There have been a number of data points recently that have caught me off guard. Apparently, there are people in this world who actually work 40 hours a week or less and complain why they can’t get ahead!
I understand the complaining if you are a student, have a disability, doing heavy manual labor, or are under-employed. But, I’ve only heard about places like France where people work less than 40 hours a week and start going on strike if they have to work more.
Working 40 hours a week or less is fantastic if you are happy with your income and career. Working 40 hours a week or less is also great if you are not bored out of your mind and can get away with it. Don’t let anybody else tell you to work harder.
Unfortunately, I am neither skilled enough to do what I want with that little amount of time. Nor do I have the courage to work so little for what I am being compensated for. Besides, when I was in my 20s and 30s, I had at least 50-60 hours a week of energy to work.
If you are on the younger side, you might as well utilize it before it fades. Trust me, your energy will fade eventually and you will have wished you did more while you were younger.
One of the core principles of Financial Samurai is this: Never fail due to a lack of effort because effort requires no skill.
Folks Who Complain Why They Can’t Get Ahead While Working So Little
Here are a number of data points from people who are complaining about needing to work 40 hours a week.
Data point #1
Two women on the bus were chatting next to me and explaining what a long day at work they had. It was 6:30pm and one woman said, “Thank goodness the day is over! I got in an hour early at 8:30am and am absolutely exhausted!”
She’s exhausted for being in the office for nine hours and taking an hour long lunch break? Sign me up! In equities banking, we lowly analyst had to get in at 5:30 am to run errands and print out research for our traders, and then stay until at least 7:30 pm!
Data point #2
For some reason, my article “How Much Do The Top Income Earners Make By Percentage?” continues to get random commenters (1,200+ now) who turn the simple question into a political and social debate about why the rich should be paying more taxes, and the lower 50% should be paying even less taxes.
One commenter says I’m out of touch with reality when I explain that anybody who really wants to be in the Top 50% of income earners ($33,000) can do so if they wanted to. All you have to do is work 63 hours a week at $10 to make $33,000 a year! He says that’s ridiculous as he can’t make that working 40 hours a week (no kidding).
Data point #3
My friend in HR said her firm is implementing overtime compensation for certain level of workers who work more than 40 hours a week. I asked her why her firm was rewarding their workers for working hours they’re supposed to anyway?
That’s like rewarding the cable guy who comes within the allotted window! She giggled and shrugged. If I am the CEO, and you command overtime compensation for working more than 40 hours a week, I will do my best to refer you to my competitor to blow them up.
Data point #4
A blogger who moved to a foreign country to experience location independence, swims for hours a day, “works” about 30 hours a week and says he’s burned out. He’s upset that he’s not making more than $1,000-$2,000 a month with his info-products and online job opportunities. He’s so burned out that he took a week off to re-charge his batteries. In other words, he took a vacation from his vacation.
You’d think as a full-time blogger working 3-5 hours a day that you’d probably post every day and never burn out. But, he only posts 2 to 3X a week and writes that he’s frustrated nobody has given him a book deal. Come on now. $1,000-$2,000 ain’t too shabby for kicking back!
The blogger is in his 40s now, still lives with his parents, but has finally taking hard work to heart and is producing a pretty good podcast on living unconventional lives.
At least he’s done something great by starting something creative. I highly recommend everyone start their own website and brand themselves online. Get rich off yourself. Don’t let Facebook and Twitter get rich off you!
Not a day goes by where I’m not glad I didn’t start Financial Samurai in 2009. Partially due to having something to look forward to, I was able to negotiate a severance in 2012 to build this site. Financial Samurai now makes a healthy amount of supplemental retirement income along with my other passive income streams.
Data point #5
There were four 20-something year olds just lounging in these recliners at Starbucks, surfing the web, and doing absolutely nothing but goof off for the entire 1.5 hours I was meeting up with a client. This was midday on a Wednesday.
One guy starts saying how his firm hired someone senior than him to do his job, and how angry he was for not being recognized more. Then this other guy who was listening to music off his laptop chimes in that he’s been looking for a programming job for months.
This is San Francisco, where if you have programming skills, you are hired for $120,000 at 22 years old. Watching YouTube videos, surfing the web, and playing games on your laptop at a coffee shop during the middle of the day does not get you anywhere. Taking 1.25 hour coffee breaks in the afternoon if you are working doesn’t not help you get promoted either.
Below is the average number of hours worked per week in the U.S. Talk about living the dream!
Data point #6
After publishing the post, Are You Too Proud to Be Rich?, a lot of people complained in the comments section they don’t have the capacity to side hustle to make extra money. It’s as if once the clock strikes 5 pm, no more work can be done.
Meanwhile, I just wrote that all these first generation immigrants side-hustling and making more than these private school graduate Uber employees! Why wouldn’t you want to start your own website to try and leverage the internet to make more money? There are millions of people out there who are making extra money via the gig economy and online.
Data point #7
In an open letter to her CEO, 24 year old Talia wrote, “I was told I’d have to work in support for an entire year before I would be able to move to a different department. A whole year answering calls and talking to customers just for the hope that someday I’d be able to make memes and twitter jokes about food.”
WTF. Since when was working an “entire year” so bad before getting a promotion?
Data point #8
Bo, a Creative Writing/English major from University of Colorado said he and other people were crying at their desks constantly while working for Amazon, according to a New York Times article.
Bo lasted for 1 year, 10 months at his book marketing role so he could do something more special, like work at a startup called Yessler. He lasted for 1 year and 6 months before moving to Microsoft, where he’s been there for 8 months. Will he ever be able to last for two years at one place? Or will things just be too hard on him?
Data point #8
Finally, let me update this post and share my own example. When the pandemic started, I told myself that I might as well try and make more money online given we were locked down. As a result, I spent many more hours a week writing and doing business development on Financial Samurai.
However, I no longer want to work 40 hours a week trying to make money online. This pandemic has truly beaten me up mentally and physically as a father of two young children.
I would love to earn more money and work less than 40 hours a week so I can spend more time with my children. I’m considering going back to work since people are making more money and more people get to work from home.
However, since I’ve been used to total freedom since I left finance in 2012, I don’t want to work for someone anymore. Instead, I’ll just focus on building up more passive retirement income. Therefore, I’ve got to learn to be satisfied with what we’ve got.
Do People Really Work Less Than 40 Hours A Week And Complain?
Are there really people out there who only work 40 hours or less a week and complain why they can’t get ahead or make enough money? That’s like slacking off in school and expecting to go straight to the corner office. Ain’t gonna happen.
I don’t think I’ve ever worked less than 40 hours a week when I was still working a day job and healthy. Day job work is around 55-60 hours a week and online work is another 20 hours of side hustle work for a total of 75-80 hours.
Add on 35-42 hours a week for sleep, that still leaves 50 hours a week to spend with family, friends, and extracurricular activities.
It’s not like the 75-80 hours a week spent on work is all work either. It’s fun to interact online, go play golf with clients, get some lunch and earn some income in the process.
Perhaps society has manipulated people into believing that 40 hours a week is a normal time to spend on the job or on an endeavor.
Two Ways To Get Ahead
There are two ways to get ahead: 1) Work harder and smarter than everybody else and 2) Make everybody else work less and dumber. If you ask any super successful person how many hours a week they work I can guarantee you that it’s way more than 40 hours a week.
Do you think the POTUS works only 40 hours a week? Hell no! They regularly work 60-70 hours a week and are on call 24-7. Do you think Fake News King Mark Zuckerberg works 40 hours a week? He worked around the clock to build Facebook to what it is today. Do you think doctors don’t study night and day for their MCATs to then go on single digit work hour rounds? The answer is “no,” and you all know that.
Stop being so lazy and abolish welfare mentality! We’ve got an immigrant janitor here in San Francisco who makes $271,000 a year due to working tons of overtime. He’s not alone either!
His elevator/escalator technician makes $284,000 a year due to working way more than 40 hours a week as well. He’s not alone either! Managers at In N’ Out Burger earn on average $160,000 a year without a college degree.
The list goes on and on about people who work more than 40 hours a week in regular jobs and make handsome six-figure salaries.
Working 40 Hours A Week Is A Walk In The Park
If you can work 40 hours a week and be satisfied with what you have, more power to you. However, if you are complaining about life and why you don’t have enough money and only work 40 hours a week, you need to get your head checked.
We live in a very competitive society and anybody who wants to be better than average can’t work 40 hours and expect to be more than they’re not.
I had originally wrote this post before I had retired. Now that I’m almost 10 years into retirement, I finally see the joys of slacking off.
I’ve only been “working” ~20 hours a week on average since I left work in 2012. But I jacked up my work hours to 35-40 hours a week during the lockdowns because I figured I might as well make money.
Trust me, you won’t regret the effort you put in when you were younger. Not a day goes by where I’m not thankful to be able to spend every day taking care of my family, instead of having to commute to an office and work at a job that I don’t love.
With Joe Biden as President, more of us should be able to relax given taxes will be going up to pay for a bigger safety net. I’m ready to take it down a notch again after an exhausting couple years during the pandemic.
Maybe, soon, we really do deserve to get ahead while working 40 hours a week or less!
Negotiate A Severance And Leave If You’re Miserable
In 2012, I negotiated a six-figure severance package worth six years of living expenses. It was my catalyst to break free from Corporate America for good. I didn’t want to deal with a micromanager anymore. As an employee, you have more power than you think.
If you quit your job, you forfeit your right to a severance, to unemployment benefits, and to COBRA healthcare. Check out my book, How To Engineer Your Layoff. It will teach you how to leave your job with potentially money in your pocket.
It’s the only book that teaches you how to negotiate a severance. In addition, it was recently updated and expanded thanks to tremendous reader feedback and successful case studies. The book has been extensively revised multiple times to incorporate more case studies and feedback.
Use the code “savefive” to save $5. Or, pre-order/purchase four copies of my new book, Buy This, Not That: How To Spend Your Way To Wealth And Freedom, e-mail me proof of purchase at sales AT financialsamurai DOT com, and I’ll send you How To Engineer Your Layoff For Free.
Invest In Real Estate For Passive Income If You Want To Work Less
If you’re sick of working so many hours, then you should invest in real estate for passive income. Let real estate do the heavy lifting for you so you don’t have to work as hard. Real estate is my favorite way to achieving financial freedom because it is a tangible asset that is less volatile, provides utility, and generates income.
By the time I was 30, I had bought two properties in San Francisco and one property in Lake Tahoe. These properties generated enough income to help me escape work in 2012.
Then in 2016, I started diversifying into heartland real estate to take advantage of lower valuations and higher cap rates. I did so by investing $810,000 with real estate crowdfunding platforms. With interest rates down, the value of cash flow is up.
Take a look at my two favorite real estate crowdfunding platforms. Both are free to sign up and explore.
Fundrise: A way for accredited and non-accredited investors to diversify into real estate through private eFunds. Fundrise has been around since 2012 and has consistently generated steady returns, no matter what the stock market is doing. For most people, investing in a diversified eREIT is the way to go.
CrowdStreet: A way for accredited investors to invest in individual real estate opportunities mostly in 18-hour cities. 18-hour cities are secondary cities with lower valuations and higher rental yields. If you have a lot more capital, you can build you own diversified realestate portfolio.
Start Your Own Business / Website
If you feel you’re not getting paid what you’re worth and want to boost your income, start your own business online on the side! It used to cost a fortune and a lot of employees to start your business. Now you can start it for next to nothing.
Brand yourself online, connect with like-minded people, find new consulting gigs, and potentially make a good amount of income online one day by selling your product or recommending other great products.
Not a day goes by where I’m not thankful for starting Financial Samurai in 2009. Here’s my step-by-step guide to for how to start your own website like mine in under 30 minutes.
Just know that at least in the beginning, running your own business will require way more than 40 hours a week to get ahead. The good thing is, you’ll enjoy the work more because it’s yours!
Manage Your Finances In One Place
Finally, get a handle on your finances by signing up with Personal Capital. It is a free online platform which aggregates all your financial accounts in one place. The more you can track your finances, the better you can optimize.
Before Personal Capital, I had to log into eight different systems to track 28 different accounts to track my finances. Now, I can just log into Personal Capital to see how my stock accounts are doing. I can also check how my net worth is progressing.
The best feature is their free 401K Fee Analyzer. It is now saving me over $1,700 a year in portfolio fees I had no idea I was paying! They also launched their amazing Retirement Planning Calculator. It uses your real data to give you great insights into your financial future.
Personal Capital takes less than one minute to sign up and it’s free.
Read The Best Book On Becoming Rich, Happy, And Free
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BTNT will be the best personal finance book you will ever read. You can buy a copy on Amazon today. The richest people in the world are always reading and always learning new things. Learn from those who are already where you want to go.
The funny thing about the pandemic is that some who’ve been able to work from home are able to work less and still get paid the same. Now that’s working smarter! Just make sure your company doesn’t catch you slacking off too much! Related post: In Search For The 2-Hour Work Day While Getting Paid Full Time
For those reading; here’s a good counterpoint about NOT making $400,000 a year if you want to be happy.
https://www.financialsamurai.com/dont-make-over-400000-a-year-goldman-analysts-suffer/
For an attempt at satire, this is amusing. Your inability to empathize with the individuals you target and attempt to shame is underwhelming. You undercut yourself by making it very clear that you are thoroughly out of touch with the modern working world.
I am glad your very unique and luck-driven situation worked out for you! You know, though, I’d love to hear more about the folks who are already working 80+ hours a week, branding themselves online, and for some silly reason still aren’t wealthy despite doing everything you mention and more. What gives, huh? I guess they’re all just lazy.
You really should proofread your writing, by the way. Thanks for the chuckle!
I appreciate the comment. Given English is my second language and I don’t have the luxury of an editor, I will endeavor to continue doing my best. I also welcome readers who can point out grammatical errors so I can easily fix them.
Probably one of the reasons why I’m out of touch with the modern working world is because I haven’t had a day job since 2012. I left after negotiating a severance and deciding I no longer wanted to pursue the money. But my friends who do work seem to be having a lot more flexibility post pandemic.
I don’t think people are lazy. I think some people are incongruent in desire and action. Nobody is going to save us. We must save ourselves. Feel free to share something about yourself.
Related: Spoiled Or Clueless? Try Working A Minimum Wage Service Job As An Adult
I’m a pro-capitalism, fiscally conservative, libertarian minded individual who firmly believes in hard work…. and this article made me cringe so hard. This sounds like bad advice aimed at people who think they can grind their youth away for an employer and become the next wolf of Wallstreet.
First rule of working for a big employer: they absolutely do NOT care about you or what you do for them. If you want to grind your life away 70 hours a week for them they’ll let you and “reward” you with small raises until you get an offer elsewhere and force them to give you a real raise. If you want to work a reasonable 40-45 hours they probably won’t even notice, but will hold it against you for those tiny raises, which you can mitigate by leaving for a big ass raise from a different employer.
Lastly, you mock the guy who’s swimming in France and then later mention that some of your “work” is golfing and lunching with clients like that’s real work. If my job (engineering) allowed me to play games and eat in restaurants on the clock I’d probably enjoy 60 hour weeks too.
The point of this article is encourage congruency with desire and effort.
If you want to make more money, you likely need to work harder and smarter.
If you don’t want to make more money, then be happy with what you got and don’t complain.
Personally, I quit the desire to earn maximum money in 2012. I gave up the money at age 34 for more freedom. Therefore, I’m not going to whine about not making more if I don’t put in the effort.
I work 40 hours a week and it is killing me. I have a good job in IT and make 120k a year. I get paid hourly, and am told I can work up to 45 hours a week and get the overtime, but I don’t. I can do 50 hours of work in 40 and would much rather work harder for the 40 hours than waste more of my time stuck in the office. That being said, I often do not get 50 hours of work to complete each week. This leads to boredom at my desk twiddling my thumbs.
Now that I have had a taste of working from home during the pandemic, I also do not want to work from home 100% of the time either. For the last few months, I had a perfect balance. Tuesday and Fridays working from home and Monday Wednesday and Thursday in the office.
Unfortunately, we are now required to be in the office everyday (non negotiable) and I instantly hate my job again. I feel like I am spending so much of my youth grinding away for the dollar just to have a nest egg I may never get to use when I’m 70+
My case is different than your initial assertion because I DO have a corner office and a good career, but feel like I could get just as much done in 35 hours than 40. This leads to boredom and a sense of frustration. To me, everyday of work feels like an 8 hour plane ride where I have access to the web and my work, but am trapped arbitrarily at my desk until I hit my 40 hour minimum.
I am 30 and value my time
Man, I never thought about working eight hours like being stuck on an eight hour plane ride. That is a pretty damn good analogy and I would hate my day today if that were truly the case.
I’m glad you have the corner office at age 30. That is pretty rare. Therefore, it sounds like it’s time for you to take on some new challenges and do new things.
Enjoy the YOLO Economy to the max! I certainly will.
I appreciate the response!
Yeah, I do believe that not being challenged definitely contributes to that trapped feeling. The main issue is that in my role and my particular workplace, I have very solid job security. I am lucky to have known the owners my whole life, and there is something to be said about the comfort the security brings.
It is a balance between taking calculated risks vs. a “this is good enough” mentality. It is not a bad job by any means, just feel like I could be doing more with my time. The security and pay make it hard to entertain new offers, and that makes me feel like I have plateaued.
Should I forgo the security to look elsewhere, or settle into the reality that this is what I should expect for the long haul?
You’ve got to find what I call your X-Factor. Do something outside of work that gives you more joy and meaning.
After 13 years in finance, I wanted out b/c I was bored and the job didn’t have much meaning anymore. My X-Factor was Financial Samurai, and it’s served me well since I started this site in 2009.
It’s nice to have a steady job that pays the bills and provides benefits. It’s even nicer to go do something outside of work that gives you joy.
I do think more people should take more risks while they are young. You never want to look back and wonder, “What if?”
Its not about the hours, but the value of your hours. If the value of your hour of work is $67, then one would only have to work 2 hours a day 5 days a week, to make $33k a year. Putting in more hours is the fools errand and the road to nowhersville. Better to put hours in getting education for a in demand trade or technical career. Rhe absolute best thing is detaching earned money from worked time, then the skys the limit.
Wow… so you’re an idiot. Congrats! you’re out of f8cking touch. I don’t think it’s fair that I have to work more than 40 hours a week. Look at the people in France and Spain. They do just fine working 35 hours a week and live a great life.
Your reality doesn’t count. Mine does. I deserve to be rich. For you to point out that rich people work more than 40 hours a week and take more risks than others is infuriating!
Thanks for your comment. I’m sorry to have made you angry. If you don’t want to work more than 40 hours a week and are happy with where you are, then all is good.
Enjoy life more. That’s what I plan to do as I cross off things on my pre-retirement checklist again. It’s all about the YOLO Economy as we come out of this pandemic!
“I deserve to be rich.” – The last time I checked no one ‘deserves’ anything. That’s an entitled way of looking at the world. If you want to be rich in your field endeavor, work the hours needed to achieve it. But don’t expect doing the bare minimum is going to make it magically happen for you.
I decided I didn’t want to just sit behind a PC fixing people’s problems anymore and wanted to lead others. So I worked harder and got the hard issues, handed coordination of important projects and ultimately promotions to where I am now. I hate to break it to you, but the higher you go in an organization, the more hours you’ll spend working, but the salary and additional benefits that come with it can make all the difference.
When some friends I work with that stayed on my old track go on vacation, they go to the lake for a week. When I go on vacation, I go stay in an over the water bungalow on an island. It’s all about what you want and what you’re willing to do to get it.
Is this sarcastic? It reads like satire.
“Your reality doesn’t count. Mine does. I deserve to be rich.”
This sounds like a satirical quote from the Babylon Bee or the Onion.
Congratulations! You have bought into the propaganda funded by the rich capitalists and are willfully letting your boss exploit your labor while buying into the lie that “If I just work harder, I will be rich like them someday too!”
Either you are a brainwashed tool of the upper classes… or you are a willing propaganda arm (tool) of the upper classes. Either way… this whole article is filled with bs that is not supported by empirical data or reality.
To anyone who truly feels this way about working… wake up! Human beings are not made simply to work! There’s more to life than that and if you are American… odds are that your employer is paying you less than the value you put into your work… cause that is how capitalism works. You create a product and your boss sells it for more than they paid to make it so that they can pocket the profits. Those “profits” are value you put into making the product that your boss didn’t pay you for. The owner class doesn’t provide anything or work at all to create more value… the working class does all that and get paid less than the owner class for it. That’s Capitalism.
Work smarter, not harder?
See:
https://www.financialsamurai.com/the-easiest-way-to-make-money-from-home/
https://www.financialsamurai.com/yolo-economy/
God all the little boys living in their parents basements bringing up the fallacious argument that humans “were never meant to work that much” are seriously reaffirming the stereotype of the soy beaned pumped, electronics and couch orbiting gen Z low lifes who have lost touch with reality, both past and present.
Labor is relative, and whether your labor is driven by the need to survive in a non industrial society (exponentially more demanding), or to thrive and be able to utilize all the benefits of a capitalist society (which means not living in less desirable places such as Spain or France so commonly brought up by the aforementioned soybean) your a$$ will still be working. Humans used to work 24/7. Their labour was motivated by needs of survival which when compared to modern life, is 1000× more work in both time and physically effort and never allowed for set times off like “vacation”.
One slap on the back of the neck for the smoothbrains who used the words “capitalist propaganda” while living in a country founded on capitalism, surrounded by items driven by the capitalist nations and their conflicts, utilizing public services funded off of capitalist society etc.
You guys want to be rich working 30 hours a week buying your over priced Starbucks coffee (product of capitalism) and it shows real bad. Absolute Roaches.
Capitalism sucks. Ever heard of egalitarianism?
pdrboston.org/it-s-not-utopia
Also, where do you get the notion that humans used to work 24 hours a day?
You lead a sad life buddy. Nobody cares how much you work. Not even your employers. Hope you find something to actually live for in life.
I know. And thank you for your encouragement. I left work at age 34 in 2012 b/c I was sick of the grind. But by 2014 I got back on the horse to do some part-time consulting.
I’m trying to re-retire again under President Biden because I’m so tired of working hard during the pandemic to provide for my family. But I figured, if the government is going to lock us down, I might as well put in max effort until lockdowns end to build as much passive income as possible.
I’m burned out and really want to return to living a more relaxing life as my two young children grow up. Time waits for no one!
See: The Best Time To Retire May Be Under A Democratic President Like Joe Biden
If you have any recommendations on a better work / life balance, I’d love to hear it. Or perhaps share your story and how you’re make it all happen. Thanks
Dude major props for even giving these plebs the validation of a response. Some people aren’t capable of thinking on the generational scale.. only displaying selfish lazy traights oriented around the goal of in the moment luxury. Your kids are about to be debt free with that head start because of your sacrifice which is all that matters, and in 100 years when your families networth remains on the steady rise and theirs remains generationaly stagnant, you will have the last laugh. Been reading all the comments your post stirred up for the past hour and it is seriously saddening. Some people don’t live for growth, just comfort.
Thanks. It’s all good. I understand there is a lot of frustration out there. When I was in my 20s and 30s, I felt the same way as many folks. But over time, I’ve seen what putting in consistent effort can do.
At the end of the day, everything is rational. We must be satisfied with our results. If we are not, we will change.
Korbenfeld, you are just a tool for the establishment. Enjoy your heart attack.
Your perception on life and reality is deluded. Congrats on working from 5:00am to 7:30pm but unfortunately, I see doing more with my life than that. It’s not a “person” person it’s a societal American problem- that we are taught that working for free (over 40 hours salaried) isn’t enough. That coming in early and staying late is expected to get ahead in this rat race. Work smarter, not harder. We are living beings, not made to work till we die.
I deserve to be rich just like every other rich person. I should have to work harder than average here in America.
Thanks. Good luck to you.
Check out this post: Don’t Make Over $400,000 A Year, Look How Terrible Life Is
I know being workers is fun and sometimes profitable might NOT know your work ethic is admirable thank you very much. However money for nothing and chicks for free that’s the way you do it YES more or less really there are and we are grateful that they are diligent and also happy with this generosity and concerned that some are blissfully unaware of lifestyle other than our own. Ever stop at a convienience store a Holiday station for example and one side says SELF SERVICE and the other says FULL SERVICE like oh well… see you on the other side.
OP, do you know how many people who are happier than you with a lot less?
Or how many people make more than you ever will for a fraction of the time and energy you put in?
Hell, there’s a whole swath of FI/RE people who simply lived below their means for a decade to invest enough to never work again after 40 while still making money.
You sweet summer child—You’ve convinced yourself that “hustle” equates to financial success, or that income defines success. People fill their lives with “hard work” and long hours for years just to end up with nothing, both economically and socially. You’re one accident, divorce, market crash, medical emergency, etc away from dying broke and alone. And good luck with keep that energy level up after 45ish—if you make it that long.
Indeed. I’m planning to re-retire over the next year or so. It was a nice break for me from 2012 – 2019. Now, I’m tired of the grind and being locked down. Big government is providing more support and if I’ve got to pay even more taxes (already pay 6-figures a year in taxes) and $2,200+/month in unsubsidized healthcare, it no longer feels worth it.
Got to enjoy life to the maximum post lock down! I am glad I utilized the pandemic to boost my wealth and passive income. Always got to make good out of suboptimal situations.
I hope you make it past 45 as well. Let’s go!
Related: Solving The Happiness Conundrum In 5 Moves Or Less
Wow – if you ever need another passive income stream, consider teaching a class on how to respond politely to people on the internet. I don’t know how you manage to put up with all the crap you’re getting, but it’s like a Masterclass on diffusing angry commenters.
After so many years of running Financial samurai and hundreds of thousands of comments, I recognize that a lot of the commenting is a reflection of one’s own situation. So I have empathy for those who are frustrated and angry, and especially those who wish harm on others.
I have yet to meet a happy person who wishes bad on someone. Hurt people hurt people, as the saying goes. Hopefully, things improve over time.
You are crazy, I work 40h/week and I am trying to find a way to work less.
If you are working more than that I don’t know what the hell are you doing with your life.
It’s a life that doesn’t worth to be lived, you just work!
I would prefer to be homeless or dead
I agree.
There are 8760 hours in a year. Working 40 hours every week (if you’re not getting any vacation at all), is only 2080 hours a year. Less than a quarter of the total time you get in a year. But yet even 25% of your time dedicated to work is tooooo much.
“My friend in HR said her firm is implementing overtime compensation for certain level of workers who work more than 40 hours a week. I asked her why her firm was rewarding their workers for working hours they’re supposed to anyway?”
This attitude is fucking toxic. They are paid for a 40 hour work week. More than 40 hours is not “hours they’re supposed to work anyway”. Shit like this is one of the reasons mental health in this country is continuing to get worse. No one should be required to work ridiculous hours just to keep their jobs, there’s more to life than sitting in a cubicle all day. You should be ashamed of yourself.
You are right. I was ashamed of working hard for 13 years after college. That’s why I negotiated a severance and retired in 2012 at the age of 34.
Life has been so much better since retiring. It’s much better to kick back, enjoy the outdoors, and spend more time with family.
With Biden in 2021, There’s no better time to retire and let the government take care of us!
Jesus, you’re so out of touch it’s pathetic. That article bitching and moaning about an extra 2.6% in taxes on income over $400k reads like a parody. I’m so sorry for you that you have 3 dollars left at the end of the month after paying your mortgage and taxes on your 2 million dollar house, paying way more than necessary for food, saving a crazy amount for your kid’s college costs (over 18 years, you’re saving $162k per kid assuming your investment get zero return), going on a $7k vacation, paying for your kids to be in both a private preschool and daycare at the same time, etc.
Can you share where all your anger is coming from? Some context would be nice.
I am agreeing with you that it’s best to kick back and not work so much. Life is better when you pay less taxes, have less stress, and more leisure time.
I think it’s great not to work as hard next year. The Biden article is a hypothetical budget of how a $400K family can run out of cash flow.
Why can’t I join you in working less than 40 hours a week? And why is your reality more real than other peoples realities?
Wow! Talk about being ignorant and complaining why life isn’t fair. Have you ever stopped question the reason why you aren’t getting ahead is because you have poor work ethic, I didn’t study hard in school, and didn’t take any risks in life?
Stop being a loser and thinking the world has to adjust to you. That’s not how the world works sonny. Nobody’s gonna save your sorry ass from being a loser for the rest of your life. The only person who can save you as yourself.
Resorting to personal attacks and name calling serves no purpost.
What makes you think his comment is about “getting ahead?” It’s quite possible you’ll look like a total loser in the end. Life doesn’t always agree with taking risks…but keep taking them and keep your attitude then reach back out in a decade. Life tends to temper those who think they know it all. Especially those people.
“But, I’ve only heard about places like France where people work less than 40 hours a week and start going on strike if they have to work more.”
If we look at the productivity per hour france is at $62, right behind USA ($65):
ourworldindata.org/grapher/labor-productivity-per-hour-pennworldtable
Although they work way less than Americans. Hours worked has nothing to do with productivity. It’s also about your qualification and industry. Just working more is a low iq way to make more money.
this is the dumbest comment I’ve ever read. I’m guessing if he retired in 2012 and He just had a newborn baby which means he’s still pretty young. He’s retired wealthy and doesn’t work unless he wants to, and you’re stuck working a 40 hour a week job.. I feel like his IQ is probably substantially higher than yours. Lol are you French? If so. My take on French people is that you are all incredibly stupid. Wow.
What he said made 100% sense, you are just too stupid…
What the F*** is this article? I came here because I hate having to work a strict 40 hours versus getting what needs done done so I can do things that actually matter in life.
Seriously if you think you are so much better than everyone else because you have 60 hours a week in you.. you must love your job and everything you are doing in it. I have 60 hours of work in me for things that are passionate and move my life ahead. I can’t put another 8 hours in after a full day of working a miserable and life sucking job.
If you hate working 40 hours a week and don’t care about getting ahead in your career or building more wealth, don’t!
This article is about those who are working 40 hours a week or less but who want to get ahead and are frustrated why they can’t.
I never realized how many hours I work a week. At my day job I work 35 hours/wk and earn more than I need. Then I have a second “job” where I “work” 5 hours, seven days a week. Until this moment I did not realize it is a second “job”
I love the stock market. I read for 35 to 40 hours a week about the stock market, money and my investments. I just never thought of this as a job. I earn much more money at my second “job”
They are right. If you do what you love, it is not work. But Sam is right. I am in the top 1% but I “work” at least 70 hours/wk. I just didn’t know it is work.
I don’t believe what I read as thought interplanetary elements are at work. It’s as the whole world is nuts, maybe it always was . 1 person can throw a fuck into the world. Good example the president of ‘supposedly the most bestest country in the world. His words on Larry King, if I ever ran for president I would run democratic as they ARE the stupidest people in the world. Quote’ This was A bet batwing rich con men. GOOD ONE. As it continues the rest of the world looks at the simpsons and sees real life implications. Maybe Matt Groening is a future reader. Maybe this is a plot or conspiracy, the rich have their own idea of how to control the masses. I am a boomer done every job, some I loved some I hated. Of course when you are young you have more ability and vigor, but not many get that as a life long gig. In this day of 2020 we are all us boomers looking at the past and seeing a repeat of history because of people like Hitler Trump and any others that put themselves above all things. With power comes corruption almost always and now is more than ever a time to stop and think. If the world keeps going in the same direction we will all be gone soon, I am of the sort that thinks about everything I do or say….. TRY! If the people in power situations don’t make a difference they should not be leaders, Obama the first black president, did he do anything…. NO. The people are stupid I am stupid as I don’t vote. I consider it a waste of time,there are no candidates. Why is it that we never have any body do any thing ever. WHY… the system has been folded and bent to suit the wealthy the 1% never to change,only will grow power makes money, money buys power/??????????? I am not a Jesus person but I believe that there is something beyond people. But we are so messed up dealing with other people’s lives we miss what makes this world keep spinning, completely. This is only my response to our world as it is today, FUKED. 1 more round of trump should do it! Obviously we live for today, some the 1% are more than rest as they can wave a stick and ,poof we have an issue, the world is lost, soon the rich will run the world openly’! Corporations with no need to pay tax, part of the game. When I was young and saw graffiti that said make the rich pay,I did not understand I do now. Some how we need to do something I have no trouble with rich people, mostly but it does not take any genius to know that people like amazon, work those people like slaves. Nobody knows the depth of power to those few that have far more money than any country. How is it that the richest man in the world has his guys peeing in a bottle to make quota and the world can’t say a thing. I sure hope somehow that just some of the 1% decides the world is more than a blob to scrape dig frac the world of its natural worth. All in the want for money, as in the bible “‘ the love of money is the root of all evil. In all of the secrets some are so unreal most people have no ideas that a secret society of the rich is the real leaders of the world. It goes on under our noses, But we don’t see, for them it’s a game to see who can have it all. The people are being told don’t vote it won’t count, it’s rigged it crooked, he is the worst leader America could ever have and he will stay. Will the stupid Democrats wake up or will they keep on doing nothing ! And anything and nothing is what’s going on. As a nobody speaking to the world of nobody’s it’s time that 1 person could take a stand, but in the world today even a man that has as much money as the entire world and pays no tax feels like god. So many buried secrets that new lies are created to keep the secret lies. Just like a herd of cattle, or a Petrie dish, we are also puppets on this FLAT EARTH. Or brown cows give chocolate milk, seems that school didn’t help us but the other countries took full advantage and sent people from all around the world to learn how to fuck the world and have done a better job than us whites. It is true that some boomers took as much as any dictator and more.Only now as our entertainment we watch the search for lost stolen treasure as some truth is revealed. It is time that we hav so I of voters Let’s get it right or try to do what was meant of leaders not gangsters
That’s you seem to THINK that this article is about. But it’s not. It’s just a bunch of BS that buys into the screwed-up belief system that says that if you don’t work way more hours than what your job is *actually paying you to work*, then you’re not “vibrant,” “dynamic,” “enthusiastic,” “take-charge” team member (pick your BS business buzzword here). Modern society has reached the point where working 40 hours a week (7/10 of your life) is considered to be just the starting point — just a bare-minimum that actually doesn’t meet the expectations of corporate management. No, what corporate management expects, if you ever hope to “get ahead” (and really think about that definition of “getting ahead” and if it really, actually IS, in the larger terms of having a happy, fulfilled LIFE), is that you get up early every weekday, switch “on” like an automaton and perform all day, then work *more* hours after your workday is ostensibly supposed to end, and, oh…be available to take emails and calls on the weekend, too, if something “important” comes up.
And if you don’t do that, if that stifles you and frustrates you, if you don’t define yourself in terms of how much time you spend working and not actually living, if you don’t buy into this ridiculous machine that we’ve created that says that everyone has to be so damned “productive” at all times — then apparently you’re just a lazy whiner who needs to get your head examined.
That’s total rubbish. Your article is garbage. We humans are the masters of limitation. We set up these ludicrous structures for ourselves — and then we wonder why a huge percentage of people aren’t happy. We live on caffeine to keep awake, and antidepressants to try to maintain some semblance of happiness. And still, the majority of people don’t like their jobs. A lot of them HATE their jobs. And what else would you expect, from a society whose value system is so messed up that it thinks that people have incarnated into an Earth existence in order to produce widgets and make money 50+ hours per week. And if you don’t buy into that skewed value system, then, society says, YOU are the one who needs your head examined.
Total BS article.
Actually, I know what the article is about because I wrote it.
It’s easier to wear slippers than to carpet the world.
Channel your frustrations to make a change. I did, and negotiated a severance in 2012 because I was frustrated with the lack of career progress and no longer found joy working in finance.
I think you’ll enjoy this post as well: No Need To Win A Financial Argument, Just Get Rich
Another entitled white man who is unhappy at life and thinks his way is the only way, despite being miserable. This is so awesome and entertaining. I love the comments so much!
It is amazing that people say they don’t care write such angry comments.
Hey Greg, the first step to becoming a winner is recognizing that you are a loser. If you’re unhappy with your life, change it. Calling people names and getting angry over the Internet is not gonna help you one bit. You’ll be a loser for the rest of your life.
Oh shut the hell up, Derek. You say I called him names. I didn’t — not even once. Read my post. YOU, on the other hand, called me a loser, twice. Stop projecting.
And when/where in my post did I ever say I don’t care? I did not.
I 100% stand by what I said in my post. This article is a bunch of bull, and it is an embodiment of everything that is wrong with today’s corporate society. I am DESPERATELY taking steps to get out of my situation, and though I am not out of the ball-and-chain, working-for-someone-ELSE’S-dreams life yet, I’ve made some progress since I last posted here. So don’t give me any of your cheap two-bit armchair pseudo-psychoanalysis. Deal?
I’m so glad someone said this. What a bunch of arrogant, ignorant misplaced confidence this person has. Love the example of while he’s listening to 2 young people that are looking for jobs in laptop and one is talking about a seasoned worker getting his position. Didn’t mean they aren’t doing anything productive to seek a successful future. He saw them in a stolen moment of their day and he was listening to their lives instead of having FJ cern for his own client. Sounds so successful
He’s not saying work at your job more than 40 hours a week. He’s saying he work 40 hours a week at a job plus side hustles and online jobs. He didn’t waste time on YouTube or video games, he built a side hustle that turned into a lucrative business that made him wealthy and made investments to keep him wealthy. He was smart and not lazy. The point is, if you want to get ahead, go find a side hustle (DoorDash, Uber, online business or a business at home) and stop coming home after work and watching TV or playing call of duty.
As a person who has never had much ambition I am completely fine with becoming homeless and picking up change in parking lots if Im not told to leave. This will be a very full time job for very little monetary reward.
This website is based upon hunches and personal anecdotes, rather something that was invented a little bit ago called science. Science has shown that a 40 hour a week isn’t necessary. It has shown that a 40 hour week is optimal. That’s what’s stupid about this website.
Read the story of Henry Ford and how he outputted cars at a rate 3x higher than his competitors. Why do you think they instituted the 9-5 work week? It was due to him. We found out that people output the most ABOUT 40 hours per week. The exact amount is different for every person.
And, people who say they work 100 hours a week are lying. Like the guy who wrote this blog, he didn’t work the entire day. He had downtime which is typical in finance. I don’t know what type of analyst he was (sounds like trading) but you don’t work all day. There are so many breaks you take throughout the day in certain jobs. The 40 hours/week recommendation is based upon total hours worked. Yes, in many jobs, you can’t maintain a straight schedule but if you do this, don’t say you work all day. That’s just stupid.
Your comment is an absolute joke. Surgeons and doctors regularly work 60-120 hour weeks, especially in Residency. A recent study in my specialty showed Neurosurgeons AVERAGE 70 hours a week. And then people like you complain we get paid too much. An absolute joke.
Doctors are severely underpaid for the work they do. Providing comfort and a cure and mental support or huge huge huge benefits when someone is sick.
I know a few people who are rich as hell and work 70 to 90hrs a week. They’re also miserable and have destroyed their relationships because of their work schedule. I also know that one of them had to stop because it was causing them health problems.
Hey doc, I got news for you. Doctors are in high demand because people need to survive, you took that career knowing you would work long hours to meet that demand. This is not the case or remotely necessary for most other jobs. Profits don’t need to grow, there is an arbitrary desire to most times. People should not work longer hours to compensate for a lack of planning and management that create delays or financially-threatening situations to the company.
Wow, way to victim blame there Greg.
Is all that time effective time where you are at maximum productivity? You are always on like a laser pointing to an object for 60-120 hours a week? Must be a neurotypical personality type with no attention deficits. That sounds so absurd. I wonder if in those 120 hour work weeks you sleep or exercise or eat healthy, otherwise as a medical professional you are being a massive hypocrite to patients.
I work 35-40 hours per week and make $145,000 plus bonus plus stock options plus a 100% passive side income. All told, I am at around $300,000 per year. NEVER worked more than a 40 hour week in my life. And I don’t plan to. If I were given a choice to quit or work more than 40 hours, I’d quit any day. Because of smart investments (NOT working crazy hours all of my life), I am able to quit if I so choose. Work smart. Not hard.
Life is short. Perhaps you have been fortunate enough not to have lost anyone you love. My brother, perfectly healthy, died unexpectedly of a freak heart attack (age 61). My cousin also died unexpectedly at age 45. (Again: a freak medical issue that he showed no symptoms of.) My mom died within four months of being diagnosed with a glioblastomo brain tumor. My dad died eight months after my mom. None of them were able to take their money with them in death. Unless you have figured a way to do that, then why the bloody h*!! are you advocating everyone kill themselves while alive?
So if you think working those hours is “getting you ahead” in life, great. But how much life do you have left. What if, God forbid, you are like my cousin and literally drop dead at work on a Monday morning at age 45? He, again, was perfectly healthy and had just passed his annual physical the Thursday before with flying colors.
There is more to life than work. What kind of meaning are you getting from life? What memorable life moments are you creating with and for those you love? What deep, lasting, memorable moments are you creating for YOU?! How will your loved ones remember you? What “treasured memories” will they have? “Being lazy” takes on many forms–not just financial. One can “be lazy” in how much time and attention one gives to friends, family, pets, etc.
I know my comments are falling on deaf ears. You’re in a different place in your life and are incapable of true understanding because (again, thank God) you likely haven’t had the kind of soul-crushing, heart breaking loss that many others have experienced. (That is not a judgement; it’s just a statement of fact. Like you, before experiencing loss through death of loved ones, intellectually I could understand the comments about loss and living life to the fullest. But emotionally, I was incapable of undestanding.
Post again in 10 or 15 years (hoping you are still alive). I’d be interested to see how your perspective changes.
In the meantime, I truly hope you can get more of a life than just working and focusing on your financial statements.
I agree. If you don’t want to get ahead, don’t work longer than 40 hours a week. If you do want to try to get ahead, it’s probably worth working longer hours as there are an endless number of things to learn and do.
Everything is rational and I’m glad you have found your perfect balance.
“If you don’t want to get ahead, don’t work longer than 40 hours a week,” is debatable. While “getting ahead” is relative, I would say Heather’s description of her life would certainly qualify.
Keeping your work to 40 hours while being as efficient and intentional as possible, can produce better results than the average person working 60+ hours. It’s about the results you produce in your work week, not the number of hours you work to get them.
I only work 40 hours a week on average. From 2015-2018 I doubled my income and received a promotion. Since 2018, I have increased my income by another 50%. I have recently been selected to be the director of our first satellite office in another city, which will be another promotion and increase in income. You can certainly get ahead while working 40 hours a week, but you need to bust your a** for those 40 hours.
I mean like what the hell. “Getting ahead” – most people that work 40h a week make like 40-50k a year, if you can make 300k with 40h what more of getting ahead do you need? He ist still 6x better than your average dude. I don’t get that. And the biggest force in universe is compound interest anyway, but you cannot force it, only time can…
In what position/field do you work if I may ask? I share your views, I’d rather quit than working more than 40, I very much prefer a good work-life balance over working my soul off and not enjoying life for more money which I will not be able to spend. But looking at jobs in finance hardly any of them are 40hours a week
Capitalist propaganda at its finest. I know people who work those types of hours, I also know many people who abuse various amphetamines to do so. Have you ever heard of a nervous breakdown? Wall Street blow-ups? Work yourself to death, become a cog. Die of stress knowing they’ll just replace you with someone better than you. That’s what capitalism wants. This article itself (despite the disclaimer) is completely ignorant of the fact that most people in our society age, possess ailments, mental health issues, have large families and are immigrants. So yes, I would much rather have time to spend with my family, working on my health, working on my personal growth. Where I work, you don’t get hundred dollar business lunches. You don’t get to play golf with your colleagues. You work all day on your feet until midnight. So tell me, where is the room for balance? How do you spend time with your children? I assume one day you’ll be Cats and the Cradling your own children. Pity. All so that they can run around in cute little brand name sneakers and tote the latest phones and go to upper echelon universities, right? Thanks to you your children will become cogs too. Working more doesn’t make you more valuable to society, it just means they’ve got you whipped.
Learn how to program. 40 hour weeks with $79-$100k starting.
I’m actually super shocked by the shaming that is happening in this article. This is an extremely antiquated way of looking at ‘getting ahead in life.’ For once, people are looking for balance. Finally, people realize that you’re not promised tomorrow, let alone being able to be alive long enough to enjoy the retirement you’re saving for. You’re judging young professionals sitting in a coffee shop on a Wednesday for talking about their career challenges. Ever think their job let them out early that day? Or maybe they took an important mental health day? Or this was their/their friend’s special birthday so they chose friendship over work for just one day. And here you are judging. Shameful.
I actually used to look at people who worked 60+ hours a week and think “yikes – good on you, but there’s other things in life to enjoy.”
I finally started getting ahead in my career and life when I STOPPED putting in 40+ hours a week. It made me work smarter. I got ahead because of what I brought to the table, not because I sat at it 40+ hours every week. Here’s the bottom line – if you can’t get your job done in under 40 hours per week you’re either not working smart and efficient, taking on too much, or you’re doing the job of two people which, in my experience, rarely equates to moving up the ladder anymore – it just means the organization found a willing and able body to cut costs for them.
It all depends on what you cherish most in this world. For some it’s work. For others it’s time with friend, family, animals, non profit work, taking an active role in the community whether it’s work or play. But no matter what you choose – you have the absolute right, as long as you’re doing your job well, to seek higher paying opportunities within a 40 hour work week.
That’s the thing. Anybody can do anything they want. They just have to be CONGRUENT with their desire and their effort. I hope people understand this point.
Everything is rational in the end. This is one of the reasons why America is so great.
Best of luck to you!
Dear Tracy – Its wonderful if you value other things in life, just do not expect someone to compensate you for the non-monetary rewards you are happy with. I think the author is simply pointing out the hypocisy of expecting both. And – there are many many professions which CANNOT be excelled at within a 40 hour week. Period.
Enjoy life – and let us who also want to achieve intellectual and professional excellence enjoy that. If the things someone wants to do brings economic value in the marketplace, great. If they don’t – then the person should build that marketplace… and it will not happen in a 6 hour a day effort!
Let’s just admit it, we have become soft, lazy and self indulgenct as a society… which is why your grandchildren will be speaking mandarin to their bosses – and should NOT expect their ‘right’ to be a fulfilled individual to be respected!
You’ve fallen so deep into the trap of unfettered capitalism that you really believe someone needs to be spending more than a third of their time as a conscious, breathing person working.
Laura, I really pity you and the mindset you’ve been tricked into adopting. We haven’t become soft and lazy… we’ve become aware of what should be healthy and sustainable working conditions, and we’re just waiting for the employers to catch up with that.
I want you to really think about your comment that someone who doesn’t want to work 40 hours a week does not deserve to be a happy person. Think about that. Take thirty seconds of your time, if you aren’t more interested in filling it with needless work, and think about what you said there. Thanks.
YES, Rachel. Yes. Thank you for this comment, couldn’t have said it better myself.
You are so lame keep working 10 hours at week then I could care less
Oh yes, because working to better society for more than a third of your time is somehow bad. Talk about absolutely selfish nonsense. “Needless work”
Most people work to
make the rich richer while they’re left exhausted & struggling to pay bills
Would love some Input into my situation. I work 60 a week in manual labor job and it’s just breaking me. I’m in FULL BLOWN crisis mode to find a new career. Being number and word dyslectic has hurt me professionally, but I am determined like like a RAGING BULL to figure it out. When I was younger I wanted Ferrari’s and Lamborghinis and mansions. Now I just want a paid off small condo anywhere on Long Island. Not afraid of the hood, of all my flaws at least I’m tough as nails. I love the blog FINANCIAL SAMURAI but at my 60 hours I’m about to breakdown before my 30th birthday, I understand the hard work aspect but this cannot go on for me so your post strings a cord of mine (anger) because I feel as though I have no confidence that I will be successful in a different endeavor Me living on Long Island I have a few months of trying to make it in a new career before the safety funds run out. Any advice to the gig stuff I could do?
Crickets.
Don’t you have family money?
The system is BROKEN
No one should “have to work 60 hours or more” just to make ends meet, ffs. What dumb idiocy
“Be a slave to your employer so you can HOPEFULLY, at some point, make enough money to pay the bills and PERHAPS enjoy life in what little free time you have left.”
Yeah… no. F that :P
Also… seizing the means of production, so that FAR MORE STAKEHOLDERS in big companies’ operations, profits, and the like, get a say, not just a handful of “corporate oligarchs” at the top, wouldn’t hurt, either. Like… a handful of greedy “a-holes” at the top of each big or medium-sized company SHOULD GET TO DECIDE so much, all on their own, as if they “know best for everyone”, esp. EVERY EMPLOYEE working there?? As if… the employees- let alone average consumers and residents in the area- “don’t know jack”… lol. This is a very short-sighted approach to “economy”, if you ask me!
If the economy, more or less, is “run by” or “led by” only a HANDFUL OF PEOPLE, then… don’t be surprised when the economy, more or less, SERVES those same people, primarily, w/ the rest of us ‘getting the scraps’ of their various ‘innovations’, companies founded, jobs created, ‘growth’ produced, etc. etc.
and yet… we’re supposed to believe this VERY-LIMITED economic system (modern capitalism) is somehow “super empowering”?? rofl
What a JOKE
Ok. Do you have any suggestions on how to outperform the average person without working harder than the average person or taking more risks than the average person?
Yes! I am entitled to having a rich life with everything and anything I want just like anybody else because I’m an American. Why should I have to work hard or work more than others to get ahead. I deserve the best.
People like you or making it difficult for other people to have a good life.
Ok sorry. I will try to work less and relax more. There is an upside because that way I can spend more time with my little ones.
Related: https://www.financialsamurai.com/the-secret-to-your-success-10-years-of-unwavering-commitment/
Hey Sam,
I appreciate your articles. I negotiated a severance package because of an article of yours that I read, so thank you! My thing is that at my old company I was a very hard worker but had a bully for a boss that psychologically tortured me to the point that my performance went down. I couldn’t think clearly and got burnt out. I’m in the process of starting my own business now, but am terrified to go back to corporate if I need to. In your article “career killers” you said to know your place, but I just couldn’t take being bullied after being a star preformer so I stood up for myself and that’s when my performance went down because of my bosses ego. How do you navigate those political waters without losing it?
Nice job negotiating a severance!
taking financial advice from a obvious communist? real smart…
sure, you do indeed work too much, you shouldnt work more than 38 hours for your long-term health, but this nutjob is a self-entitled brat who thinks the world owes “a gold medal” just cos he was born in a place. ppl like him are the reason most of the world hates america. he doesnt think he should have to work for any reward, it should just be handed to him, “cos entitlement”
I’m not. I’m just being respectful and entertaining his ideas.
In 2020, I’d like to ideally work 30 hours a week to build enough capital by end of 2022 in order to retire early and spend time with my young children again.
See: https://www.financialsamurai.com/my-early-retirement-master-plan-fire-by-45/
Pathetic article. You people really have nothing better to do in your life than work? I’m a freelance programmer and I work 20 hours a week or less. The rest of my time I do my hobbies, read, meet with my friends etc. I feel seriously sorry for people who are proud of themselves working a lot. That’s just so freakin’ sad.
Not only that, but the dude admits in his first paragraph that the reason he has to work so much is because he has no skills and is committed to not learning any. Then he talks about how he’d be fired if he works less than 40. No shit, you aren’t valuable. People who work less than 40 and still have their job because they can do things you can’t do. How is that hard to understand? It’s the old American “I’m better than you because I constantly put my nose to the grindstone.” No. You constantly put your nose to the grindstone because you don’t have another option and are too dumb and lazy to create one.
^^ This
You’re a moron
I should add (to my previous comment) that working more than 40 hours to truly “get ahead” isn’t so bad, if we define “get ahead” by “becoming very wealthy”. But a job ought to just be a job, and ought te be done within 40 hours, management positions included. Ordinary or even slightly above average salaries simply are not worth the additional hours spent.
As for me, I did work over 40 hours, for a while, as I was trying to “get ahead”. My day looked like so: 1 hour to get ready for work, 1.5 – 2 hour commute, 4 hours work, 30 mins break, 4 hours work, 1.5 – 2 hour commute home. The days were long. On top of that, frequently we had evening or over-the-weekend deploys (I’m a software developer) and I did not complain and did those, too. Sure, it helped: I got a promotion to team lead and a marginal raise, and the company said they envisioned Many Good Things for my future, and showed me the various trajectories to what I’d like to call Management Nirvana.
But despite being cognitively able to cope just fine (I was not depressed or burnt out at all), I did notice I could feel my heart pounding, as I did experience stress and had a lack of sleep. I figured I’d be fine since I’m only in my twenties, and common knowledge teaches heart attacks only really happen when your at least in your forties, so I wasn’t too concerned.
Then, around 1 year in, I noticed a bunch of bald patches on the top/back of my head. That’s right: hair loss caused by stress. I wasn’t too bothered, but upon closer inspection of myself, I’d additionally noticed: an increase in facial wrinkles, a higher resting heart rate, and a higher body fat %.
I realised this is the trajectory to an early death, and decided to change course.
For me, I’ve been wanting to start my own business, but with ongoing bills and demanding jobs, this, of course, isn’t easy to pull off. So, I did something in between: I went freelance, first. See, freelance hourly rates are a lot higher than ordinary wage slave hourly salaries. The main difficulties are that it takes a hell of a lot more organising: you need to make sure you have an ongoing feed of gigs, you can’t just spend all your money as it comes in but need to “spread it out” incase of harder times, you need to figure out what risks you are incurring as you are not insured for certain things, etc. But the payoff if you manage to do these things is significant.
By going freelance, I was able to double my yearly net income. I then was VERY STRICT WITH MYSELF and did not increase my expenses (save a few smaller things that I’d been wanting for ages, like better clothes). Instead, I saved & saved & saved and am now living on my savings, self-funding by business that I’m trying to get going.
If I can’t get things running before my savings run out (in about 6 months), I will simply rinse & repeat. Once you are able to only have to work 3 – 6 months a year in order to cover all required expenses, you’re already very close to retirement, but without the initial wait & hustle. I prefer this over investing in stocks etc, because it allows me to LIVE NOW (I’m 29) instead of having to delay my life.
It’s not a massively rich life in terms of wealth, but I get by just fine! 3 months work as a freelance software engineer pays me about the same as an average salaried worker where I live, so I’ve got nothing to complain about. Besides, it was mostly about freedom for me anyways, not about buying a load of junk. I’m a lot more free now than I used to be.
Easy for you to say, you might think, since I’m in software development. Do you realise that there are many, many professions with very decent hourly rates? Dieticians and accountants are just 2 examples that I happen to know to be earning just fine, too.
If you do not have rich relatives which can fund your startup or give you leverage, then your best bet for getting out of your shitty job is to LEARN YOURSELF A SKILL THAT IS VALUABLE IN THE CURRENT ECONOMY and then, crucially, DO NOT BE AFRAID TO ASK WHAT YOU’RE WORTH.
Doesn’t it strike you as odd that despite many women having joined the workforce these past decades AND productivity per individual worker steeply increasing, salaries haven’t kept up at all? We should be at least twice as rich, but we’re not. In fact, we became more poor.
Clearly, salaries as well as prices will just adapt to what the majority of people accept (or tolerate). You in the U.S. should follow France’s example: fight for your freedoms (freedom from poverty, freedom to see your family, etc) and you’ll notice how “magically” salaries will increase compared to prices. The economy will just keep humming on, but now suddenly everybody will be able to get by on 40 hours just fine.
By the by – are you saying you delayed having children until after your 40’s? Many men seem to do that, but obviously for women time is somewhat shorter, as their baby factories might not work anymore by that time.
Also, men, I should inform you that even if you are still fertile over 40, recent research has shown that the chance of DNA defects in your newborn increases massively over age 40, so you might want to consider starting younger anyways…
Search “Older fathers put health of partners, unborn children at risk” and you should be able to find the article.
Some of us do. I’m a programmer. I work probably 35 a week on average. If I’m confronted about it, I get a new job. It’s really all about how easy you are to replace. Honestly I could do 5 hours of work per week and still probably be OK because nobody in this area can program.
I sleep 8 hours each day. Commute 2 hours.
Work 8 hours. Remaining 6 hour are for myself and my family. And taking care of ourselves, family and friends is most important for us. If we are already giving less time to what’s most important,how can we expect more work hours.i would vote for 6 hours day. These hours were defined by factory owners many decades ago, which should change now. We work to earn for living and if their is no time to live, what’s the point.
That’s a tough commute. Any chance of being able to work from home one day a week due to technology?
Also, have you tried sleeping 6-7 hours a day and using the morning to do something else? Could be good! Join The 5 am club I started in the FS Forum to get going.
My personal goal is to retire early again with two kids by Sept 1, 2022. Here’s my Early Retirement Master Plan if you are interested.
Seriously? It’s not how much you work, it’s how you manage what you make. To me, 40 hours is more than enough, especially when you have a home and family.
How long does it take you away from your home? Well, you have to get up and get ready, it takes time to drive there and drive home, and in the middle of the day you have a lunch break. I am 60 now and retired, but for me I was away from home for about 10 hours a day during the work week.
If you’re not complaining about your financial situation, career, etc, then no worries! This post is not for you.
I totally believe kicking back and relaxing is great. But not so much if you want to build wealth.
Building wealth working 60 hrs week? You build wealth by having others work for you 60 hours a week.
True. I need to find me some good people to work long hours so I don’t have to.
Related: The Secret To Your Success: 10 Years Of Unwavering Commitment
40 hours a week is just fine for me. 80 hours means you must not have a life? Being a corporate slave is not high on my list. You baby boomers sure love to work all day and watch football. Talk about a lame lifestyle.
I’m just really surprised at the comments. I can only speak to my experience. I worked fast food when I was kid. Then in college I worked production in manufacturing. In a building that used steam for processing operations and there was no air conditioning in the summer. It was usually over 90 deg inside in the summer. I made it through college paying for a good portion myself. Met my wife later who paid for most of college herself. We both had student loans to pay off.
My first job I only made $36k as salary. But they also paid straight-time overtime which I didn’t quite understand as a salary employee. But I worked a fair amount of overtime. I went to work for another company and worked on an MBA at night. Company had tuition reimbursement so I only had to pay the tax on that reimbursement. At that point I was working about 40 hours a week and then doing another 20+ hours for an MBA. Plus commute time. With a new baby at home. Suffice it to say, it was difficult and I didn’t sleep enough and it was affecting my health but I knew it was temporary.
I don’t feel like I learned a ton in the MBA, but it opened a door for a new job, still in manufacturing. I went to work there. About a year after that, my boss wanted to retire and I raised my hand and volunteered for the job. Nobody else wanted it so I got the job. Got a nice raise because I was low paid person in the department. The people who would now report to me were making more! I still work there, over 10 years now. We’ve helped grow the company 10 fold. There were some bonuses over the years. But the main factor is my salary is higher than average in this LCOL area. I can’t retire early (yet) or anything. But I should be able to pay for retirement and my kids college.
I’m not bragging. And I was blessed to not start out from a single parent home in the inner city at the poverty level. But I went to public schools as a kid and had to work through college. You can get ahead. You have to work your ass off along the way. I’m mid-40’s now, still work roughly 8am to 6pm (sometimes 7pm) with usually a 10min lunch break in the work break room. Plus 1.5 to 2 hours of commute time per day. Plus keeping in touch by phone and email on weekends.
I’m also trying to get better at stock market investing. I started with almost nothing here and am making my way to a good retirement. I’m also dabbling in real estate investing. I don’t have much extra time so I’ve contracted with a property manager who does the day-to-day operations.
I’ve reached a point where when I get home at 7pm or later my brain is mush from the day job. I like to relax a bit with the family and maybe even turn on the TV. But that won’t help me get ahead. So instead of going to bed between 10:30 and 11:30, I’m trying to make sure I’m in bed by 10pm. Then get up at 5am and work on whatever needs done….investments, real estate, etc. It’s working….I’ve found another productive hour in the day that was previously lost being unproductive at the end of the day.
Sorry for the long comment. But the point is, I’m not smarter than anyone else. In fact, I’d say all of the people that report to me are smarter than me. But none of them want my job because I “work too much.” All of the successful managers in my company work a lot. No worries if people only want to work 40 hours in my company. But you’ll never get promoted that way.
My vision: Keep working my ass off. My kids will have college funded. (We may design some student loan debt for them for financial education purposes but that’s optional for us.) We should be able to retire early….but maybe won’t. Invest in some real estate. Create a situation where there is some passive income (real estate) as a backstop….safety net….for future generations. Don’t want the kids to live off a trust fund. But who knows what the future holds.
Trying to make the future bright for my family and future generations that aren’t even born yet by grinding it out now and working harder than (almost) everyone else.
I LOVE your attitude. You have the right money mindset to get ahead.
After writing on Financial Samurai since 2009, one of the key attributes a person needs to have to gain wealth is to have the right attitude. “Why not me too?” when it comes to building wealth.
The only people who recommend taking it easy are your competitors. If you don’t like your situation, make some changes.
Related posts:
The Secret To Your Success: 10 Years Of Unwavering Commitment
Spoiled Or Clueless: Try Working A Minimum Wage Job As An Adult
One other comment that occurred to me. You don’t have to go to college. You don’t have to become a manager. Skilled trades are in demand, at least around here. My company struggles to keep all their jobs filled. It’s a job seeker’s market around here….the midwest, low cost of living area. There are programs out there to learn the trades.
Mike Rowe – The Dirty Jobs guy – has a foundation to encourage people to go into the trades. They have scholarships. Just need to apply. Get a scholarship, become a welder. In the rust belt here you should be able to make $50,000 to $60,000 as a skilled welder. Willing to work hard and put in overtime? You can possibly get to $100,000 per year. Those salaries go a long way in a LCOL area.
I got news for you honey, you really are out of touch if you expect people to be working 60 plus hours a week just to make the minimum required in order to survive in today’s economy. A lot of the older Generations don’t have the particular pain points that today’s younger Generations have… increased cost of living with little-to-no increased compensatory rates to deal with that, increase cost of healthcare, Les housing market, Les housing market for your money, less ability to invest, higher costs of higher education, with less in the way of loans and federal assistance for those higher cost of Education, Etc.
You also seem completely ignorant of the people who want to work 40 hours a week or more and are unable to. I myself I’m still a temp, and I work and an at-will state. I got sent home early Tuesday I got paid no holiday pay for Wednesday, and I have been sent home early today. It’s not because I don’t want to work… It’s because of the people who are working, I’m the lowest on the totem pole, which means I get booted out first, When there’s less for people to do, in order to give the people with higher seniority the ability to work the hours that they have been offered. you also seem completely ignorant of the people who want to work 40 hours a week or more and are unable to. I am myself I’m still attempt, and I work and at will state. I got sent home early Tuesday I got paid no holiday pay for Wednesday, and I have been sent home early today. It’s not because I don’t want to work… It’s because of the people who are working, I’m the lowest on the totem pole, which means I get booted out first, when there’s less for people to do, in order to give the people with higher seniority the ability to work the hours that they have been offered.
You also should not be forced to work overtime just to barely make ends meet. Implying otherwise to me tells me that you come from an age or rather, a generation, where people were actually fairly compensated for their work, work ethic, company loyalty, Etc. Unfortunately things just aren’t that way today. You are completely out of touch with how actual employment versus income vs expense works today. Oh, and to speak to your rather snarky, supercilious comments about people who aren’t working in the middle of the day complaining? Not everybody works implying otherwise to me tells me that you come from an age or rather, a generation, ra people were actually fairly compensated for their work, work ethic, company loyalty, Etc. Unfortunately things just aren’t that way today. You are completely out of touch with how actual employment vs income vs expense works today. Oh, and to speak tear rather snarky, super silly is comments about people who aren’t working in the middle of the day complaining? Not everybody works Monday through Friday 9 to 5 or 9 to 6 or a similar work day, some people actually have to work weekends, which means they have to have a day off during the middle of the week. Or two. As the case may be. Some people also work graveyards, even people who are the Elite like lawyers Etc… Doesn’t mean they’re going to be working your average work day. Also with regards to the two women on the bus, how do you know that that woman didn’t have to get up at 4 in the morning to deal with a young child commute then go pick up young child and commute home? I am scheduled to work from 9:30 a.m. to 6 p.m. Monday through Friday. some people also work graveyards, even people who are the elite like lawyers Etc… Doesn’t mean they’re going to be working your average work day. Also with regards to the two women on the bus, how do you know that that woman didn’t have to get up at 4 in the morning to deal with young child commute then go pick up young child and commute home? I am scheduled to work from 9:30 a.m. to 6 p.m. Monday through Friday. I leave the house every morning by 6 a.m., because I have an hour-long commute to get my son to his child care, then I have to commute back to my work which is an additional 22 30 minutes depending on traffic, then go back to pick him up, then in additional our long or more commute home depending on traffic. So I spend from about 6 a.m. to sometimes as late as 8 p.m. out of the house every single day, away from my seven-month-old son. Do you really think that that’s not a long day, no matter how you twist or describe it?
Just because I’m only scheduled eight or nine hours in a day doesn’t mean that’s all that I’m doing during the day and it doesn’t mean that that’s the only time that I spend away from my home and my family. And I can guarantee you that a lot of the people you’re implying or being lazy, or just aren’t working hard enough, are in the same kind of boats.
So yes, I say again, your way the hell out of touch with reality, and as far as I’m concerned? You’re pretty out of line with your data points 2, which aren’t data points they’re your opinions, just by the way.
The 40 hour work week is literally supposed to bring in enough to live on and half the people i know can’t even do that.
Holy shit what planet do you live on
Slightly daft advice. Maybe it works if you’re a trader, biglaw lawyer, or in IB where you make 150K++ for those extra hours. Maybe it works if you’re an hourly employee, and extra hours actually translate to extra income.
Want to know the situation for most of us? We get in to work, work 40+, and are then paid for 40 hours or less, based on the same salary as 10+ years ago. I suppose I could sue my employer for mandated OT (i.e. to actually pay for the work I’m doing), but I don’t imagine my employment relationship afterwards would be excellent.
Also, frankly, your view as to people who aren’t willing to work unpaid OT is about as myopic as can be. Yes, it’s true enough in IB and biglaw, where it’s not really unpaid OT because you’re being paid a truckload. It’s not true in most salaried positions. The manager making 150K ain’t making jack if he’s not being paid hourly.
Also, though you won’t agree because it won’t fit your agenda, the reality is that golf, meetings with clients, company teambuilding retreats and such are not real work. It’s not to say they don’t add value, but if you’re comparing your lunchtime martini to a janitor literally wiping your shit off the toilet bowl….well you’re quite deluded.
I agree that people should bitch less and work to improve their situations more. Working longer hours though won’t necessarily do that. I went from a 70-80h/w job to a 40-50h/w job which pays me more and requires less overhead (100% remote, etc). That leaves me more time to do things I love, and to focus on earning income in other ways.
Yea Yea high horseman go on pushing that Propaganda to the sheep who might have lapped it up 40 years ago but this generation and the one under it don’t buy that B.S. any more then we believe in Santa Clause and the Tooth Fairy. Math tells the real truth to the story and forms the base of a really easy to understand equation…………#1 Over 40 hours is OT over time in the USA and if your single male or female the tax % rate for OT hours even at minimum wage pay rates is high and it makes it pointless to work more then 50 hours in any one work week or pay period week. Now if your married or have kids or both then you can get away from the Tax hike and Over time becomes slightly more practical for those people who also have a motivation for working 60-70 hours a week leaving only 50 hours for sleep and other activity or 60 depending.
Moving on to the next series of complaints regarding company forced OT and working more then 40 hours per week………..health and personal wealth or gain. People may find it really hard to enjoy those sports or hobbies during retirement age if they are to old and broke down to enjoy the fun. Yea a 65-70 year old man might be able to afford that new Mustang or Corvette but it’s not like that will win him any women other then the gold digger type and I promise that sounds better then the reality of it. Sex is not very fun when your partner is faking it 100% of the time or trying to get out of it 50% of the time. The only way to enjoy some of life’s gifts is when you have youth on your side and health. Health is a gamble at best based mostly on DNA which you and I do not control and it’s handed down to you. Sure you can cheat the reaper for a bit and exercise and eat right and say your night time prayers, take your vitamins, say three hail Marry’s and then go shut the fuck up when you get ball sack cancer at age 43 looking like Mr. Olympia. Life simply does not work the way many think that it does and it simply is not fair and that sucks a big one…………..simple fact of it is that some people have two parents that are either wealthy or close to wealthy and they provide not only a economic boost but a educational and environmental emotional boost for their offspring. The other people don’t enjoy that life so they fight harder and try other paths like the military or work or college after hours. Some go on to make wealth via ideas or via scams………mostly scams.
I can go on all day and probably if I wanted to work hard for free…..provide %’s graphs, and even first person testimony as to why working more does not = more wealth or more happiness in life. Simple Steven says that American workers have figured out that they got sold under the bridge to Chinese slaves and are finally starting to open their glued shut eyes to the wrongs of the labor unions, companies, government, elite, and even in many cases local officials trying every day to scam more cash out of the hands of the people who earned it any way they could. I think the writer of this article actually needs a taste of ( Everything taken away and bank accounts put on hold for 10 years ) See if that motivates his or her thoughts on 40 hour work weeks. I can promise you that no matter how many hours per week you work if the hourly pay is low or minimum wage or for that matter under 20$ hourly it wont matter how many hours you put in weekly you will stay in a poor state of financial being due to the high cost of living and other problems associated with getting to work on time……..vehicle and forced insurance costs, forced medical insurance costs, high rental fees if you can’t find room mates or family to rent off of, repairs and vehicle maint. costs. Whoops forgot those college loan or educational costs, whoops forgot to add the costs of legal fees or divorce fees or lawyer fees, whoops what about ankle biter fees!!
The only keys to saving or earning money I have found are basic #3 factors…………Don’t have kids or get married unless you make 50,000$ a year period and really that number needs to be 75,000$ a year for it to work out great. #2 Don’t over spend on shit like cars and things you don’t need all the time…..IE fancy dinners and eating out every week. #1 Make more money then you spend on living life………good luck with that I failed at it.
This is just extremely awful advice. As the adage goes – work smarter, not harder. To say that those that disagree with you are simply complainers is also extremely short-sighted. Thankfully these newer generations (mine included) are valuing a work-life balance more than previous ones, more than likely due to seeing their parents shrivel away from the stress and burnout that your “work 60 hours a week” motto entails. Difference being you got to retire in your 30s – good for you – and the rest of our parents couldn’t until their 60s. I think if you hadn’t had the luck to retire early you wouldn’t be gleefully judging the rest of us from your high horse. Ditto if your job didn’t include constantly schmoozing with clients and such.
Seriously – most financial gurus advise that the key is to gradually wean yourself off from having to work as many hours so you can gain financial freedom. If you can retire early, even better, but no true “fiancial guru” would advise working yourself to death to get to that point. This isn’t a race.
There are a few people who *can* work like robots for 30+ years, such as the janitor you mentioned, or my neighbor who consistently works overtime at UPS. There are even stimulants that can help you become more robot-like. But from the majority of people I’ve met including the UPS worker, this is a miserable life done only from necessity (he had debts and a family to support) or from putting money over the people in your life (wife, parents, children, friends, etc).
I have no problem with folks who want to go the more scenic route to financial independence. We all have our own desires and goals. I’m just saying it is illogical to want to achieve financial independence early on, yet not want to put in the work to accelerate the path.
Two relevant articles to read:
The Secret To Your Success: Making A 10-Year Unwavering Commitment
Your Wealth Is Mostly Luck: Don’t Take It For Granted
Thank God for the comments. Reading this makes me never want to talk to another human being if the majority of us think like this.
75-80 hours per week sounds unbelievable. How would you ever get anything done outside of work? Are your kids raising themselves? Didn’t finish homework ’til around 10pm ’til slacked off that shit and other stuff. Now, feeling bouts of faintness as if about to pass out and heartaches. Many comments are mentioning wives. Try by yourself with all sorts of other responsibilities like volunteering and working to make life better for others, as well. Schools complaining not spending enough time their needs when doing more than some others. Basically, the issue, maybe as it seems, is pushing individual values on others that may be harmful or against the purpose of life for some. Say, for instance, you prefer name brand and so you push for all people to prefer or purchase only name brand cause it’s your priority/ value. Same difference to me.
It’s a breeze maybe when you’re young with no responsibilities. Even then, especially for women, we would be throwing away our prime years. Once we hit that 40; for regular women, it’s pretty much downhill from there. Tried making the right decisions and in terms of family and career. Best thing to ever happen to me was my kids, and life taking them away. Life pretty much over now. Superstars and the like throw themselves in the mix with comparisons, but they have a crew who take care of most things for them. Agents, assistants, nannies, cooks, personal trainers, favors, bodyguards, PR, pampering, etc. Just my opinion. Please do not beat me up. Of course, aware may be wrong. Just throwing in my 2 cents.
Viewpoint was that we share this planet, and it provides for us all. Source of all my talents, abilities, ideas, blessings, ambition, and maybe fortitude stem from not the self. I didn’t create myself so how can I attribute all blessings to only myself. Those were my thoughts at one point. Reasons for my decisions and behavior. Now, I am neutral and try not to think too much just make it thru each day ’til my name is called for whatever awaits us after this life.
Not complaining; just sharing a perspective cause aware nothing is promised in life. Feel blessed just fearful of vultures. However, I have always never really cared for life ’til had kids to care for. Now, can’t say oh that’s life anymore — not just affecting only me. Don’t want the glitz and glam anyway. Not a competitive person. Horrible at hustling and have given labor away for free at times. Just the nature of some people; I guess. Maybe, one would have to live many lives to understand life; or at least aware of not aware of all life. Not sure. I for sure wouldn’t pretend to have it all figured out. To me, life is so strange and confusing.
Agreed! This article was written obviously by the older generation who only lived to serve mindlessly like drones.
I wrote this article when I was 33 and I retired the following year. I haven’t worked a day job since 2012.
Being financially independent and being able to retire early is worth the hustle.
But everything is rational in the end. Feel free to do what you see fit.
I mean, good for you dude, but this is just one reason why Americans die younger than the French.
Apparently you have never worked 40 hours dragging air handlers out of a 20 inch crawl space! I make off a change out about 50 bucks while my boss makes 1500 bucks in his pocket!
Imean it dosent help some jobs simply refuse to give you more hours, or are crap enough pay that it’s not worth it regardless
It’s not as cut and dry as “oh hey btw just work moreit’s easy, dont complain” some of us physically cant/are unable to I would LOVE to get more hours at any job I work at, but that dosent happen in alot, especially with major chains (like walmart) who budget hours to these people so strictly that I’ve seen fights break out cause somone got bonus hours
How did your boss become the boss? Did he or she get there working 40 hours a week or less?
I’m genuinely curious.
I’m in full blown crisis mode to get out of hvac ASAP. I can’t work more then 40 and need a new career ASAP. The chemicals, the dust, aspectos. All in life i pray for now is a decent job and a paid off condo.
Your answer is right here. U said it yourself.
”It’s not like the 75-80 hours a week spent on work is all work either. It’s fun to interact online, go play golf with clients, get some lunch and earn some income in the process.”
Not everyone works them cushy ass wanna be “tough” jobs. None of your data points are worth anything. Every job you spoke of was just little office work sissy’s. Like yourself.
When them extra hours of actual work u claim isn’t shit. Your speaking about people, A. That don’t mind overtime an comfortable with their income or don’t need or care to have more. Or they find their personal Time way more valuable. Some people don’t have a lil bitch twat of a job. You know people that actually have to earn it. Not “playing golf” or going out to “company lunch” or “playing online” outside of the actual work.
Though none of your data points I would ever even think of as “work”. Every data point job u spoke of, even your job sounds like an complete vacation. Hell I would of been steady pushing 100 a week if I had worked some lil twat like job like that myself.
But from past experience.
Some of us actually work like MEN. An don’t have these lil female office paper pushing jobs ect. I now work for myself but what about say like where I was. A steel maker. Basically did the chemistry of 80 ton batches of steel at 2,900° among so much more. Shifts are 12 hours an 15 minutes. Unless we were needed to work 16. Longest day I put in was 18.5 hours aside from that. Example my money was good enough I didn’t care to have overtime. Still done it ect. But most of the work was backbreaking in that place. Beyond extremely hot and deadly. Had many friends killed there.
So 12 hours 15 minutes plus an hour drive to an from 60-84 hours a week. I would wake up at 3 am leave about 3:20am. Drive an hour. Have just enough spare time to maybe stop to grab a lunch or breakfast for work. Get there get suited up in all kinda special shit for a meeting and work to start at 5am after. Their wasn’t any “golfing”. It was work from getting there to leaving.
Anyone call out get ready to be forced into 16 hours.
But would work to 5pm. Mans work. Not that twat stuff you claim as work. So by time Ild get home 6pm. Dragging from heat exhaustion and back an joint pains 6:30 or so comes around finally showered. And can manage to sit for a few minutes just to get back on the feet to put anything together to eat. So any relaxing can take place. Because by that time theirs not really much can be done with kids ect that has school to dress up an go do anything at that time.
Getting in the bed finally comes around 10pm or so.
For what 4 hours of sleep just to do it all again. So maybe the lil way job you had allowed 50 of free fun an relaxful time with the family. I had a easy day if I had to work and just come home to eat.
It’s a whole other story if I needed to wash uniforms ect. I would not let the wife do it because of the amount of lead dust ect I was taking home on me Ild have to undress before going in next to my vehicle in the garage. And if I needed to cut grass ect.
Though that lil job u had which was so cushy I’m sure u had ample time for the lawn ect.
Point is some people don’t want need or care to have overtime. Even if they need it. Sometimes shit just isn’t completely worth it. At times I could of used extra an others not so much. But when u have no worthy time with your family and your joints in your hands are clicking and snapping and back hurting at 30. Fuck the overtime. Far as I’m concerned you and anyone u spoke of in your lil data points are all pusses.
None of y’all know what REAL work is.
So much hatred on this comment. Sounds like you’re too stressed out of your job brother, because of the fact that you posted this at 2am.
People need to adapt to the world we live in, there’s a lot of ways to make money in this world and one over another doesn’t make a man a man or a woman more of a woman. Currency is currency, however it’s earned. Don’t blame others about personal frustrations; people need not to complain nor play victims, they need to do their best to exit the rat race.
Maybe you should spend this little time you have to learn a new skill to pacify your needs. Just a thought. Sending you some good vibes and I’m praying for you brother.
Doing heavy, dangerous and exhausting work for 12-14hours a day will kill you, or the people around you. The pay is great, but useless when you’re dead. I work in logging on the west coast of Canada. Three people died this week here. Is waking up at 2:00am to get up a mountain to cut down old growth forests worth that $100,000/yr. Maybe. I feel the steel makers pain. When you work that much in a tough job, you tend to go crazy. Typically that gets exacerbated with alcohol or other substances. The 40 hour work week was implemented as a direct response to these types of jobs. I’m just guessing but I feel that as a result of our debt ridden culture, employers are more empowered to ask more from employees and there is percieved to be nothing the employee can do about it. Saving money is the way out, if you’ve got the focus. I’ve been killing myself for the last seven years with jobs like these, but I’ve put away a tidy little sum and with the help of blogs like these and other resources have learned to invest. Now I may just work as a bicycle mechanic.
Brother, save your money and get out of that steel place. No job is worth dying for.
People have the choice to work at which ever job they choose. Physical, labor intensive jobs are no joke. I’ve worked a couple of those jobs with long hours and to me, I realized that my own personal health, actually having the time to spend and enjoy the money I earned was more important to me than working in down in those tunnels.
I now have one of those “cushy corporate/office jobs” and they’re stressful in a different way. Some people do complain too much and I agree that some people don’t know what it is to work jobs like the one you described but our world is changing. People are starting to choose to work to live rather than live to work.
Exactly dude, u get it
Rubbish, personal time is far more valuable than working 50 plus hours a week to be your corporate master’s bitch. Many studies have shown the negative effects of grinding out the hours week after week, especially on people who DO NOT enjoy being forced into overtime they do not want in order to have a job and live. We are sick of being told to suck it up, or that’s life. We should not be in a situation where we see our wives/kids an hour a day and are working/sleeping the rest. As more of us (the younger generations) value our personal time and space more than being somewhere we don’t want to be making someone we don’t even like rich, companies are going to have to adapt to more flexible working conditions or run the risk of not being able to find workers willing to put up with it. As the older workaholic generations die off they are going to find it harder and harder to treat employees like pack mules and be able to have anyone willing to work for them. No point in grinding out 70 hours a week for all of that money when you have no time to enjoy it.
Thank you for your voice of reason. This person who wrote the blog says he is enjoying “early retirement” and taking care of his 1 year old son. What woman can wait till they are that old to have their first child? He talks about other ridiculous ideas in his “data points” that may have worked for him in his singularly self absorbed “life”. Pure Rubbish is right!
Kate Gordon
I agree. This article is complete rubbish. Plus. $33,000.00 is NOT in the top 50% of top income earners! I almost cried laughing when I read that. $33,000.00 is considered working poor. You aren’t even above the Federal Poverty Level at that point. They can’t hardly even tax you as is at $33,000.00 what do you pay? A max of -30% of taxes after you receive your income tax return? I can tell you this out of my own personal experience. I was making $46,000.00 and was paying 12% in taxes. Which is roughly $5,000.00-$6,000.00 in taxes. With my children, I would receive child tax credits. These tax credits pushed me over and brought me back $8,000.00 – $9,000.00 in income tax returns. So $33,000.00 isn’t worth the time. If I were being paid $10.00 per hour, I would quit that job lickety split!
The Federal Poverty Limit is $12,140 for one person as of 2019.
https://www.financialsamurai.com/how-to-qualify-for-healthcare-subsidies-under-the-affordable-care-act-even-as-a-multi-millionaire/
I’m glad you at least got to laugh. Laughter is the best.
Yes people work 49 hours a week they still exist. Honestly I couldn’t imagine working more working 4 10 hour days is absolutely plenty for me. All the naysayers who act like working 80-100 hours a week is great is absolutely ridiculous. Congratulations on all your money, but when exactly you gonna have time to spend it? Then again these workaholics brag they only need 3 hours of sleep which isn’t a good thing at all I would like to look like I’m 40 when I’m 40 not look 40 when I’m 25 because I get almost no sleep. That and I also enjoy life, that is not working. I work because I have to not because I want to, no money equals no fun so I do the minimum so I can have maximum amount of fun and spend time with my family. I make $37.75 an hour so 40 hours a weeks I beautiful.
That’s bull shit . You get free money to have kids. And I have to pay my taxes to you .. I get $600
Return . There’s the problem with our taxes.
The kids are your responsibility. Not mine !
Look. I agree with this article. It’s simply a matter of direct proportion. The more you work the more you earn. Simple.
Dude not every city or large town has your kinds of cushy jobs available. Some people actually have to WORK for a living and most places of employment don’t even hire full time employees, never the less do overtime.
I could do an explanation about all the jobs that try to skirt overtime, and how few places actually have full time workers, because they don’t want to pay 18k per full time employee on benefits like healthcare…
But here’s the deal… If we made the base wage higher so that you could get ahead with less work you know what that would do? That would get less money in the hands of CEOs who take the money and park it offshore, and MORE money in the hands of people who NEED it, and will SPEND it, and thus creates economic stimulus.
If everyone is working 60 hours a week, that’ll hurt the economy. Do you know why? Of course you don’t. Because you get bored easily apparently and can’t handle it. You don’t know how to have proper hobbies, which means that you don’t understand that without people to watch t.v. shows, ratings will go down, and there will be less money available for t.v. shows. Same with Video Games, that bear statue, hand crafted wood furniture, fewer people will have time to go to resturaunts, they will suffer…
Having people work more hours just means less hours for the economy to run effectively because you should get at least 50 hours of sleep a night, then you get 30-80 hours of work a week.
There’s 168 hours in a week, so you have 118 non sleep hours, 30-90 non work hours, 10 of those hours are probably gone for commute to work, showering, shaving, and other pre-post work prep.
So 20-80 non work non sleep related, to cook food, enjoy yourself, and if everyone ends up closer to the 30 hour mark the economy will crash. Not to mention that more kids will probably end up disfunctional.
You don’t understand economics. You think you do but you’re trapped in a Neo-Liberal mindset that is basically false in every situation because humanity is far more complicated than standard logical analysis. If Neo-Liberal Economics was true, then Apple phones wouldn’t sell and they would go out of business because they are so expensive and not dramatically better than phones 50-75% of their price, but because people are relatively easily manipulated and want to pretend they are higher up on the socio economic ladder than others, they end up paying $1,600 on a $900 phone that they pay $50 a month on their bill for, plus another $7 cause you know they’re gonna break theirs.
Meanwhile I pay $300 dollars for a year of phone service and paid $200 for my phone and it’s a pretty dang competent phone.
generally when people say something is simple, there is an astonishingly high likelihood that it is not, such as “take out the lungs, put the 5 heart stents in, put the lungs back in, grab the kidney tumor, and sew him up. simple.”
“Look. I agree with this article. It’s simply a matter of direct proportion. The more you work the more you earn. Simple.”
Actually that is the opposite of true. You might want to research ‘diminishing marginal returns’.
also, if you get a tumor, ulcer, divorce, wreck your car from exhaustion from working too much, or your kid turns into a violent destructive piece of crap because you were never around to raise it, incurring $$$$$ in bills, did you ‘earn’ more in balance.
Couldn’t disagree with this post more. I’m 54 and I’ve rarely worked more than 40 hours a week (only when there was a crisis that needed immediate attention). I have a master’s degree and am in the top 10% of wage earners in my geographical area of the country. Currently I’m in a senior-titled position and spend 40 hours a week in the office but only work around 30 of those hours (the rest I spend taking care of personal business, or writing responses to wrong-headed blog posts like this one).
Anyone who believes working longer hours is the only way to “get ahead” is a sucker who’s “drank the corporate Kool-Aid”. Just ask the CEO of Basecamp: https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/06/success/jason-fried-basecamp-work/
To clarify, you believe it is OK to complain about why someone is not getting ahead if they are working only 40 hours or less a week?
People are welcome to work less than 40 hours a week, that’s certainly what I do. But I think it’s irrational to complain if you’re not giving it everything you’ve got.
Your premise is flawed (Working 40+ hours per week = Getting ahead)
This implies a number of things that simply aren’t true:
1) If you work 40+ hours/week you WILL get ahead.
2) If you don’t work 40+ hours/week you WON’T get ahead.
3) Working 40+ hours/week is the ONLY way to get ahead.
4) If you aren’t getting ahead, it’s due solely to the hours you’re working.
Obviously there are lazy people out there who feel they are entitled to things without putting in the requisite effort (believe me, I’ve seen my fair share). My point is that just because someone complains about not getting ahead, blindly telling them to “work more hours!” is overly simplistic. It’s akin to a doctor telling any patient who complains that their symptoms aren’t getting better to “take more medicine!” Shouldn’t the symptoms be accurately and thoroughly diagnosed before a remedy is administered?
Like the old saying goes: “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different result.” Simply putting in more hours is rarely the only (or best) solution. Nothing “magical” happens when working hours 40 through 50 (or 60, or 70) that isn’t already happening when working hours 1 through 40.
That’s all I’m saying.
That was a beautiful and well educated reply, Roger. Plus the fact that we are all animals, not drones. We are not built to work as much as society would have us believe, as proven by the burnout and mental illnesses experienced by thousands of these workers, including myself. Look at Japan. They are very work oriented. So much so that they disregard human relationships, that would be built during off hours, as being important. The depression and suicide rates there are sky high. Building someone else’s dream and selling the precious hours of your life are not worth the meager wages they say you’re worth, friends.
Precisely my point. You reach a level of diminishing returns after putting in a certain number of hours. People are not horses that should be run all-out until they literally drop dead. 40 hours per week seems to be roughly the reasonable limit of human potential, at least over extended time periods. Work smarter people, not harder or longer.
You have a valid point Sam. Work more, earn more, of course, you have less time in the week for other things: friends, family, hobbies, etc. But if your goal is to make more money, sure that is one way to do it. Nothing new.
The reason why most people don’t neccessarily buy into this logic is because there is a gross disproportionality in wages in this country.
Let’s take your example, you worked in finance where your work probably received better than the average compensation: 50k and up. Try working 70+ hrs. As a farm laborer, construction worker, teacher, etc. There are a large number of jobs in the U.S. where your work is not compensated as well as other professions (<50k). My point, not everybody can work in finance or be a doctor or a lawyer and charge above average rates and earn above average incomes that would justify the extra hours of work or overtime put in every week.
If I’m getting paid $50 an hr. Sure I have no problem working overtime. If I’m making $7.50 an hr at the local burger joint. No thank you, I’m going to spend what precious little time I have left with family and friends. I would say that the vast majority share my sentiment.
Your article speaks only to a small segment of the working populace to whom more hours worked makes financial sense. You error in assumming that the majority of people can or would be willing to work more hours than they already do when financially it just doesn’t make much sense.
Have you done any manual labor? How many hours would you be willing to work in a week cleaning the carpets at a top financial brokerage for $12/hr?
As for the 6-figure salary janitor or elevator mechanic. That’s an anomoly, I wouldn’t assume that the vast majority of janitors have the opportunity to make those same amounts just working overtime. Some employers even cap hours in order to keep people from making overtime.
Thanks for your thoughtful response.
To answer your question, I have done a lot of low paying labor.
The first was working for McDonald’s and stuffing envelop for $4/hour. See: Three Bad Jobs That Can Eventually Make You Rich And Happy
The second was giving over 500 Uber rides in 2015 to see if I could make additional income. That was quite an experience. See: Spoiled Or Clueless? Try Working A Minimum Wage Job As An Adult
The final lower paying job is me coaching high school tennis from 2017 until now for three season. The pay comes out to around $25/hour, which is not bad. But that’s more like $10/hour if you live in a non coastal city.
But it’s really the reward of mentoring and teaching kids that keeps me going. See: When People Doubt You, Just Keep On Winning
And maybe spending so much time doing arduous work throughout my life makes me less sympathetic for folks who complain about not getting ahead while working less than 40 hours a week. You can work less than 40 hours a week no problem. Just don’t complain. Complaining is an excuse b/c there are plenty of abled bodied people who are doing more.
I am absolutely shocked that you consider $25 a “low wage job”. It has been an eye opening experience to read the perspective of someone so, so incredibly privileged. I do hope that you use your financial abundance and privilege to help others less fortunate than you. I mean this sincerely, I feel really sad for you and feel a lot of compassion for the person you are raising.
I said $25/hour is “not bad.” What are you projecting?
$25/hr = $50,000 a year, which is 40% BELOW the median wage in San Francisco.
It’s important not to be spoiled and entitled if you want to build wealth. Everybody has a different situation. You need to learn to understand different backgrounds.
See: https://www.financialsamurai.com/rich-spoiled-clueless-work-minimum-wage-job-at-least-twice/
I agree with April. Life isn’t so simple, we can’t all be wealthy Americans. Think beyond yourself and your human experience.
I lived through the nineties. Don’t drink the koolaid. The CEO and his buddies will slave-drive the salaried workers, then walk away with the fat stack after they gut or sell the company.
For most people there isn’t a fat money reward, just the opportunity to work tomorrow for some more chicken-scratch. Go pet your dog and hug your kids.
Playing golf, having lunch with clients shouldn’t be considered work. Try working a concrete labor job for 8 hours a day, or as a dairy loader in grocery, or any high intensity labor. Would send you and your golf buddies running for the hills. It’s all subjective, it’s all perspectives. Not everyone can get in to the position of leisure while working. That’s a luxury and a goal maybe to aspire to but you’re contradicting yourself by talking about people in france or these 20 somethings and saying they don’t work hard enough whenever you have a situation that in reality would be pretty impossible for EVERYONE to achieve. That’s not how capitalism works at least, it has never been that way!
How is working a full 40 hour work week slacking off? This is utter rubbish. It is sad that you’ve bought into the idea that if you aren’t spending every waking moment at work then you’re slacking off. There’s more to life than work!