs when doing more than some others. Basically, the issue, maybe as it seems, is pushing individual values on others that may be harmful or against the purpose of life for some. Say, for instance, you prefer name brand and so you push for all people to prefer or purchase only name brand cause it’s your priority/ value. Same difference to me.
It’s a breeze maybe when you’re young with no responsibilities. Even then, especially for women, we would be throwing away our prime years. Once we hit that 40; for regular women, it’s pretty much downhill from there. Tried making the right decisions and in terms of family and career. Best thing to ever happen to me was my kids, and life taking them away. Life pretty much over now. Superstars and the like throw themselves in the mix with comparisons, but they have a crew who take care of most things for them. Agents, assistants, nannies, cooks, personal trainers, favors, bodyguards, PR, pampering, etc. Just my opinion. Please do not beat me up. Of course, aware may be wrong. Just throwing in my 2 cents.
Viewpoint was that we share this planet, and it provides for us all. Source of all my talents, abilities, ideas, blessings, ambition, and maybe fortitude stem from not the self. I didn’t create myself so how can I attribute all blessings to only myself. Those were my thoughts at one point. Reasons for my decisions and behavior. Now, I am neutral and try not to think too much just make it thru each day ’til my name is called for whatever awaits us after this life.
Not complaining; just sharing a perspective cause aware nothing is promised in life. Feel blessed just fearful of vultures. However, I have always never really cared for life ’til had kids to care for. Now, can’t say oh that’s life anymore — not just affecting only me. Don’t want the glitz and glam anyway. Not a competitive person. Horrible at hustling and have given labor away for free at times. Just the nature of some people; I guess. Maybe, one would have to live many lives to understand life; or at least aware of not aware of all life. Not sure. I for sure wouldn’t pretend to have it all figured out. To me, life is so strange and confusing.
Agreed! This article was written obviously by the older generation who only lived to serve mindlessly like drones.
I wrote this article when I was 33 and I retired the following year. I haven’t worked a day job since 2012.
Being financially independent and being able to retire early is worth the hustle.
But everything is rational in the end. Feel free to do what you see fit.
I mean, good for you dude, but this is just one reason why Americans die younger than the French.
Apparently you have never worked 40 hours dragging air handlers out of a 20 inch crawl space! I make off a change out about 50 bucks while my boss makes 1500 bucks in his pocket!
Imean it dosent help some jobs simply refuse to give you more hours, or are crap enough pay that it’s not worth it regardless
It’s not as cut and dry as “oh hey btw just work moreit’s easy, dont complain” some of us physically cant/are unable to I would LOVE to get more hours at any job I work at, but that dosent happen in alot, especially with major chains (like walmart) who budget hours to these people so strictly that I’ve seen fights break out cause somone got bonus hours
How did your boss become the boss? Did he or she get there working 40 hours a week or less?
I’m genuinely curious.
I’m in full blown crisis mode to get out of hvac ASAP. I can’t work more then 40 and need a new career ASAP. The chemicals, the dust, aspectos. All in life i pray for now is a decent job and a paid off condo.
Your answer is right here. U said it yourself.
”It’s not like the 75-80 hours a week spent on work is all work either. It’s fun to interact online, go play golf with clients, get some lunch and earn some income in the process.”
Not everyone works them cushy ass wanna be “tough” jobs. None of your data points are worth anything. Every job you spoke of was just little office work sissy’s. Like yourself.
When them extra hours of actual work u claim isn’t shit. Your speaking about people, A. That don’t mind overtime an comfortable with their income or don’t need or care to have more. Or they find their personal Time way more valuable. Some people don’t have a lil bitch twat of a job. You know people that actually have to earn it. Not “playing golf” or going out to “company lunch” or “playing online” outside of the actual work.
Though none of your data points I would ever even think of as “work”. Every data point job u spoke of, even your job sounds like an complete vacation. Hell I would of been steady pushing 100 a week if I had worked some lil twat like job like that myself.
But from past experience.
Some of us actually work like MEN. An don’t have these lil female office paper pushing jobs ect. I now work for myself but what about say like where I was. A steel maker. Basically did the chemistry of 80 ton batches of steel at 2,900° among so much more. Shifts are 12 hours an 15 minutes. Unless we were needed to work 16. Longest day I put in was 18.5 hours aside from that. Example my money was good enough I didn’t care to have overtime. Still done it ect. But most of the work was backbreaking in that place. Beyond extremely hot and deadly. Had many friends killed there.
So 12 hours 15 minutes plus an hour drive to an from 60-84 hours a week. I would wake up at 3 am leave about 3:20am. Drive an hour. Have just enough spare time to maybe stop to grab a lunch or breakfast for work. Get there get suited up in all kinda special shit for a meeting and work to start at 5am after. Their wasn’t any “golfing”. It was work from getting there to leaving.
Anyone call out get ready to be forced into 16 hours.
But would work to 5pm. Mans work. Not that twat stuff you claim as work. So by time Ild get home 6pm. Dragging from heat exhaustion and back an joint pains 6:30 or so comes around finally showered. And can manage to sit for a few minutes just to get back on the feet to put anything together to eat. So any relaxing can take place. Because by that time theirs not really much can be done with kids ect that has school to dress up an go do anything at that time.
Getting in the bed finally comes around 10pm or so.
For what 4 hours of sleep just to do it all again. So maybe the lil way job you had allowed 50 of free fun an relaxful time with the family. I had a easy day if I had to work and just come home to eat.
It’s a whole other story if I needed to wash uniforms ect. I would not let the wife do it because of the amount of lead dust ect I was taking home on me Ild have to undress before going in next to my vehicle in the garage. And if I needed to cut grass ect.
Though that lil job u had which was so cushy I’m sure u had ample time for the lawn ect.
Point is some people don’t want need or care to have overtime. Even if they need it. Sometimes shit just isn’t completely worth it. At times I could of used extra an others not so much. But when u have no worthy time with your family and your joints in your hands are clicking and snapping and back hurting at 30. Fuck the overtime. Far as I’m concerned you and anyone u spoke of in your lil data points are all pusses.
None of y’all know what REAL work is.
So much hatred on this comment. Sounds like you’re too stressed out of your job brother, because of the fact that you posted this at 2am.
People need to adapt to the world we live in, there’s a lot of ways to make money in this world and one over another doesn’t make a man a man or a woman more of a woman. Currency is currency, however it’s earned. Don’t blame others about personal frustrations; people need not to complain nor play victims, they need to do their best to exit the rat race.
Maybe you should spend this little time you have to learn a new skill to pacify your needs. Just a thought. Sending you some good vibes and I’m praying for you brother.
Doing heavy, dangerous and exhausting work for 12-14hours a day will kill you, or the people around you. The pay is great, but useless when you’re dead. I work in logging on the west coast of Canada. Three people died this week here. Is waking up at 2:00am to get up a mountain to cut down old growth forests worth that $100,000/yr. Maybe. I feel the steel makers pain. When you work that much in a tough job, you tend to go crazy. Typically that gets exacerbated with alcohol or other substances. The 40 hour work week was implemented as a direct response to these types of jobs. I’m just guessing but I feel that as a result of our debt ridden culture, employers are more empowered to ask more from employees and there is percieved to be nothing the employee can do about it. Saving money is the way out, if you’ve got the focus. I’ve been killing myself for the last seven years with jobs like these, but I’ve put away a tidy little sum and with the help of blogs like these and other resources have learned to invest. Now I may just work as a bicycle mechanic.
Brother, save your money and get out of that steel place. No job is worth dying for.
People have the choice to work at which ever job they choose. Physical, labor intensive jobs are no joke. I’ve worked a couple of those jobs with long hours and to me, I realized that my own personal health, actually having the time to spend and enjoy the money I earned was more important to me than working in down in those tunnels.
I now have one of those “cushy corporate/office jobs” and they’re stressful in a different way. Some people do complain too much and I agree that some people don’t know what it is to work jobs like the one you described but our world is changing. People are starting to choose to work to live rather than live to work.
Exactly dude, u get it
Rubbish, personal time is far more valuable than working 50 plus hours a week to be your corporate master’s bitch. Many studies have shown the negative effects of grinding out the hours week after week, especially on people who DO NOT enjoy being forced into overtime they do not want in order to have a job and live. We are sick of being told to suck it up, or that’s life. We should not be in a situation where we see our wives/kids an hour a day and are working/sleeping the rest. As more of us (the younger generations) value our personal time and space more than being somewhere we don’t want to be making someone we don’t even like rich, companies are going to have to adapt to more flexible working conditions or run the risk of not being able to find workers willing to put up with it. As the older workaholic generations die off they are going to find it harder and harder to treat employees like pack mules and be able to have anyone willing to work for them. No point in grinding out 70 hours a week for all of that money when you have no time to enjoy it.
Thank you for your voice of reason. This person who wrote the blog says he is enjoying “early retirement” and taking care of his 1 year old son. What woman can wait till they are that old to have their first child? He talks about other ridiculous ideas in his “data points” that may have worked for him in his singularly self absorbed “life”. Pure Rubbish is right!
Kate Gordon
I agree. This article is complete rubbish. Plus. $33,000.00 is NOT in the top 50% of top income earners! I almost cried laughing when I read that. $33,000.00 is considered working poor. You aren’t even above the Federal Poverty Level at that point. They can’t hardly even tax you as is at $33,000.00 what do you pay? A max of -30% of taxes after you receive your income tax return? I can tell you this out of my own personal experience. I was making $46,000.00 and was paying 12% in taxes. Which is roughly $5,000.00-$6,000.00 in taxes. With my children, I would receive child tax credits. These tax credits pushed me over and brought me back $8,000.00 – $9,000.00 in income tax returns. So $33,000.00 isn’t worth the time. If I were being paid $10.00 per hour, I would quit that job lickety split!
The Federal Poverty Limit is $12,140 for one person as of 2019.
https://www.financialsamurai.com/how-to-qualify-for-healthcare-subsidies-under-the-affordable-care-act-even-as-a-multi-millionaire/
I’m glad you at least got to laugh. Laughter is the best.
Yes people work 49 hours a week they still exist. Honestly I couldn’t imagine working more working 4 10 hour days is absolutely plenty for me. All the naysayers who act like working 80-100 hours a week is great is absolutely ridiculous. Congratulations on all your money, but when exactly you gonna have time to spend it? Then again these workaholics brag they only need 3 hours of sleep which isn’t a good thing at all I would like to look like I’m 40 when I’m 40 not look 40 when I’m 25 because I get almost no sleep. That and I also enjoy life, that is not working. I work because I have to not because I want to, no money equals no fun so I do the minimum so I can have maximum amount of fun and spend time with my family. I make $37.75 an hour so 40 hours a weeks I beautiful.
That’s bull shit . You get free money to have kids. And I have to pay my taxes to you .. I get $600
Return . There’s the problem with our taxes.
The kids are your responsibility. Not mine !
Look. I agree with this article. It’s simply a matter of direct proportion. The more you work the more you earn. Simple.
Dude not every city or large town has your kinds of cushy jobs available. Some people actually have to WORK for a living and most places of employment don’t even hire full time employees, never the less do overtime.
I could do an explanation about all the jobs that try to skirt overtime, and how few places actually have full time workers, because they don’t want to pay 18k per full time employee on benefits like healthcare…
But here’s the deal… If we made the base wage higher so that you could get ahead with less work you know what that would do? That would get less money in the hands of CEOs who take the money and park it offshore, and MORE money in the hands of people who NEED it, and will SPEND it, and thus creates economic stimulus.
If everyone is working 60 hours a week, that’ll hurt the economy. Do you know why? Of course you don’t. Because you get bored easily apparently and can’t handle it. You don’t know how to have proper hobbies, which means that you don’t understand that without people to watch t.v. shows, ratings will go down, and there will be less money available for t.v. shows. Same with Video Games, that bear statue, hand crafted wood furniture, fewer people will have time to go to resturaunts, they will suffer…
Having people work more hours just means less hours for the economy to run effectively because you should get at least 50 hours of sleep a night, then you get 30-80 hours of work a week.
There’s 168 hours in a week, so you have 118 non sleep hours, 30-90 non work hours, 10 of those hours are probably gone for commute to work, showering, shaving, and other pre-post work prep.
So 20-80 non work non sleep related, to cook food, enjoy yourself, and if everyone ends up closer to the 30 hour mark the economy will crash. Not to mention that more kids will probably end up disfunctional.
You don’t understand economics. You think you do but you’re trapped in a Neo-Liberal mindset that is basically false in every situation because humanity is far more complicated than standard logical analysis. If Neo-Liberal Economics was true, then Apple phones wouldn’t sell and they would go out of business because they are so expensive and not dramatically better than phones 50-75% of their price, but because people are relatively easily manipulated and want to pretend they are higher up on the socio economic ladder than others, they end up paying $1,600 on a $900 phone that they pay $50 a month on their bill for, plus another $7 cause you know they’re gonna break theirs.
Meanwhile I pay $300 dollars for a year of phone service and paid $200 for my phone and it’s a pretty dang competent phone.
generally when people say something is simple, there is an astonishingly high likelihood that it is not, such as “take out the lungs, put the 5 heart stents in, put the lungs back in, grab the kidney tumor, and sew him up. simple.”
“Look. I agree with this article. It’s simply a matter of direct proportion. The more you work the more you earn. Simple.”
Actually that is the opposite of true. You might want to research ‘diminishing marginal returns’.
also, if you get a tumor, ulcer, divorce, wreck your car from exhaustion from working too much, or your kid turns into a violent destructive piece of crap because you were never around to raise it, incurring $$$$$ in bills, did you ‘earn’ more in balance.
Couldn’t disagree with this post more. I’m 54 and I’ve rarely worked more than 40 hours a week (only when there was a crisis that needed immediate attention). I have a master’s degree and am in the top 10% of wage earners in my geographical area of the country. Currently I’m in a senior-titled position and spend 40 hours a week in the office but only work around 30 of those hours (the rest I spend taking care of personal business, or writing responses to wrong-headed blog posts like this one).
Anyone who believes working longer hours is the only way to “get ahead” is a sucker who’s “drank the corporate Kool-Aid”. Just ask the CEO of Basecamp: https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/06/success/jason-fried-basecamp-work/
To clarify, you believe it is OK to complain about why someone is not getting ahead if they are working only 40 hours or less a week?
People are welcome to work less than 40 hours a week, that’s certainly what I do. But I think it’s irrational to complain if you’re not giving it everything you’ve got.
Your premise is flawed (Working 40+ hours per week = Getting ahead)
This implies a number of things that simply aren’t true:
1) If you work 40+ hours/week you WILL get ahead.
2) If you don’t work 40+ hours/week you WON’T get ahead.
3) Working 40+ hours/week is the ONLY way to get ahead.
4) If you aren’t getting ahead, it’s due solely to the hours you’re working.
Obviously there are lazy people out there who feel they are entitled to things without putting in the requisite effort (believe me, I’ve seen my fair share). My point is that just because someone complains about not getting ahead, blindly telling them to “work more hours!” is overly simplistic. It’s akin to a doctor telling any patient who complains that their symptoms aren’t getting better to “take more medicine!” Shouldn’t the symptoms be accurately and thoroughly diagnosed before a remedy is administered?
Like the old saying goes: “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different result.” Simply putting in more hours is rarely the only (or best) solution. Nothing “magical” happens when working hours 40 through 50 (or 60, or 70) that isn’t already happening when working hours 1 through 40.
That’s all I’m saying.
That was a beautiful and well educated reply, Roger. Plus the fact that we are all animals, not drones. We are not built to work as much as society would have us believe, as proven by the burnout and mental illnesses experienced by thousands of these workers, including myself. Look at Japan. They are very work oriented. So much so that they disregard human relationships, that would be built during off hours, as being important. The depression and suicide rates there are sky high. Building someone else’s dream and selling the precious hours of your life are not worth the meager wages they say you’re worth, friends.
Precisely my point. You reach a level of diminishing returns after putting in a certain number of hours. People are not horses that should be run all-out until they literally drop dead. 40 hours per week seems to be roughly the reasonable limit of human potential, at least over extended time periods. Work smarter people, not harder or longer.
You have a valid point Sam. Work more, earn more, of course, you have less time in the week for other things: friends, family, hobbies, etc. But if your goal is to make more money, sure that is one way to do it. Nothing new.
The reason why most people don’t neccessarily buy into this logic is because there is a gross disproportionality in wages in this country.
Let’s take your example, you worked in finance where your work probably received better than the average compensation: 50k and up. Try working 70+ hrs. As a farm laborer, construction worker, teacher, etc. There are a large number of jobs in the U.S. where your work is not compensated as well as other professions (<50k). My point, not everybody can work in finance or be a doctor or a lawyer and charge above average rates and earn above average incomes that would justify the extra hours of work or overtime put in every week.
If I’m getting paid $50 an hr. Sure I have no problem working overtime. If I’m making $7.50 an hr at the local burger joint. No thank you, I’m going to spend what precious little time I have left with family and friends. I would say that the vast majority share my sentiment.
Your article speaks only to a small segment of the working populace to whom more hours worked makes financial sense. You error in assumming that the majority of people can or would be willing to work more hours than they already do when financially it just doesn’t make much sense.
Have you done any manual labor? How many hours would you be willing to work in a week cleaning the carpets at a top financial brokerage for $12/hr?
As for the 6-figure salary janitor or elevator mechanic. That’s an anomoly, I wouldn’t assume that the vast majority of janitors have the opportunity to make those same amounts just working overtime. Some employers even cap hours in order to keep people from making overtime.
Thanks for your thoughtful response.
To answer your question, I have done a lot of low paying labor.
The first was working for McDonald’s and stuffing envelop for $4/hour. See: Three Bad Jobs That Can Eventually Make You Rich And Happy
The second was giving over 500 Uber rides in 2015 to see if I could make additional income. That was quite an experience. See: Spoiled Or Clueless? Try Working A Minimum Wage Job As An Adult
The final lower paying job is me coaching high school tennis from 2017 until now for three season. The pay comes out to around $25/hour, which is not bad. But that’s more like $10/hour if you live in a non coastal city.
But it’s really the reward of mentoring and teaching kids that keeps me going. See: When People Doubt You, Just Keep On Winning
And maybe spending so much time doing arduous work throughout my life makes me less sympathetic for folks who complain about not getting ahead while working less than 40 hours a week. You can work less than 40 hours a week no problem. Just don’t complain. Complaining is an excuse b/c there are plenty of abled bodied people who are doing more.
I am absolutely shocked that you consider $25 a “low wage job”. It has been an eye opening experience to read the perspective of someone so, so incredibly privileged. I do hope that you use your financial abundance and privilege to help others less fortunate than you. I mean this sincerely, I feel really sad for you and feel a lot of compassion for the person you are raising.
I said $25/hour is “not bad.” What are you projecting?
$25/hr = $50,000 a year, which is 40% BELOW the median wage in San Francisco.
It’s important not to be spoiled and entitled if you want to build wealth. Everybody has a different situation. You need to learn to understand different backgrounds.
See: https://www.financialsamurai.com/rich-spoiled-clueless-work-minimum-wage-job-at-least-twice/
I agree with April. Life isn’t so simple, we can’t all be wealthy Americans. Think beyond yourself and your human experience.
I lived through the nineties. Don’t drink the koolaid. The CEO and his buddies will slave-drive the salaried workers, then walk away with the fat stack after they gut or sell the company.
For most people there isn’t a fat money reward, just the opportunity to work tomorrow for some more chicken-scratch. Go pet your dog and hug your kids.
Playing golf, having lunch with clients shouldn’t be considered work. Try working a concrete labor job for 8 hours a day, or as a dairy loader in grocery, or any high intensity labor. Would send you and your golf buddies running for the hills. It’s all subjective, it’s all perspectives. Not everyone can get in to the position of leisure while working. That’s a luxury and a goal maybe to aspire to but you’re contradicting yourself by talking about people in france or these 20 somethings and saying they don’t work hard enough whenever you have a situation that in reality would be pretty impossible for EVERYONE to achieve. That’s not how capitalism works at least, it has never been that way!
How is working a full 40 hour work week slacking off? This is utter rubbish. It is sad that you’ve bought into the idea that if you aren’t spending every waking moment at work then you’re slacking off. There’s more to life than work!