Are There Really People Who Only Work 40 Hours A Week Or Less And Complain Why They Can’t Get Ahead?

Comments

1. L&L's Mom says

   March 3, 2016 at 8:34 pm

   This ridiculous article about people being wimps if they don’t work more than 50-70 hours per week is part of what’s wrong with America. And I totally agree with the people reminding the author of this “article” that many of us have children. Being a workaholic and having children is not a very good way of life for anyone. And even if a person doesn’t have the responsibility of parenting, a 70 hour/week will get you into the grave QUICKLY!

   Oh…and I love KDM’s post that points out that being a workaholic on a salaried job is just a dumb thing to do for so many reasons. There’s hard work, and then there’s just compulsion to over-work which is unhealthy.

   Reply

   • Becky says

     January 19, 2017 at 9:21 pm

     I think people are being very unrealistic about how a more financially egalitarian system works. It doesn’t result in everyone becoming richer and richer and having everything they want and everyone “getting ahead” so to speak. It tends to be a situation where people have their basic needs met and in general people have the security of knowing they are not going to have to worry about extreme poverty, but in return people in general accept that being particularly well off is not something that is likely to happen for very many people. In general, people do tend to work less if the system is working well, but overall wages are not overly high and the emphasis is on the collective well being of the group in general and not on the individual having a lot. Finland is, in my opinion a great example of this. They make it work. Hours of work are limited and they put the emphasis on quality of life, but their idea of quality of life doesn’t seem to be the same thing that a lot of people here are thinking of. People seem to think that this approach will lead to them pocketing all that rich people money and riding happily off into the sunset. What it really seems to lead to is an emphasis on quality of life being the lower working hours and just accepting a lower income and less material possessions in return. Rich people aren’t stealing your work from you if you don’t want to do the work. Less productivity does not lead to more money and you can’t expect someone else to do the extra work and then you get to pocket the money they have earned.

     Reply

2. Vistahermosa says

   February 20, 2016 at 8:20 am

   FS is 100% correct on his post. People can lie
   to others about y they r unsuccessful, but they shouldnt lie to themselves bc that only ensures continued failure. If u r unhappy with the amount of $ u make, u can change that. And if u decide not to, u have absolutely no one but urself to blame.

   Reply

3. Truth says

   January 30, 2016 at 10:22 am

   How very true.

   Reply

4. KDM says

   December 15, 2015 at 1:13 am

   LMAO! You use conversations you’ve overheard and comments people have left on your blog as “data points.” This shows how clearly ignorant and out of touch you are with reality while you drink martinis and play golf with your buddies and call that “work.” I shouldn’t validate this shlock with a response, but I feel it necessary for the misguided people who may come across this.
   Do you think people actually get paid to work extra hours in your typical salary job? Salary means you get paid for 40 hours regardless of how many hours you actually work. What type of delusional logic does one have to have to propose having people work extra hours for free? Especially given the fact that depending on the industry and region, many of these salary jobs are pay well below the market value and are packaged as “opportunities.” Basic math shows you that the more hours you work, the less money you are making. If a salaried employee makes $16 an hour for 40 hours, but actually works 50 they are actually making less than $12.80 an hour. If they work 60, as you suggest since you like to use hyperbole to make your points sound legitimate, they would make $10.67 an hour. At that rate you can just work for customer service instead and possibly even get paid more, no college degree and student loan debt required. If you factor that in, you’re losing even more money from debts you wouldn’t otherwise have and if you quantify the opportunity cost of time spent pursuing a degree. At one point I was working 60-70 hours working one full time and two part time jobs which didn’t require any special education. I actually got paid by the hour and it was worth my time. If I actually worked 40 hours in my salary job, all those extra hours I worked for free could have been invested in a part time job that actually paid me.
   Are you really naive enough to think that “hard work pays off” in this volatile economy? All it does is makes long, unpaid hours the norm… People working evenings or even coming in during the weekends, and eventually leads to burnout and health problems. People bust their ass trying to suck up and do the impossible and find themselves in the same position years later without any raise and being passed by promotion. But I’m sure you are an expert since you worked for McDonald’s once when you were a teen but got a six figure job straight out of college when you could actually do that since the economy was way different. Now you can stand on your pedestal in the clouds blaming economically-disadvantaged people for not working hard enough as a marketing technique to sell books because you happened to get lucky and make money when things were good, so that makes you an “expert” with your tips about being a “go getter” which are irrelevant in today’s society. Nice scam you have going on here.

   Reply

   • Financial Samurai says

     December 15, 2015 at 6:28 am

     Glad I made you laugh! Please laugh at these two articles too:
     Spoiled Or Clueless? Try Working A Minimum Wage Job As An Adult

     Income Profiles Of Financially Free People

     Reply

     • Fermi's Paradox says

       December 15, 2015 at 10:06 am

       It’s just easier for people to dismiss their situation by believing “the economy is rigged” or blame others, and of course spew vitriol at others to feel even better.

       Reply

     • Fermi's Paradox says

       December 15, 2015 at 10:28 am

       And as a reference to empirical evidence on how we are ALL better off in this generation (like every successive one) I like Brookings article that summarizes work done by the CBO on the matter. They are hardly right-leaning organizations and the article is very readable (I’ve done work in the field of economics, business, research, engineering).

       I’m sure you’ve seen it FS, it covers how we are ALL about 40% or more BETTER OFF in terms of real after-tax income than 30+ years ago. That means if we are no better off than our parents generation we have 40% more spending power. That does not consider how products and services, for the same real price, are across the board better and more functional (even food). The TV set example.

       https://www.brookings.edu/research/opinions/2014/01/06-income-gains-and-inequality-burtless

       Reply

5. Jason Dunn says

   December 3, 2015 at 8:15 pm

   The responses to this article have been…interesting. I understand the basic point you were trying to make Sam, but the tone-deaf way you tried to make it is why you’re getting hammered by so many commenters.

   Hey Sam. You share some really great stuff – I agree with a lot of what you post about financial strategies – but other times your inability to take a step back from your own life and perspective (an unmarried healthy male with no kids doing an information-based job who was able to save an incredible amount of his pay) and imagine things from a different perspective (a single parent with kids doing a manual labour job barely scraping by) really hurts your ability to communicate your message. People tune out.

   Life & finances may seem incredibly simple from your perspective, but not everyone is like you. Something to ponder before you write your next article like this one. :-)

   I *do* whole-heartedly support your desire to financially educate and help everyone you can!

   Reply

   • Financial Samurai says

     December 3, 2015 at 10:31 pm

     Here is some perspective:

     * Worked minimum wage jobs as a teenager.

     * Currently putting an extra 10 hours a week driving for Uber.

     * Faced plenty of racism growing up in the South, which has motivated me to become financial independent.

     * Faced a tsunami of failures recently, but I want to keep trying.

     * Grew up in developing countries for the first 13 years of my life (Zambia, Malaysia, Taiwan) and visited India and China multiple times for extended periods of time. I speak Mandarin, some Spanish, and English.

     * Parents were middle class government workers, where I lived in a town house and rode in a 10 year old car.

     Life is simple in America because I’ve seen the other side where it’s hard to get ahead based on hard work alone. For those who are clueless and spoiled, try working a minimum wage job as an adult like I’m currently doing. You will NO LONGER take for granted all the opportunities you have.

     Tell me Jason, why do you think I don’t have perspective? Do you really think I’m tone deaf? People are welcome to work 40 hours a week or less. Just don’t complain if they don’t feel like they are getting ahead.

     Please tell me about YOUR perspective.

     Reply

     • Jason Dunn says

       December 4, 2015 at 10:50 pm

       Thanks for sharing those links. I hadn’t read most of them, nor did I know the variety of places you grew up in. You certainly have more perspective on poverty and developing nations than I do.

       I particularly enjoyed your article on minimum wage jobs – I agree completely. I started out working at a local rec center selling slurpees and bags of chips when I was in my mid-teens, and my first “real” job was at age 18 working at Blockbuster video. Then I had an illustrious career at Office Depot making photocopies. I understand what it’s to work long hours for little pay. But I also come from a white, middle-class family that never had serious struggles – I never suffered. I understand that I was more fortunate than most in the world.

       I agree with what you wrote about opportunities, and the basic premise of “you have to work hard to get ahead; life will not hand you success”.

       But, again, based on the reactions you’re getting to this post, the *way* in which you tried to communicate your point was tone-deaf and that’s why this discussion is blowing up with angry posts. That was my only point.

       Reply

       • Financial Samurai says

         December 5, 2015 at 8:08 am

         I’m always happy to learn from others. Can you point out specific examples of tone deafness?

         I’m still waiting to hear your perspective instead of just judging me for tone deafness. Thanks

         Reply

         • Jason Dunn says

           December 5, 2015 at 7:12 pm

           Hey Sam, this is your Web site, so you obviously write what you want and call the shots. If you want to write things like this and elicit comments like there are on this page – maybe you want to create controversy to get more page views for all I know – that’s your call. I’m just a visitor trying to learn about finance. :-)

           Reply

           • Becky says

             January 19, 2017 at 7:51 am

             That wasn’t very helpful, why not just point out specific examples of tone deafness instead of getting hostile. It was a legitimate request. He made a point of saying if you are happy with your 40 hours, all is well, but if you aren’t then working harder is the answer. I think people are blowing up and upset because lots of people would rather not have to work harder to get ahead and they resent being told that that is the way to do it. Throwing in the single parent doing minimum wage is ridiculous, of course there are people who are struggling and in really difficult circumstances, but that isn’t who this article was aimed at, it was aimed at people who have more opportunity available to them, but would rather complain that they don’t want to work harder, but still want to be rewarded more. It just doesn’t work that way in most instances. If you are going to put in a mediocre effort, you are going to get a mediocre result. If you are going to choose to spend your time lounging, listening to music, slacking off, it is highly unlikely someone is going to pay you for that.

             Reply

             • Financial Samurai says

               January 19, 2017 at 7:56 am

               Thanks for your support Becky!

               I think you and others will like this follow on post: Abolish Welfare Mentality: A Janitor Makes $271,000 A Year, Why Can’t You?

               Reply

         • Austolous Lopithicus says

           June 22, 2016 at 12:48 am

           Sam,
           Very late response, but I’ll take your challenge on the pointing out what seems “tone deaf”.

           There’s a difference between wanting to get ahead by working like crazy so you can retire early and simply wanting to be able to work a normal 40 hour work week and live a reasonable middle class life and be able to retire in one’s 60s. Most of your data points seem to be people wanting to do the latter, and it’s something many third or fourth generation American’s have been able to do without working more than the traditional 40.

           When you address that group, you seem to treat them like they’re trying to do the former, which requires an entirely different mindset; one which immigrants who moved here and are used to hustling a little more just to get by are probably better at. Immigrants are much more likely to start their own businesses than 3rd or 4th generation Americans. Most Americans are “fat and happy” and don’t believe citizens in a wealthy nation should have to work like crazy just to stay afloat.

           Combine this with statements like your data point 3 on overtime, and the animosity gets clearer. That statement is entirely unsympathetic and tone deaf, and unless the worker is exempt, illegal on the federal level. If a business expects one to work more than 40 hours a week, it can pay a premium for those extra hours – and it should. If the employee is exempt the theory is the salary is already at a premium. That does not always play out in practice. There are plenty of retail managers that make way less per hour than their hourly employees because of how many hours they are forced to work.

           Points 1 and 2 seem a bit off too. On point 1 most people have obligations outside of work which can contribute to that exhaustion. Some are merely “frivolous” social duties, some are charity work, some are family. On point 2, yes, it is entirely normal in a typical office style job to be mentally exhausted by the end of a regular work day. I’ve worked both relatively manual jobs and office jobs, and I’m often more exhausted by the “easy” office job. Relatively manual being janitorial, hay bailing, some house cleaning, a little construction and landscaping. Heavy manual jobs – oil rigs, deep sea fishing, many farming jobs where there are tight quotas on minimum harvested and maximum spoilage I have not done and can’t comment on.

           I think there’s also resentment on the amount of work one has to do to get by in many places going up. Much of that is because there are simply more people trying to live in relatively the same amount of space in and around successful urban areas, so property values and rents have sky rocketed.

           That said, America right after WWII and during the cold war experienced maybe the height of the middle class way of life. Work your 40, afford your home and decent car. The grandparents who had been through the great depression and went through true economic hardships seemed to be doing all right for themselves if they made it through the war. Certainly their children did. There grandchildren? I think they started to see the first contractions on America’s relative ease.

           Offshoring and mass layoffs being the first pass beyond the rising housing prices. Corporations seeking all the benefits of a global economy while doing their best to make sure the citizens couldn’t benefit in kind. (Move the jobs to where labor is cheap, but prevent one from purchasing where the products are cheap.)

           Certainly the widening gap between the minimum, or even average employee’s wage, and that of upper management and the executive class and share holders doesn’t help. Nor do multi-billion dollar companies and individual multi-millionaires and billionaires, who helped designed the tax laws, using tax loop holes like the double Irish to, legally, avoid paying their fair share of the taxes, moving the tax burden from the wealthy – who already are making a much greater percentage of a company’s profits than they traditionally had – onto the middle class who already seem to be getting squeezed by higher costs of living, offshoring, etc.

           Finally, I think people approach things from what they are used to or what they know. Many people don’t know how to hustle in the fashion you’ve outlined. They never had to, nor did their parents, and while their grandparents might have that was often prior to WWII. They’ve never been exposed to it. Americans were sold that one could get A job in a trade, or go to school and have a career with one employer and do well. After a few generations were able to do this, it’s a bit of a shock to many that this is less and less true.

           Finally, the typically risk adverse employee often makes a terrible entrepreneur.

           Reply

           • Financial Samurai says

             June 22, 2016 at 7:04 am

             Thanks for your thoughts. At the end of the day, everything is rational and there is no point forcing beliefs on anybody. If you want to lose weight, you will eat less and exercise more. If you want more money, you will work longer hours, build multiple income streams, and invest etc.

             Despite growing up in third world countries, having middle class parents who drove 10 year old cars, and attending public school for HS and college, I’m probably more tone deaf than the average person b/c I’ve seen immense poverty growing up overseas for 14 years, and the things so many people have done to get themselves out of poverty. America is PARADISE in comparison. There is so much access and opportunity.

             I hope more Americans can speak a second language well and travel to see how good they have it.

             Check out: Spoiled Or Clueless? Try Working Minimum Wage Jobs As An Adult

             Living In An Expensive Country Can Make You Richer And More Empathetic

             Reply

       • Fermi's Pardox says

         December 5, 2015 at 2:10 pm

         I think the discussion is “blowing up with angry posts” because those people responding with anger sound like they simply don’t want to hear the truth/reality. That is where we are today, perhaps part of why FS has this site, because people simply do not take responsibility for the outcomes in their life anymore. They attribute their dissatisfaction and shortcomings to externalities… my job, my boss, the company that won’t pay me what “I” think I’m worth, capitalism, society in general, etc., etc.

         Reply

         • Hopemeister says

           November 22, 2016 at 8:17 am

           This.

           Reply

     • Terry Pratt says

       October 19, 2016 at 8:07 pm

       Jobs vary greatly in quality. It’s one thing to have a career which is challenging, fulfilling, and remunerative, and something else entirely to have a job which is menial, tedious, unfulfilling, and offers commensurate compensation.

       It is exasperating to see people with rewarding careers complain that people with menial jobs don’t work 60 hours a week. And NO, I have no desire to advance from burger flipper to manager of burger flippers. Can’t I have other options?

       Reply

       • Becky says

         January 19, 2017 at 8:03 am

         Why yes you can, but you’ll have to make more of an effort to get there. The writer wasn’t complaining that people don’t work more, he was pointing out that people want more without making the connection between hard work and sacrifice and getting more. I’m sure there are many people who are choosing to do the extra work and put in the extra hours who would choose to work less and get more if they could, but they aren’t unrealistic enough to think that that is something that will magically happen, so they look at the reality of the situation and choose to take advantage of their opportunities and get ahead that way, even though they would prefer that a pretty little fairy come knocking on their door and give them big bags of money and pots of gold.

         Reply

6. abominablesnowman says

   November 20, 2015 at 8:57 am

   Here in the UK, the average is 35-45 hours per week. I currently work 37 hours (08:00 – 16:30, with an hour unpaid lunch) and I find this exhausting. Other than when buying my house where I worked 60 hours over two jobs, I have never had a full time job that expected me to work over my prescribed hours. All of my work has been in corporate IT departments, some as a consultant so results counted more than hours.

   Reply

   • Financial Samurai says

     November 20, 2015 at 9:03 am

     Check out the post: Are You Too Proud To Be Rich? When Uber Drivers Make More Than Uber Employees. You’ll see how some side hustle has made people 2X – 20X the median income of their area.

     Reply

     • Jonathan Ringer says

       September 10, 2016 at 6:28 pm

       why do you need so much money? What’s with people’s obsession with money? You won’t own any of it in a few years. You’ll be worm food.

       Reply

       • Financial Samurai says

         September 10, 2016 at 6:50 pm

         True. I left the work place at 34 and have forsaken a lot of money. It’s been really nice to work less, pay less taxes, enjoy life more. How about you?

         Related:

         The Fear Of Running Out Of Money Is Completely Overblown
         What’s It Feel Like To Be Financially Independent

         Reply

7. Sara says

   October 15, 2015 at 5:47 am

   Go ahead and be my guest – work yourself to death.

   There are ways to earn more money without having to work your ass off every day. And every job is different. Performing one job for 5 hours can be just as detrimental on the psyche as 10 hours would be on another.

   Also, someone already said that it’s about quality not quantity – this is true. It’s not important how many hours you’ve put into something. It’s about the end result. I think the world is going in a different direction, and a positive one, from the “grand” 8-hour system.
   You should be a part of these changes, as your way of thinking is extremely unhealthy and outdated imo.

   Reply

   • Financial Samurai says

     October 15, 2015 at 9:44 am

     Why would I work myself to death? I put in extra hours b/c I wanted to get ahead. At the age of 34.5, I negotiated a severance package, and retired.

     It’s been 3.5 years now, and I’ve “worked” on my writing about 10 hours a week on average. It’s been great. Just got back from 4 weeks in Asia, and saw the DMZ near North Korea for the first time.

     If you want to get ahead, you have to put in the extra effort. If you are happy working 40 hours a week, and doing so for an extended period of time, fantastic! But I wanted to be free early.

     Related:
     What Does Early Retirement Feel Like?

     How Does It Feel To Be Financially Independent?

     Reply

   • Becky says

     January 19, 2017 at 7:33 am

     I don’t understand why people who don’t want to work harder get all uppity about people who want to work harder to get ahead. Do what you want to do. If you are satisfied with what you get for a forty hour week, good for you, it doesn’t make you superior to someone who wants to work more and it certainly doesn’t make you more realistic to think that you should work less and still flourish financially in the same way that someone who does choose to work longer and harder will. If you are satisfied with less, good for you. There are people, however, who do make the connection between hard work and sacrifice and success and their are even people who enjoy driving themselves. To each their own, make your choice and take the consequences. All the writer was saying is, don’t expect to sit around doing nothing and have the return be success. I’ve listened to enough unmotivated people lamenting how unappreciated they are while doing nothing to know that most of these people are not successful because they haven’t earned it, not because the world is being unfair to them.

     Reply

8. Paul says

   October 3, 2015 at 4:09 pm

   I don’t agree with this.

   The reason being: you’re only taking into account amount of time worked, not effectiveness of that work. If I’m extremely efficient, analytical and intelligent and put together a model that makes the company an extra million $ a year, all while working my contracted hours, of course I deserve, and will get a raise. Someone else might slave away 60 hours a week but not producing anything near the quality I am.

   It’s about the outcome, not merely grinding out hours.

   Reply

   • Financial Samurai says

     October 3, 2015 at 5:22 pm

     And if the outcome isn’t good enough, then what’s wrong with working harder to get there?

     If you’re getting ahead and working less than 40 hours, fantastic! And if you aren’t, then stop being delusional.

     Reply

9. Mike says

   September 24, 2015 at 7:39 am

   Here is to all of you….This country is based on a 40 hour work week. I work 70 with no overtime pay. There should be some value to life and which is why 40 should be the standard. I work 70 because TODAY that is what we need to do with 2 parents working to live comfortably. BUT WE SHOULDN’T HAVE TOO. That’s the point. It’s not that one person wants it more. The 40 hour work week was made so you can work hard and still enjoy life instead of work for life.
   In the 50’s and 60’s one middle class adult could go to work for 40 hours and get paid well, come home and be able to support a family and still be in the middle class and pay their bills. Now we live in a society where 2 people have to work and work 70 hours a week. No one is their to help raise the kids and a vacation is now labeled for the weak. So when you hear someone that doesn’t work as much of you instead of looking down on them look down on yourself. You will die with a little bit more money then them but you will die working and the memories you have built and the memories your family will remember of you is that you were not there for them when they needed you. That is what this country has become.

   Reply

   • Financial Samurai says

     September 24, 2015 at 7:42 am

     How much are you making working 70 hours a week now?

     I just figured out how someone can actually make $50 – $100 / hour driving for Uber. That’s $100,000 – $200,000 a year. Come check out this new post as I’m constantly trying to figure out ways to work smarter.

     Reply

     • Fermi's Paradox says

       September 29, 2015 at 5:49 pm

       FS: I just read your Data Points added to the original post. Very good. It’s amazing how people think things are worse now than in the past. There is so much data out there… we work shorter hours, we make more in real terms, the lowest among us have done considerably better in the last several decades (tax breaks, assistance programs, EITC, greater consumption, etc.)… and economic growth and innovation provides things the poorest among us would never have imagined (smart phones, HD flat screen TVs, amazing medical procedures, cars that do just about everything, amazing appliances, cheap food, cheap vacations, every form of entertainment at our fingertips, etc.). I will check out your newsletter, sure it’s very good.

       Reply

     • Lacey says

       January 16, 2016 at 6:51 am

       $100-200 an hour working for Uber? Maybe if you live in Manhattan or another major city…. Oh wait, many of us dont. That would be impossible where I live. Just goes to show that your assumptions on “getting ahead” are nowhere near as simple as you think for everyone. And you version of being “ahead” is just plain sad.

       I’m not even sure why I’m reading this article or how I found my way to it, but it’s interesting to see that people think this way. Why on earth would I want to work all these hours and get so little sleep and neglect my family? Why would ANYONE?

       I’m also 34. My husband and I are both high school teachers making $40,000. We love our careers. We go in at 6 and can leave by 2 if we want. That’s our 40 hours. Of course, there are many days when we stay much later than that just to stay caught up on grading, planning, etc. And during football/cheerleading season, we both work closer to 60 hours a week with the coaching duties we have (for only an extra $1500 each for the whole 5 month season). But on the days we do come home at 2, we have the entire afternoon/evening with our children, we take our boat out fishing until sunset, we go see movies, all in all we spend a lot of time together enjoying life. During our summers off, we used to travel to central and South American countries for a month of cheap traveling and trying to see the world. With the kids now though, we’ve gotten more into backpacking in the mountains, road trips, basically just showing our kids how to be happy and enjoy life – getting them out the house, away from the TV and computer, no phones, no video games, and most importantly, no daycare! Spring break is usually a week in the Florida keys and spending most days on the boat. What a way for our kids to grow up! Christmas break is 2.5 weeks off driving to see grandparents and doing whatever else we like. As far as hours go, teachers have the most flexibility of anyone. As far as pay, we’ll never make much more than we do now, no matter how many hours we put in or if we are the best teacher or coach in the entire district. So unless I want to quit a career that I love, none of your ideas apply to us. Or to many other people. Working harder does not always equal better pay and it’s ridiculous to think so.

       The best thing in life I ever did to “get ahead” was to convince my husband to become a teacher – to work LESS hours. And the amazing life – the experiences and the adventures that are only possible by our work schedule, is something very few families have. How more ‘ahead’ could I possibly get than this? And why anyone want the opposite? For more money?

       It’s really sad to see how backwards some people’s priorities are. Money, money, money. It really is what is wrong with America. If you’ve traveled around the world as much as you say you have, how have you not missed that?

       Reply

       • Financial Samurai says

         January 16, 2016 at 12:50 pm

         Hi Lacey,

         Did you actually read the Uber $100/hour article? It’s about leveraging your platform, technology, and the internet to make money for you so you don’t have to. I’m all about kicking back and working less too. That’s why I saved aggressively and built multiple income streams over the past 15 years so I didn’t have to work.

         My personal goal is to build $200,000 a year in passive income so I have the option of living anywhere in the world. Unfortunately, some of the most desirable places to live in the world are also the most expensive because everybody wants to live there.

         There are so many ways to make good money and be free. Check out Income Profiles Of Financially Free People to learn more. I retired at 34, and do not regret a moment of working hard the first 13 years out of college. It’s so worth it! Life is not about money, money, money at all. Life is all about living and being free.

         Can you imagine never having traveled around the world, not speaking a language, being restricted to do what you want because you haven’t saved enough or worked hard enough? Can you imagine working at a job you don’t like for the majority of life? I don’t want to just take 2.5 weeks off for Christmas break once a year. I want to take an infinite amount of time off. Don’t restrict yourself! If you’re happy making $40,000 that’s great. I wouldn’t judge someone just b/c they want to earn much more and be 100% free.

         But if you are unsatisfied with your life making only $40,000 a year and working only 40 hours a week as it seems, don’t project onto me, but do something about your situation. Know you can do more and be happier if you want to. Don’t settle!

         Best,

         Sam

         Reply

   • Lacey says

     January 16, 2016 at 6:56 am

     Very well said!

     Reply

10. Shasta Jones says

    September 1, 2015 at 5:17 pm

    Data Point #1. I wonder who cooks dinner when she gets home. I wonder who got the children off to school in the morning. I wonder who got them breakfast. I wonder who will help them with their homework that night. Who will drive them to Little League games and school plays–and watch the school plays. Oh, that’s right. She shouldn’t have children. She should be spending that time working–14 or 15 hours a day like in the good ‘ol days. While a person working 40 hours a week shouldn’t expect to get rich a person who works that much shouldn’t have to live in poverty.

    Reply

    • mbb_boy says

      February 21, 2016 at 10:50 am

      ……..and what if she actually doesn’t have kids? What then?

      Reply

      • Shasta Jones says

        July 24, 2016 at 6:49 pm

        She works 40 or more hours a week just like she does when she has children.

        Reply

      • Jj says

        November 3, 2016 at 7:51 am

        then i wonder who spends hours researching data points on our oppressed lives and writing blogs, books, and posts about them. i wonder who will spend the time THINKING about the predicaments we’re in, such as peak oil and the failing of various currencies, and male supremacy as it continues to massacre thousands on thousands of women and children (and some men as well). i wonder who will do all the things that those who are good little slaves don’t think about until it’s too late and we’ve “crashed” YET AGAIN.

        stop abusing and browbeating the workers of the world into putting in extra time. you don’t get more done in 8 hours than you do in 4. 4 is where productivity begins to noticeably wane.

        try science. review actual data. stop trying to sell people crap. wake up.

        Reply

    • Samantha Ueno says

      March 14, 2016 at 5:07 pm

      I just work early shift and another job 2 days a week while my oldest goes to preschool part-time. My husband works about 70 hours/week as a head chef and I work 35/week combined. and get most of the housework done.

      Reply

      • Shasta Jones says

        July 24, 2016 at 6:50 pm

        Yes, but you should be working 70 hours a week in addition to your duties as wife and mother.

        Reply

        • Becky says

          January 19, 2017 at 7:16 am

          The writer wasn’t saying everyone must work more hours, she was saying if you want to make large amounts of money, you should be prepared to work harder and make sacrifices to do so and if you would rather put in shorter hours and you choose not to drive yourself, you should make that choice with the understanding that it is highly likely you aren’t going to be as financially successful as someone who does.

          I think everyone knows people who are, let’s face it, lazy and unmotivated and seem to spend large amounts of time and energy moaning and groaning about how unfair it is that the world isn’t dropping huge bags of money in their laps and rewarding them for doing nothing, or they complain about how put upon they are because they are expected to work hard to get ahead when they don’t want to. That sort of sense of entitlement to be rewarded without doing the work and making the sacrifices is unrealistic and ridiculous. If you want a more relaxed life and to go through the motions and go home, go ahead do that, different people want different things, just don’t expect to make the big bucks if you make that choice because it isn’t highly likely to happen.

          Reply

    • kanakana says

      April 8, 2016 at 1:06 pm

      Come now, a 22 year old fresh grad already making babies, picking up kids and making dinner for the family? pish posh. Average female marriage age today is in the late 20s, having kids maybe late 20s early 30s if not later. You have a solid 6-12 years to make a killing. That way, by the time you get married you can start your own business and by being your own boss you can work your own hours/from home/whatever because you’ve built a solid reputation and client network and you can spend more time with family when you actually have a family.

      Reply

    • Sally says

      May 20, 2017 at 3:36 pm

      Both my parents used to work 70+ hours a week. They get up at 5 a.m., my mom would drop me off school at 7 am and my dad will pick me up around 6 pm and make supper. After I go to sleep at around 9 pm, my parents would either study or work for 2 more hours. On the weekend, we would have fun doing all sorts of activities, but they would still work in the morning and night. I was always the first kid to arrive at school and the last one to leave. I learned to use the public transportation and cook my own meal earlier than my peers. I never relied on parental help for homework, and I still get rewards every year as one of the top performing students in my school.

      Now I have my own children and I don’t plan to work for 40 hours or less. I am earning 6 figure salary as a young professional because my parents showed me first hand how working hard lead to a successful career. I want to be a role model for my kids too.

      Reply

      • Dave says

        June 1, 2017 at 7:33 am

        And i want to be a role model for my kids by actually being present in their lives. My parents made the tough financial decision of having her stay home with me. They know things would have been easier with 2 incomes, but the time and memories she had can never be taken away from her.

        Theres a difference betwern steong work ethic and workaholism. I think people who struggle to get pregnant appreciate their time more than those who pop kids out and throw cash at someone else to take care of them while they live their busy, oh so important lives.

        I hope you find your reality check, and find it sooner than on your death bed wishing you worked less and spent more tiime with your kids.

        Reply

11. Troy says

    August 8, 2015 at 5:33 pm

    I remember the boss I had at a college job who told me i’d never get anywhere working 40 hours a week. I moved to a metropolis, earned a medical degree, and travel the world while she still slaves away in a call center

    Reply

12. Amber says

    July 31, 2015 at 5:53 am

    I work 3 jobs:two are part time and one is full time. I usually work 60 to 75 hours a week and can still barely afford food. I don’t buy anything luxury and I never eat out. I make about 1.3k a month because of minimum wage. That’s just some over 13k $/year. I have tried my ass off looking for higher paying jobs in ny but no luck. Cost of living and taxes is what kills in ny, and I’m not in NYC either! I want to move but need money and a job ready for me wherever I go. I have tried my whole life to get ahead. I’m not someone who buys clothes and asks where my money goes. If I need a new shirt for work and I get one for 2 dollars at the thrift store. I am sick of the hole I can’t climb out of and have considered giving up many times. I even went through a suicidal state. Can you blame me? I work like a dog and feel like I’m a slave when I have no money left even after 13 hour shifts. There are people on welfare that are better off than me but I don’t have a child lol, so just because I don’t pop one out for money and I have to suffer. People who are fair workers really are more fucked over than many welfare in my opinion. I’m trying to give myself one more year to find something better. If there is nothing and I officially can’t do it anymore.

    Reply

13. Anonymous says

    May 3, 2015 at 2:36 pm

    @Poster, great article! I have been working 90/hours a week each day since 98′. I am still not the multi-millionaire I hoped to be, but I am well off. I can buy what I want, when I want for the most part. Point is, I hope these young kids listen to you. Working harder does get you further. And for those of you who are wondering why I am a multi-millionaire with all the hours I have worked, the answer is my family background. I came from less than nothing. By the time I got through cleaning up my mother’s debt, my father’s debt, my sister’s debt, bailing my brother out of jail, my aunt’s medicine, ect, ect there wasn’t much for me, that is, until now! Everyone in my family is squared away and I was finally able to travel out of the country last year. This year I will do the same.

    Alot of you people are spoiled! You don’t appreciate the fact that you could work hard and that you don’t have any ball & chains attached to you from bum family members. Work hard, stop complaining and maybe we’ll run into each other on the next trip I take to France. Cheers!

    Reply

14. PerryE says

    March 30, 2015 at 8:44 am

    Sorry, but I would not say you were mostly lucky! Maybe, the timing was right for you, but most people make their own luck. You are skilled and talented in the ways and means of finance! You DID work hard, and as you said, you got paid to learn to make more money and understand a system that is more difficult for the average person to understand…more than I think you realize. You deserve every cent you made. You did not rob widows and orphans, or sell drugs, or whatever. You EARNED it and you are letting others know it is certainly possible, and here are some ways. I get all that. I read your blog because it is one of many that opens my eyes to alternatives to the traditional working way of life. In one of them, I was pretty sure you said something like “I was surprised to find that very few jobs in (sic) programming pay $250,000 a year, where as in finance that is common pay” Some follow ups mentioned that Finance pays out more to their employees, at the cost of improving returns to shareholders” . It was inferred that you were successfully making $250k a year by the time you left. I apologize if that assumption was wrong.

    I was only pointing out that you may alienate some of your readership that would then miss many fine points you bring up. GenX and GenY all are trending to marry much later in life and postpone, sometimes, forever, having a family. Good or bad, that is not my place to say, but financially, if you don’t mind hard work, have confidence, and intelligence, and a degreed education, it greatly increases your chances of it being a winning philosophy. So looking at statistics, and drawing conclusions about the spendthrift of Americans (and don’t get me wrong, Americans, in general, are HORRIBLE planning for their financial future) is misleading, and loaded with caveats. Not everyone can be in the stock market trade, or live in NYC, or SanFran. If they did, then the opportunities would not be there either. When you are single and young, THAT is the time to take the chances that if they go wrong, will not affect your spouse, or children, and from which you have the time to recover.

    A small example: suppose your life was identical to what you describe, except you were hopelessly in love with a long term soulmate, got married, and had a kid in 2000? Would you be ABLE to put in those same hours, live like you did, and saved like you saved? Of course not. If you did, your may have had to get divorced, as your wife was no longer happy living as you wanted, and you’d STILL be paying a large child support and maybe alimony. Plus less time and opportunity to move for work, because now you don’t want to be too far from your only lovely child, etc, etc, etc.

    That’s what I meant by my previous comments. ONE decision can totally eliminate, or make hugely unlikely, an otherwise perfect financial plan. I KNOW you are only expressing your personal experience, passing valuable knowledge to others that they would have a hard time learning on their own, etc, etc. I commend you for it. But like the flak you took on saying “only buy a car that costs 10% of your income”, your musings will be far more accepted if you empathize with the far larger percentage of people that think its absurd to only buy a $15k car (and only ONE!, most people DON’T live in a city and aren’t single, need more than one) if you make 150K a year. Financially sound? Of course it is! But to many people, the whole point of having money is a balancing act of enjoyment now and later. It’s the balancing that is the hard part. $200k income for life? Love to have it! Don’t really need it, in my current life, but I’ll have close to 80% or better, when I decide to retire. It’ll happen almost in spite of myself, because I already followed many of your good points, before you were born.

    I am a successful, hardworking engineer. Tops in my field. My work (with the team that I direct, and work with) directly improves the lives of hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people in the state where I live, health wise and financially. My assets are low 7 figures. But I am also 58 years old, so for the exact same period in my life that you were starting out, the opportunities that you took advantage of did not exist. A few of my close college friends are already retired, with high 7 figure assets, and planned guaranteed incomes that exceed anything I will ever make. They all would also tell you, that none of them, even though they have engineering degrees, are engineers anymore. They all took the risk and leap of faith that an MBA, and the business side, often finance, were the smarter path, and are far more financially successful than I am as a result. They had a knack for that, that I do not.

    Reply

15. PerryE says

    March 29, 2015 at 6:33 am

    I’m leaving this comment as a general one for most of FSs bogs. I’m not trying to be insulting or condescending, as I find much of your factional information quite useful. But I have that annoying trait of wanting to put in my $.02 when I read things on blogs that bother me. It’s annoying, I know!
    1. Your constant reference to “working your butt off for 13 years 60-80hrs a week is not only annoying but a major deterrent to revisiting your site. You did it when you were (and in many readers minds, still) young and single and making $250K+ a year, with the single mindset of making as much money as possible to save as much as possible. For by far, most people, this is NOT an option! If you only have to answer to yourself, and CAN work those hours, and reap substantial rewards for the workload, then why wouldn’t you. Its a matter of opportunity and priority, that’s all. 13 years is not impressive at all, and IS insulting to many people who work many more years because they don’t have the opportunity or aptitude to do what you did. Additionally, as you’ve admitted, it was pure luck to land that job at GS at your age, with your lack of experience, again, not likely to happen to by far, to the majority. The VAST VAST majority of people graduating from college will NEVER have the opportunity handed to them to earn that kind of money, or even the future hope to earn that in a few years, nor do normal 21 year olds have a fascination and understanding of the stock market. You started in an industry that has the potential to earn huge money, if you are good, talented, lucky, and can work with that mindset. The vast majority will not, and can not live in a major city, be the kind of person to work in that type of finance job, not even KNOW that type of job is an option and that THAT kind of money was even possible, assuming they even have the knowledge, aptitude or discipline to even consider that job in the first place.

    2. You also mention many times how you saved more than 50% of your take home pay and invested wisely to get ahead. This is great advice, and a nice point, but again who WOULDN”T be able to do that if they were young and single and making that kind of money? Assuming a net total tax of 35%, then your take home would have been $162.5k year ( I realize you didn’t make this your first year, etc, etc), but bottom line is a young kid out of college can EASILY live on $81k take home a year, even in NYC. Do it making a decent $75k gross a year, and I’d be impressed. You say this to make a point, but it is a shallow, hollow one. Similar to your, “obviously you must max out your 401k…” where you assume that is even possible.

    Reply

    • Financial Samurai says

      March 29, 2015 at 8:34 am

      Thanks for your comment.

      1) There are over 1,000 articles on Financial Samurai. Yes, hard work is a constant theme, especially in this article. And it is true that some people don’t have as much option to work hard, but hard work requires no skill.

      2) I agree. My opportunity was handed to me, and most of my accomplishments were mostly due to luck. I did get into other firms besides GS, but those were lucky breaks too.

      3) My base salary was $40,000 living in Manhattan in 1999, and rose to $55,000 in 2000 as all 2nd year analysts got a big bump b/c year 2000 first year analysts were coming in at $50K. I lived in a studio with a HS buddy of mine and then a studio with windowless side room w/ a colleague. Not sure where you are getting $162,500 a year in income? That would be sweet! On my income, I did max out my 401k. Manhattan was still crazy expensive there.

      I wrote this post for you recently: Sweet Dreams Of Becoming A Millionaire Again.

      Your comment is what helps keep me going. So I thank you for reminding me that I’m mostly lucky, and that I shouldn’t take my luck for granted. Financial Samurai’s growth is also very fortuitous. I will continue to put in the hours today in 2015 and beyond, despite my other obligations.

      Reply

16. James says

    March 6, 2015 at 11:13 am

    I’m going to take this opportunity to brag.

    I have a 40 hour/week job that pays me around 3x my living expenses, net.

    I actually stay in the office 35-40 hours a week depending on how much work I have.

    I functionally work 30-35 hours.

    Furthermore, I’m one of my employer’s more profitable employees, because I have invested the time it takes in learning how to do my job effectively, and I’m always expanding my skillset.

    People just don’t think or plan enough. There are immense opportunities to add large amounts of value for only moderate amounts of work out there. You just have to acquaint yourself with them.

    Reply

17. WEbx says

    February 22, 2015 at 2:07 pm

    The US is known for being overworked as it is. It’s supposed to be one of the leading causes for heart problems, obesity, depression, and violence.

    Yet here you seem to think sleeping is a waste of another 8 possible work hours. Who needs eating? Let’s get fed intravenously so we don’t waste time that could be put to work. Stand over a portable toilet so you don’t have to waste precious seconds taking a dump.

    Anatomically-modern humans have been around for 200,000 years. Until agriculture, you didn’t need more than 4 hours of working per day to put food on the table. That means we have only been working this hard for 5% of our time on earth.

    People have families, kids, pets, friends, an actual existing -LIFE- outside of work. In the Netherlands, it is normal for men to work 4 10-hour days and have 3-day weekends for hobbies and kids, and these are the folks who INVENTED the stock market.

    The Germans have some of the most vacation days in the world. Are you one to call the Germans a bunch of lazy whiners?

    This article also flies in the face of workplace research. At Google, for instance, workers are required not to work on company projects on Fridays, but instead create their own projects. Some 80% of the company’s innovation comes from this single day of freedom. It has also been found that out of 8 hours of work, only a couple of those are really efficient, and efficiency plummits the more hours you tack on.

    People think their best and innovate their best when they can have a variety of experiences. This means *gasp* having parts of your life that you AREN’T working.

    You know who DOES work as long as you are implying? Chinese sweatshop workers. THERE is your “image of success”.

    Meanwhile, politicians work only about half the year and make six-figures base salary.

    Reply

    • Financial Samurai says

      February 22, 2015 at 3:53 pm

      Ah the Google 80% myth. Don’t you know Marisa Mayer debunked it, and it’s really the 120% rule? https://www.businessinsider.com/mayer-google-20-time-does-not-exist-2015-1

      I agree with you on kicking back like the Europeans, despite all their debt problems. https://www.financialsamurai.com/ive-seen-americas-future-and-it-looks-bright/

      America is fine. Just don’t complain if you are only working 40 hours a week. Relax and enjoy life!

      Reply

    • Fermi's Paradox says

      February 22, 2015 at 6:33 pm

      And you lost all credibility WEbx when you stated: “Until agriculture, you didn’t need more than 4 hours of working per day to put food on the table.”

      Where did you possibly conjure that up and how could have believed it!

      Until modern times most people throughout civilization devoted almost all waking moments trying to ensure their survival, even then they had short life spans by comparison.

      There is nothing new about FS’ propositions, people have been doing it forever. Time available for leisure for most of the modern world continues to grow. It is your choice what you do with your time.

      I’ve spent time in Holland, it’s not the utopia you make it out to be. To blame and criticize others for working hard to get ahead is ridiculous.

      Reply

      • Rama says

        February 22, 2015 at 6:46 pm

        Time available for leisure continues to grow? I’m going to have to disagree with that. Our “leisure time” is not really leisure time. In today’s age of smartphones and digital communication it means you are always connected to your work or your job. There really is no time to unplug. It’s not really leisure time if you are still sending emails and dealing with work communications just because you are not in the office.

        Personally I don’t mind working more than 40 hours a week. It’s not the hours. It’s having a clear separation between work and non work time.

        Reply

        • Fermi's Paradox says

          February 23, 2015 at 9:29 am

          Rama, it may not hold true for your occupation, but in general it does. You may want to change your occupation.

          But even your example, smartphones and communication devices enable people to go home and not have to stay at the office in order to get work done. Whether on balance that means people are putting in more hours or not is debatable and likely depends on your occupation. Hence the explosion of work-at-home, which is desired far more by employees than employers which suggests employers perceive they get more from employees if they stay at the office.

          The aspect of not being able to “unplug” is real. Whether that creates a net increase in stress or other discomfort is likely up for debate. Being trapped at the office (when we had no digital devices) was not fun and has it’s own stress.

          Reply

18. LC says

    February 21, 2015 at 9:26 pm

    The best things in life aren’t things, so unless you really love your job, and do not have other interests that require long hours of practice, and have others do your home and car repairs, more than 40 hours will not give you much time for sleeping or eating.

    I guess it’s a matter of priorities, and although accumulating wealth can give one freedom, at this stage in my life I value time much more than “stuff.”
    Eight hours per day is quite a bit of time to spend even on the things I love to do. Some people really love day trading, business, or medical research, some love music, acting, or philosophy. Here’s a bit of inspiration for everyone:

    Reply

19. Greg says

    February 2, 2015 at 9:37 am

    Yes, this article is very snobby and painful to read. Worst part is by the end, even if I were motivated to earn more money and work more hours, there is no direction or suggestion on what I should do. I have a good picture of my finances already and I do not get paid overtime at my job. So after the 40 hours at work, what am I supposed to do? There is no follow-up…

    Reply

    • Financial Samurai says

      February 2, 2015 at 10:07 am

      Is it really snobby to question the logic of working longer and harder if you want to get farther?

      There are a lot of things one can do:

      1) Work on your X Factor before going to work or after work after putting in your 40 hours. My X Factor was starting this site, and spending 25-30 hours a week for 3 years before allowing me to negotiate a severance to do this full-time.

      2) Here are a list of sectors and jobs that pay six figures.

      3) Rethink your company loyalty. It cost me a fortune for not continuously looking for new opportunities.

      4) Spend an hour reading my Investments and Career categories.

      5) Track your net worth by leveraging the internet. Once you know where your money is going and coming in, you can better optimize your wealth. You’ll also have more confidence in taking calculated risks with your career.

      I hope these five action points will help you.

      Sam

      Reply

      • Greg says

        February 3, 2015 at 9:36 am

        I will do these. As I stated, I already have a picture of my net worth, depsite its poor state at 25. But I can work on the rest of these points. I do also work in a six-figure career but am still young, so I have not grown to that salary yet.

        Reply

20. $iddhartha says

    February 1, 2015 at 2:51 am

    Working much more than 40 hours a week can be much more difficult than implied if you are not single and fresh out of college. Some counterpoints:

    1) Having a working spouse: someone’s got to take care of the kiddos when they aren’t at school/daycare particularly taking time off when they’re ill. (which happens a lot!)
    2) Kids: just kids in general… some people can’t reconcile working beaucoup hours with “doing right by their kids.”
    3) Working nights: Sometimes you have no choice but to break up your sleep into multiple chunks in a day. Trust me this takes up more time than sleeping all at once. Too many times I lay restless trying to “force” myself to drink in some much needed sleep.
    4) Sleep: Am I the only one who gets sick way more frequently if I’m not getting enough? And by enough I only mean 6-7 hours per day.
    5) Irregular hours: I had big plans to work a second job when I was freshly beginning my job. But, I have a job where the hours vary on a day to day basis. Not sure when I will go in until less than six hours ahead of time. Sometimes unannounced I can be expected to stay 5 hours over. Also there’s days where I’ll be off 5 hours then working then off 5 hours then working all in the same day.
    6) Company has cut back on overtime: If you work late one day, you better cut hours later in the week or you’ll have a meeting with multiple mid-level manager in your future.
    7) Overtime exempt: Your company pays and treats you like an hourly employee for most intents and purposes–but guess what–you’re considered salary. This seems to be the ultimate trump card for big employers lately (unfortunately). So sure, go ahead and work an extra twenty hours, it’s not like your employer has to pay you for it.

    Also switching jobs with the sole intent of trying to work more than 40 hours per week to get ahead can be difficult to pull off for a professional currently employed in a high-paying job.

    Reply

    • Financial Samurai says

      February 1, 2015 at 3:18 am

      A great list of reasons why working more than 40 hours is difficult.

      What about waking up early, like 5am to work a couple hours before others wake up? I know you said you need sleep, but we can sleep forever once we’re dead as someone once said.

      How about staying up after the kids go to bed to work on your passion project?

      Your excuses are fine, and there is no need to work 40 or more hours a week. But if you want to get ahead and limit your hours, then it doesn’t make sense.

      Reply

      • $iddhartha says

        February 1, 2015 at 9:41 am

        I like a lot of your points actually, and I agree that working more hours is undoubtedly one of the best ways to help a person get ahead. I just think unfortunately some people would actually have to take a pay cut in order to switch careers in a way that enabled more hours.

        Admittedly, one thing I could do is start my own part-time business if I want to work more hours and increase income. By doing so, I would only be beholden to myself for additional hours worked.

        Reply

      • From the future says

        November 28, 2018 at 9:28 pm

        As someone whose never had reliable employment they are not excuses but the truth. I dont make enough money to quit my job. My hours also vary (which means its impossible to find a second job).
        Also I cant start a side hustle because of money going to other bills. Also my sleep pattern is also erratic because of the scheduling conflicts. This leads to serious issues. Also the universe (i.e. the natural world) doesnt work this way at all.

        Successful hard working people are forced to partake in unhealthy habits to get ahead or are extremely lucky and if one thing in their life didnt line up (enabling spouse/girlfriend/landlord/or just an enabling person, credit cards, employer turning a blind eye to their bad behavior, or straight blind luck or environment or others not viewing them as a threat so no sabotage or people giving then free shit or rides places) theyd never be successful.

        You are contributing success to the things you can control, but it often times (99.999%) comes from things you do not control. This is a bitter truth to swallow for most of the success bloggers. Theres actually cold hard science on this. Its probably also why the best and brightest of our species never amount to much (i.e. our modern society is anathema to true success). And successful people parroting platitudes and cliches are not our best and brightest.

        Reply

21. RC says

    January 16, 2015 at 8:08 pm

    I make decent money, but I consistently work well over 50 hours a week very week, often 65+. I am required to work every other saturday (which means most weeks I work 6+ days). I take 20 minutes for lunch, and work at a frantic pace all day long. The problem with efficiency, is it requires the managers/owners to invest in staff and software. When 1 person has to handle all the bookkeeping, payroll, filing taxes and reports, and take dozens of random calls every day, it’s impossible to be efficient. Larger companies can specialize tasks, but not so with many smaller companies with limited staff. And I can’t create lean processes, because every 5 minutes I’m interrupted to handle another unrelated issue. Those who work 40 hours a week and go play golf with clients or take an hour or two to workout at lunch are plain lucky. You know in this economy, you take the job that is available when you need a job. This year, I’ve taken one lunch that was over 30 minutes long–and that was to meet with my CPA firm. It’s a luck of the draw whether you’ll get in with a great company…or get stuck with a company that is more than happy wringing you for all your worth.

    Reply

    • Financial Samurai says

      January 17, 2015 at 6:29 am

      That’s a lot of hours for someone over 65 RC. Is it possible to find a new gig or retire with a pension or severance? I’m glad you’re not complaining!

      Reply

      • Fermi's Paradox says

        January 17, 2015 at 5:21 pm

        It doesn’t sound like he’s over 65, but he sometimes has to work over 65 hours/week. I could be missing something.

        Reply

    • Fermi's Paradox says

      January 17, 2015 at 5:19 pm

      Getting in with a great company that satisfies you and pays well is most definitely NOT the luck of the draw. That’s the whole point.

      Reply

22. Gary says

    January 9, 2015 at 5:46 pm

    You don’t believe in or would pay overtime and you tell people “…I explain that anybody who really wants to be in the Top 50% of income earners ($33,000) can do so if they wanted to. All you have to do is work 63 hours a week at $10 to make $33,000 a year!”

    You’re a compassionate guy, aren’t you? You’re probably in favor of everyone getting a “salary” so that you could work them like a horse and circumvent the country’s labor laws.

    You may as well tell your adherents, “Hey, pay them $3.78 per hour and tell them they can make $33K per year easy. Just work 8736 hours. That’s only 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, you wimp.” Bet you’d like that.

    Reply

    • Fermi's Paradox says

      January 16, 2015 at 10:40 am

      Gary, yours is just a nonsensical attack on FS. He is simply illustrating the even working in the lowest skill and pay jobs in our economy you can fairly easily break the 50% mark. Moreover, it is up to the individual to gain skills and pursue work in areas that are in demand and as a result, pay well. It’s not the role of the “economy” to fashion itself in a way to pay workers a set minimum wage for whatever they want to do. The economy will crater. Supply and demand is how the economy most effectively allocates resources to the most productive ends. Pay attention to what the economy demands (in terms of jobs), adjust to it and you will do well (unless of course you are otherwise mentally or physically handicapped).

      Reply

23. David says

    December 30, 2014 at 5:33 am

    I think FS has a career that was based on results. It was competitive. I can see how it is with my friends in the banking industry, the more money they bring in the more money they make. It’s an industry where what you put into it has a dramatic affect on the rewards.

    Most industries are not like that of course. In a top law firm the highest paid lawyer may make 10x the lowest paid lawyer. I wish that were the case in my industry. I’m an engineer and the top engineer may make 2x the lowest paid engineers and how hard you work or how long you work doesn’t translate to getting ahead.

    You know what does, luck. You have to be lucky enough to have opportunity dropped in your lap, then be talented enough to come through.

    I work very hard just because it’s in my nature, it’s the way I’m wired. I’m now working in my third company and was lucky enough to have that opportunity put in front of me. I didn’t deserve it more than anyone else, just right place and right time. A couple people were in it before me but were not talented enough to get the job done, and I was. I got on the ground floor of a new flagship product that was successful and now I’m among the highest paid engineers in the company. Sadly I could complain that I’m not making millions but that’s not in my nature either. I’m doing what I was meant to do in life.

    But I do recognize that a more talented engineer in the company can work 24hrs a day 7 days a week and he still may not get ahead. Why, because being talented and working hard is not directly correlated to getting ahead. At least not in most industries. In the same way a super hardworking high school teacher does not have a path to billionaire status working hard at teaching. You could argue that he can do something else. But the statement that working hard/long will translate to financial success for everybody is going to fail the universality test.
    Because we wouldn’t have people doing the jobs that society requires for everybody to succeed.

    So I’m going to say as a person that’s about as successful as I could possibly get at what I do (mostly because I was lucky, my talent is useless without that rare opportunity), that I don’t blame people who complain that they can’t get ahead. Because for most, they can’t get ahead no matter what they do. Society simply doesn’t work that way. Their simply isn’t a path for everybody to get ahead. Anybody can, but everybody can’t no matter what. I understand what FS is saying, but I think some deserve a little complaining if they want in my opinion.

    Reply

    • Financial Samurai says

      December 30, 2014 at 6:46 am

      Fair points. I’ve noticed not every is as consistently Gung hi outside of finance and strategy consulting jobs.

      Complaining for a bit is fine. But not doing something about it after a while is annoying.

      See: https://www.financialsamurai.com/how-much-do-i-have-to-make-as-an-entrepreneur-or-contractor-to-replace-my-day-job-income/

      Reply

      • Dave says

        December 30, 2014 at 5:10 pm

        thanks for the link, it does give me a different perspective. It’s so easy to hear what the entrepreneur makes and directly compare to my own earnings being an employee.
        A direct comparison isn’t a fair comparison and most worker bees don’t realize this.

        Reply

24. Rama says

    December 29, 2014 at 11:19 pm

    I understand what your saying about being productive but you mentioned in your article that you weren’t skilled enough to get your work done in 40 hours a week or less. The claim could be made that if you double your skill and efficiency that you could get done in 40 hours a week what used to take 80 hours.

    As to the woman on the bus complaining in the bus, you can’t make a straight hours to hours comparison. If her work is more physically demanding than yours than 40 hours of work might take more out of her than 80 hours in your field does.

    You say people complain that they can’t get ahead while they only work 40 hours or less a week. Fair enough but then I can say the same about people who complain they they don’t have time for dating, spending time with friends and family etc. while they work 80 hours a week ( I am not saying that you do but I have heard this as well)

    Reply

25. NoJobBob says

    December 11, 2014 at 9:54 pm

    The society we live in has turned people into one of two things: miserable cogs in a machine, or viscous animals clawing their way into the machine’s control room.

    I choose to avoid the machine altogether. It doesn’t bring people happiness. Not really. To the cogs it brings a sense of security, and to the animals it brings a sense of carnal delight at having asserted themselves over their inferiors, but neither will ever be content. It is against the nature of the machine to be content.

    Reply

26. des999 says

    December 3, 2014 at 7:45 am

    I must be spoiled, I work in IT, and have for the last 14 years, and I rarely work more than 40 hours a week. I make $96,000 / year. I am oncall one week a month (calls range from none to 3). I work hard while I am at work, but honestly I could do my job most weeks in 30 hours. I find it ridiculous that corporate america wants us to be here 40 hours, when, if you are efficient, most of us could get our jobs done in less hours.

    I know for me, I see wasted hours every day on the job. I see 1.5+ lunches, chatting constantly, meetings with much wasted time. All in the name of putting in the hours. I feel strongly in doing a good job and working hard. If it requires 50 or 60 hours then by all means. But I don’t agree that we should just be there to be there.

    I guess everyones personality is different, and everyone thrives in different settings, but me personally, I’d rather have my own personal time to decide when to work, as long as the work gets done.

    I would shoot myself if I had to work 60 hrs a week, unless someone paid me 200,000+ /year, no way I’d do it.

    Reply

    • Financial Samurai says

      December 3, 2014 at 7:51 am

      If you are happy with making $96,000 a year, that is all that matters.

      I wanted to make $500,000 a year, and knew I had to work harder if I wanted to achieve that figure. The point is if I wanted $500k/year and wasnt Willing to work that much, then I would be totally stupid and irrational.

      Reply

      • des999 says

        December 3, 2014 at 9:18 am

        I gotcha, I didn’t realize we were talking about that kind of monies :)

        It is my experience that most people that make that kind of money love working and aren’t looking to retire early. I assume you might be more in the minority, but I may be wrong.

        I have thought recently of taking on a job with more hours, more stress, but for much more money. But the only reason would be to bank as much as possible for as long as I could stand it. And then go do something more fun like financial advisor, or teacher, or something in which my salary didn’t matter as I have a ton of cash in the bank.

        Reply

27. Shasta Jones says

    November 25, 2014 at 9:16 pm

    I work 40 hours a week. I spend 10 hours a week commuting. I suppose the work I do at home and don’t get a paycheck for is not work. At least by preparing my meals I don’t have to pay someone else to make my meals for me and I don’t get taxed on the money either. It’s also hard enough to find a job that will give me 40 hours a week.

    Reply

28. Josh says

    November 21, 2014 at 4:42 pm

    Why trade 5 days for 2, your whole life, then retire old and senile…
    Because that’s life?

    Pretty pessimistic crappy answer if you ask me.

    If we built this fast paced and rapidly expanding world, for anything at all… It’s not to drone away over half of our waking life, in some environment that’s not particularly enjoyable to exist in. It’s the exact opposite.

    We have a right, as conscious and inquisitive living things, to ask that question. Is it really worth it? Especially if our psyche isn’t necessarily any better off.

    When are we going to see a collective increase in happiness, coinciding with shorter working hours, not longer ones?

    Isn’t that what all this technological advancement is actually for?

    Reply

    • Fermi's Paradox says

      November 22, 2014 at 2:58 pm

      Josh, it’s indeed very sad that you see life that way. Most who work hard see it as the opposite. They get a lot of reward (besides money) from their hard work and commitment, particularly a commitment to themselves and their families. But you are free to choose either way.

      And it is indeed scary that you somehow see “a collective increase in happiness” as apparently taking precedence over individuals seeking happiness on their own. E.g., some working longer hours if they like, others not so much. It sounds like you would sacrifice the rights of individuals to seek their own happiness on the alter of “collective” will.

      Reply

29. Andreea Pescar says

    November 10, 2014 at 10:51 am

    You know what I don’t understand, as a student still, waiting to enter the workforce: why on earth would I want to work more than 40 hours a week when life is so short and I want to do so many things (hobbies is one of them, time with family and friends)? I mean I would understand if it would be an important cause that would make humanity prosper in a great way. That would make sense to me. But waiting till your retired to do things you love: that’s actually sad to me. If the workload is so big, why don’t they hire more people and share responsability or take shifts ? I bet there are dozen who are looking for a job. I guess if you are money driven, then working 90 hours a week would benefit you. I, instead, think my time is more important, cause hey, we aren’t here forever and I plan to be happy, and I plan that my family would be happy too. I plan to have money enough to sustain me. I don’t want to be rich and have some huge baroque decorated house to show for or a brand new Ferrari. Maybe when children will come, my perspective will shift, and money-making will become more important to me. But overall, I think time is more important than money.

    Reply

    • Financial Samurai says

      November 10, 2014 at 11:27 am

      Exactly. Enjoy life and don’t worry about the money and hard work. Life is good!

      Reply

    • Fermi's Paradox says

      November 10, 2014 at 12:07 pm

      That’s great. Although it’s not really fair to characterize those who work many more than 40 hours in their career as “money driven.” I have know many, many people who work like FS describes, they do it because they love it, not because they are chasing the dollar. It’s a bit like saying professional athletes do it for the money. People I have met that don’t like their job or career can never seem to muster up the effort to work hard. And when you work more you do in fact benefit society as a whole, not the other way around. It is simple economics. Imagine what our economy would like if the “standard” wasn’t 40 hours, but something like 4 hours. We’d be back to living in caves.

      Reply

      • Andreea Pescar says

        November 10, 2014 at 11:40 pm

        Yes, I get you. I guess that if you like what you do, working more hours isn’t such a big deal. I mean, some say that what they are doing are their life. I haven’t experienced that yet. Sorry for generalizing – some people are money driven, and that’s not such a bad thing if that’s what you want and plan to do something meaningfull with it.

        Reply

        • Fermi's Paradox says

          November 11, 2014 at 6:27 pm

          Well, I guess “meaningful” is in the eyes of the beholder. If they wanted to take the money and burn it, it’s up to them, they earned it, it’s their property.

          Reply

          • Andreea Pescar says

            November 12, 2014 at 12:18 am

            :))) right.

            Reply

          • Troll says

            November 14, 2014 at 12:57 pm

            Actually, they can’t burn it. :P

            C&P off of NBC: Specifically, this is a violation of Title 18, Section 333 of the United States Code, which says that “whoever mutilates, cuts, disfigures, perforates, unites or cements together, or does any other thing to any bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence of debt issued by any national banking association, Federal Reserve Bank, or Federal Reserve System, with intent to render such item(s) unfit to be reissued, shall be fined not more than $100 or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.”

            Reply

            • Fermi's Paradox says

              November 15, 2014 at 6:50 pm

              Troll, of course. Just another example of overreach by government on the individual.

              Reply

        • Felix Money says

          February 10, 2015 at 12:16 am

          So if you love what you do, you’ll want to put as many hours into it as you can.

          If you don’t like what you do, why would you work the minimum necessary because ‘life is too short’? That will be a sure way for you to stay in the job you dislike forever. I don’t like what I do, so I figured, if I only do the 40h, I will always do the same job. So, outside of my 40h/week, I try to do a little extra, so I can transition from my current situation to something better. If I can make more > save more > invest more = early retirement from a job I don’t like.

          Reply

          • Fermi's Paradox says

            February 10, 2015 at 2:49 pm

            Felix Money: That is precisely what people do to not only get ahead, but also achieve fulfillment in life. The best advice in this post!

            Reply

30. karma says

    November 5, 2014 at 3:38 am

    Work, work, work, know the right people and earn, earn, earn for wads of money…..

    This is all well and good if that is the only focus in life but, reality for most is much more than expensive cars, homes and clothing etc and of course, there is a very big world out there that does not revolve around the business sector.

    The world at ground level really is a million miles from the world of golf, marketing, tailored suits and such

    I work in the field of learning disabilities, as a one to one carer of 35 hours a week for an extremely difficult young individual. (hours allocated to job description and overtime is not included)
    This individual has excessive physical and mental destructive mannerisms with an additional unnatural behaviourism towards the female species..
    All this is categorized as ‘Learning Disabled’ giving it such a simple description and the world knows nothing of the skills needed to work with any such individual.

    To say my job is difficult is understating the matter considerably, by the end of the 7 hour shift I am both physically and emotionally drained.. At times I have even come home and burst into tears due to the excessively difficult day I have endured, I am fit to drop but, relaxation is, I am sure you will respect, difficult when emotionally charged.

    To give up and walk away would leave an already fragile and vulnerable individual open to a breakdown, as has done each time a past one to one carer has upped and left due to the severity of behaviours… His behaviours worsen every rejection. I am to date the longest one to one carer he has had (coming up to 18 months)

    I have psychological academic skills which makes me a little (only a little) more considerate of his mental dysfunctions and behaviours (I say a little, because it is only natural to find public sexual tendencies and habitual destructiveness difficult to bear).

    Success to me is not about my pay packet (seriously, you dont do a job like mine for the income as it is just above minimum wage which is as ludicrous as it is insulting)
    Success in my mind is that of not giving up on those who rely on you.
    My contribution to society is like the many who do similar to my work, it is enormous despite not noticed by society itself, nor is it acknowledged by those who decide how much my efforts are worth to pay.

    I am not moaning per se, however sometimes I think the business mind forgets the world at ground level and reading your post I believe you to have no real understanding of life outside of your bubble.

    Not having a go at you, just hoping to remind you the world is not run on business alone, many occupations out there, that the business mind views as ‘little people’ are good hard working individuals who in effect keep the world moving daily so are therefore successful in their own right.

    Reply

    • Fermi's Paradox says

      November 5, 2014 at 4:29 pm

      That’s wonderful Karma, you have found what really satisfies you and rewards you in your work. Congratulations and thanks for all you do! Also, I don’t think people on this post believe the world revolves around business. I think the central point is that choices in life matters. And career choices matter in terms of income. As you have pointed out, there are often significantly greater rewards from one’s career than just what it pays.

      Reply

31. kirayon says

    October 27, 2014 at 4:58 pm

    I wake up at 4 am and get to work by 4:45 and work until 6:00pm with a half hour “lunch” break at 8 am. I am also a full time student taking 16 credits and working a second 20 hour job on the weekends. However, I am not getting ahead. Even with all of the hours I get paid near minimum wage and after taxes and insurance I am still living a good 15% below the poverty line. On top of this I support a disabled person and have to pay off school debts. Each week I put in roughly 82 hours plus put in 20-30 hours for school depending on the week. Anyone who calls golfing or working at McDonalds for 4$ as work are clearly the lazy ones. You don’t get ahead by putting in obscene numbers of hours into a senseless job, you get ahead by making connections and taking advantage of opportunities. I can work triple digit hours for the rest of my life and never get anywhere or I can have my well connected father pull some strings and get me a job sitting on my ass in an office for $35 an hour. I for example make very few connections at my job because surprise surprise I’m actually working. Not the milling about the water cooler and alt tabbing to play candy crush working but stacking pallets and carrying logs working. Most people that are poor are not poor because they don’t work over forty hours. We are poor because we work shit jobs that we are forced into because of our situations. I am never going to get an opportunity to get ahead by making a connection with some guy who has a better position for me working the tail end of a wood mill and my hundred hour work weeks ensure I sure as hell wont have any time for golf. In fact if this were a normal work week I wouldn’t even be able to be on here to post this because I would be working. However, I got injured at my job because I am overworked so I get a nice little unpaid vacation so I can see how out of touch with the world some people are. The problem isn’t not working enough hours, the problem is enormous wage gaps between positions. My father earns in a single bonus more than I do in 5 years and he sits at home with his family watching netflix most days. The trick isn’t to work more hours its to know the right people.

    Reply

    • Magus says

      April 8, 2015 at 5:14 pm

      You are working in the wrong place and I’m not even sure how those #s work out. Hell, we pay cashiers over $9/hr, are considered a low paying company, and we are primarily in the suburbs in the Southeast where wages are cheapest! Furthermore, any cashier worth *anything* is promoted to an assistant office manager within a year making $11-15/hr. Any officer assistant manager worth *anything* is promoted to a office manager making $40kish a year within 2 years of that. After that, it gets a little bit tougher but believe it or not there are grocery store managers with no college degree that make 200k/year.

      Reply

      • Fermi's Pardox says

        December 5, 2015 at 2:03 pm

        Exactly Magus, I don’t think it is a real or at least sincere/honest post.

        Reply

32. tom says

    October 14, 2014 at 10:29 am

    Here is some advice; if you don’t want to work more than 40 hours….don’t. I don’t. Find something, make it work. Leave at or before 5:00. Our work weeks should not be getting longer with advancements in technology. 20-30 years ago these companies existed WITHOUT computers. If you were longer than you want, you are at the wrong place.

    Reply

33. Heather says

    October 7, 2014 at 11:47 am

    I disagree with the idea that you must work 60+ hours per week to be successful. Now, I am a 30 year old female engineer with a few years of experience in industry, and I am finishing up a PhD this year. I take pride in my work, and in my work ethic. I have logged over 90 hours in my lab in the past 9 days, while approaching a deadline. I also worked as a waitress for 6 1/2 years while I was studying, and I have zero debt. And I am frustrated with how difficult it is to find a good job after grad school, even with prior work experience as an engineer, but that’s a separate issue.

    I have been looking for a place to make this argument. I don’t want to work 60-70 hour weeks forever in order to move forward in a career, and I don’t think I should have to. I’m 30, in a stable relationship and financially stable, and I want to have a couple of kids in the next few years. I want to continue contributing to society, and I want to keep moving forward with my career. I want to reap the benefits from this advanced study, and I want to repay society for providing me with this education. And I want to be able to afford to give my kids what I want them to have. But they will require a lot of my time. I don’t want to miss their childhoods. That is too important. I want to breastfeed, I want to read to them most evenings, and I want to be there for the little league games. There is no way I can keep up these hours when I have to add ~4~5 more hours of responsibility to every day. I should not lose credit for the work I’ve done to date, and my average pay per hour should not go down. I don’t expect to be paid the same for doing less work once I’m a parent. I do expect to do the same, or better, quality work – just less of it. I should have the option of working 2/3 the hours (40 hours instead of 60) for half the pay plus benefits, so my cost to the company per hour of work remains about the same. And I should maintain the same status in the company, remain eligible for promotions (though they may take longer to attain), stay in my professional network, and still be respected by my peers – even though I’m working fewer hours. That 40 hour week should be enough to support myself and my kids – not get rich – but it should be enough.

    Then, as my kids grow older and require less of my time, I should be able to step right back onto the corporate ladder, right where I left off. I should not have to restart or reinvent myself because I had other commitments that prevented me from working 60+ hours for a few years. This is not the only life circumstance that could take time away from work. But it is the circumstance of half of the population – for every mother – and every one of us has a mother. Maybe the lady on the bus was tired because she had to leave work and put in 3 or 4 or 5 more hours of work into caring for her child.

    Reply

    • Fermi's Paradox says

      October 8, 2014 at 12:01 pm

      Heather, unfortunately, you don’t make the rules. The “I should be able to” is an empty statement. The marketplace for labor makes the rules. You will have to adjust your expectations, nothing wrong with that. You can not work at all, as many women do when they have children. It’s every bit as honorable, perhaps more, than a career. But you can’t expect to have everything according to your own model of the world.

      Reply

      • Heather says

        October 8, 2014 at 1:22 pm

        That is a completely unfair and chauvinist assessment. The statement “I should be able to” is about my right to fair access to the free market, not about me making my own rules. The marketplace for labor (i.e. customer) absolutely makes the rules, but the market does not make this all-or-nothing sixty hour rule, corporate leaders do. It is a carry over from an earlier male dominated workplace society. The free market would allow me to work as little or (almost) as much as I want, and it would pay me according to my output, because I have developed highly specialized and highly marketable skills. I said that if I could reduce my hours, I would accept a lower salary, but not less pay per hour of work. By “I should be able to”, I mean it is my right to make that choice on the balance between my two major contributions to society – my work and my children. And it is unfair for business leaders to set rules that are different from the market requirements, just for their own convenience and to push women out. If I had the choice to reduce my hours for a few years, and I was not promoted in that time period, that would be fair; it would not be fair if my status in the company was at all reduced as a result. It is the same for my hourly pay (including benefits). I have worked very smart and very hard to this point, and I have proved that I am willing to do so. Why should I be forced to do all or nothing – 60+ hours, or zero and throw away my entire investment forever? The bigger issue is that today’s corporate culture will not allow me to reduce my hours while my children are young, but stay current in my field and in my professional network, and then continue on the same path when they no longer require so much of my time. Corporations require all or nothing, and if I choose nothing, then I have to throw away this entire huge investment in developing marketable skills, because they will not allow me jump back in where I left off after a few years. That is a huge waste for me, and it is an even bigger waste for society, and there are so many many women in similar situations. It is the corporate culture that chooses such inefficiency. The free market is losing out on substantial productivity and innovation by forcing me and so many other women to choose – all or nothing.

        I want to continue making my own contribution to society through my work, and I want to set that example for my children. For me, that is the honorable thing to do.

        Reply

        • Fermi's Paradox says

          October 9, 2014 at 5:26 pm

          Wow, you’re a bit like the pot calling the kettle black. Look who’s the chauvinist with the arguably blanket bigoted statements like “male dominated workplace society.” Don’t throw that meme at me, you think it inoculates you from criticism for your sorrow? There was nothing like that in my comment, you should be ashamed. Just as a point of reference, I am married to a well educated technology professional who would never dream of saying that.

          Yes, there is unfounded bias out there, but that does not mean IN THE REAL WORLD that women are in no way different from men in the workforce, particularly when young children are involved. Common sense dictates it is flatly impossible to be the best employee AND be the best mother. It is another one of life’s tradeoffs. Be proud of it that you have the freedom and opportunity to make that tradeoff! Some people are not able to have children or choose not to, so you have the audacity to expect you step in front of them in line or are entitled to something they are not.

          You really must better understand economics and markets as well. There certainly is no monopsony or even oligopsony for your services. You are simply competing with others who are willing to do more than you are willing. And willingness to put in long hours or endure hardships (e.g., travel, special assignments, etc.) are perfect examples of how the best and most valuable employees separate themselves. There is nothing right or wrong with that either way, it’s a choice. That’s what happens when you grow up and become an adult in the work force. Imagine a pro athlete saying, “gosh, I shouldn’t have to put in 60+ hours a week to be at the top of my game”, well good luck with that.

          So you think “business leaders” somehow conspire “and set the rules”? Listen to yourself. Those same “leaders” are not much different than you, they are almost entirely professional and educated employees like you. They’re in the same boat. And you may be one of them some day.

          And what’s this “making my own contribution to society through my work” comment about? So your work is something special relative to others who work hard too and are compensated likewise?

          Use your head.

          Reply

          • J says

            January 23, 2015 at 6:24 pm

            “That’s what happens when you grow up and become an adult in the work force.”

            I understand the argument you and the original article are making, but I think part of the reason why some people are getting defensive is because of comments like the above. Out of one corner of your mouth you’re saying “If you want to make a lot of money, then put a lot of hours in. If you don’t, then have a nice life and enjoy yourself,” but then out the other corner you’re implying that working less than 40 hours means you’re somehow a child, immature, lazy, etc. There’s always this distinctly condescending tone that just irritates people, especially since it fails to consider alternative lifestyles (single mothers, people caring for the disabled, etc.) or professions that are simply too exhausting (dangerously so) to work over 40 hours. Personally, I don’t want a nurse that’s been working six 12 hour shifts in a row giving me my meds in the hospital. I’d like to live, thanks.

            Just pointing out that your argument and others like them ignore certain points that are worth considering. That’s why you’re getting these shitty reactions from people, instead of actually listening to (or reading in this case) what you have to say.

            Reply

            • Financial Samurai says

              January 23, 2015 at 7:52 pm

              Great perspective. Thank you for sharing.

              I do believe everybody has a chance to get ahead, and not everybody is maximizing all they can to do so. But not everybody has the same magnitude of chance.

              Reply

        • Magus says

          April 8, 2015 at 5:09 pm

          How is chauvenist? While you are complaining about worknig 60 hour weeks for a few years, what about the male or career oriented woman that is willing to do it for 40+? Why should you, as someone who only works 40hrs/week, move up as fast and get paid as much as someone who continues to work 60hrs/wk?

          Reply

          • Fermi's Paradox says

            April 8, 2015 at 5:55 pm

            Magus, exactly! Not to hijack FS’ blog, I’m sure he loves it when people do this, but it’s enraging how truly entitled people feel they are.

            How is it that because you make certain life choices, however important you think they may be, others have to compensate you for that when those choices have a materially negative impact on your earnings AND financial obligations. Do people really think they can have children or engage in other socially accepted endeavors and NOT have it impact their earning potential? Who thinks like that. Children are an enormous burden and responsibility and it’s not up to others to accept it on your behalf (there is no “greater society” or “village” to do it, just individuals who collectively wind up picking up the tab).

            Yes, it may seem a bit harsh, but it’s simple reality, you can’t change it.

            As an aside: everywhere you see people dissatisfied with things that can’t be changed and they expect government to somehow magically step in and change it.

            Reply

          • Rama says

            December 5, 2015 at 9:49 am

            Magus you are looking at hours worked as the only criteria. In regards to why should someone who works 40/hrs move up as fast or get paid more as someone who works 60/hrs per week its not simply hours worked. If the person who works 40 hrs a week is 1.5 times as effective as the person working 60 hrs per week then he completes the same number of tasks as the person working 60. If he is twice as effective he completes more tasks. It’s not as simple as just hours worked.

            Reply

        • Anon says

          May 18, 2021 at 10:54 am

          Yikes. You live to work. What a sad life to live. No time for hobbies, friends, family. You sound miserable. I’m sure when you get older you’ll realize all you missed out on. Because ‘money’

          Reply

      • Jason Dunn says

        December 4, 2015 at 10:41 pm

        Hey “Fermi”, I get what you’re saying, but shrugging your shoulders and saying “the marketplace defines everything” is a cop-out. For much of human history, the marketplace said the slave labour was an acceptable way to build things. Or that a ten year old kid should work 12 hour days in a factory or starve to death.

        The marketplace does not equal morality. Attitudes, laws, and changes in production shift over time. The marketplace is *us* and if enough of us want to see change, change will come.

        Reply

        • Fermi's Paradox says

          December 5, 2015 at 11:51 am

          Hey “Jason”, don’t accuse me of shrugging my shoulders and copping out. Who do you think you’re talking to? The market place is a place of person freedom, unless encumbered by some outside force. To say it is “us” and by your definition we can deny people their right to engage in transactions under their own free will is to say we can just deny people any of their other freedoms and liberties (presumably by some majority “attitude” as you call it). You are out of your mind. Wise up. And there is nothing about a free market that implies any lack of morality or law, don’t be stupid. Trading slaves is not a failure of a free market, it is a failure of morality and law. Good god, do you even think before you write. And you should also do a little work on your facts about hours worked, child labor and starvation. You are simply and grossly attempting to confound and conflate… very sophomoric.

          Reply

34. Kevin says

    August 15, 2014 at 12:31 pm

    I want to point out, for those who have a good attitude and are willing to work, most jobs are moving away from requiring formal education… I got my first two “career” type jobs with no degree, the first without a high school diploma in fact (I was a freshman in high school when I got it) But even in recent years, I’ve had superiors making more than me with no degree. Basically, have a good attitude, know your shi*, be willing to learn and grow (and not stagnate) and you should be able to make what I am making. The internet can teach you to do anything, if you can squeeze in the time to learn. Bits a day are all it takes, but my job is to always be learning (never the exact same skillset for long) so that can be pretty tiring. Employers are going to value that most though… are you willing to have your skillset constantly be shifting over time? The work to stay dynamic in your skillset is the hardest part. I’ll give it away, I am a software engineer… right now there are more jobs than workers for my (one active) skillset, and it pays 90k a year on average (I’m still shy of that atm just yet). Check out codecademy.com if you want the internet to teach you the skills to make 90k a year (for free). This sounds like an ad, so if you’re suspicious, do your own internet research for what websites will teach you to code for free (there are a handful, and any choice is fine).

    Reply

35. Kevin says

    August 15, 2014 at 12:26 pm

    I want to point out, for those who have a good attitude and are willing to work, most jobs are moving away from requiring formal education… I got my first two “career” type jobs with no degree, the first without a high school diploma in fact (I was a freshman in high school when I got it) But even in recent years, I’ve had superiors making more than me with no degree. Basically, have a good attitude, know your shi*, be willing to learn and grow (and not stagnate) and you should be able to make what I am making. The internet can teach you to do anything, if you can squeeze in the time to learn. Bits a day are all it takes, but my job is to always be learning (never the exact same skillset for long) so that can be pretty tiring. Employers are going to value that most though… are you willing to have your skillset constantly be shifting over time? The work to stay dynamic in your skillset is the hardest part. I’ll give it away, I am a software engineer… right now there are more jobs than workers for my (one active) skillset, and it pays 90k a year on average (I’m still shy of that atm just yet). Check out codecademy.com if you want the internet to teach you the skills to make 90k a year (for free).

    So, more directly targeting your questions to the reader, I’m a 26 year old in great physical shape (martial artist in multiple styles) and my whole body hurts after 40 hours in a cubicle.

    I’m an SPSer though (see: https://hsperson.com) with a 183 IQ. I would love to work 24 hours a week, after that it becomes exhausting.

    To your question… if you enjoy 80 hours of work a week, you are not one of my species (we are still approximately the same species overall) I never experience boredom (literally, I have yet to encounter it) I just start reading or learning new skills automatically when I run out of things to do (I’m an autodidact, I self teach faster than a teacher can teach me) Being under someone else’s authority though, is about the worst thing ever. I’d take a 50% pay cut if it meant my supervisor didn’t care (at all). I tend to want to do excessively creative, impractical or mad-sciencey things in the work place and out, and I suspect I’d be richer by now if I had never signed up for a day job in the first place.

    I have 100,000 hours of productive things I wish I could be working on that my day job is keeping me from. Several careers I’d rather have that I am working toward (many that are more like hobbies, but some could pay seven figures, in extreme cases)

    Incidentally there is an article on LinkedIn going around that suggests that by 2050, the unemployment rate will be 90%, but by then, having a job won’t matter (machines will even do the thinking jobs, and minimum wage will be a living wage because nothing will cost very much by then) By that point, supporting the lower class via socialism will actually be viable / sustainable (I think some agricultural innovations and probably revolutions will be necessary (like why are we still burning perfectly good crops to make food more expensive again? My home state is literally starving)) I am actually planning to try my hand in robotics and agriculture in the next few years, if I get the chance, which by my current calculations, I will.

    But the days of not needing a job (for real) are closer than you think… just a few more decades. To me, the best thing anyone can do, if possible, is just reach a little further inside yourself than the day before (something I am still cultivating in myself) increase your capacity to give or work or learn over what it used to be. One day it will be the reason you made it through whatever hell seemed like it was going to kill you. I definitely believed I was going to fail at life for most of mine, it’s the reason I am constantly cramming more knowledge and skillsets into my whatchema-thingie.

    Lastly, the millenial generation is being projected to be a great entrepreneurial generation, something like 70% of the workforce could wind up being successful entrepreneurs. Studies link my generation (born 1982-199x) as being better managers (better, more aggressive company growth) than previous generations anyway… significantly greater growth when a company has millenials in charge than doesn’t. That being said, it’s being projected that the great corporations could dissolve entirely, and in theory, a nation with 100,000 small-to-mid size but healthy companies could be a lot healthier for the world at large than one with 5,000 larger ones.

    Embrace the changes. Things are going to get easier for those who can’t, and harder for those who can. At some point, the only skillset that will matter will be the able to continuously change. And if you can’t, so be it. You’re still okay.

    Reply

    • Financial Samurai says

      August 15, 2014 at 2:15 pm

      Thanks Kevin. I think you’ll enjoy this post to your point:

      https://www.financialsamurai.com/do-you-make-as-much-as-a-union-worker-electrician/

      Reply

    • Air says

      June 24, 2015 at 11:44 am

      “I’m an SPSer though with a 183 IQ. I would love to work 24 hours a week, after that it becomes exhausting.”

      Hahahahahahah “183 IQ” yet poor and lazy as f*. Gotta love liars on the internet.

      Reply

      • Fermi's Paradox says

        June 27, 2015 at 8:18 am

        Don’t forget, he’s a “martial artist in multiple styles” too!

        Reply

36. KittyMystix says

    August 12, 2014 at 5:43 pm

    Is everyone here working a job that doesn’t pay minimum wage? I wish I could work more than 40 hours a week, but unfortunately the only job I managed to get at the moment will not give me more hours even though I have expressed that I want them. I want to save money, get a car, pay for college, while going to college, and I have had no help from anyone. I live on my own, and don’t make enough money to have anything extra after bills. I get paid minimum wage, but taxes take about 10 hours of my work pay a week. I don’t really think it is unreasonable to complain? I constant put in applications, resumes, and look for a job walking everywhere because I do not have a car. Golly Gee I wish I could choose where I get a job, how much I make, and how much I work. How dare we peasants complain about not getting ahead. I can understand some people being lazy, but how much work does one have to do? Does everyone have to work so much that they have no time for loved ones or to be productive other than acting like a robot at a dead end job.

    Reply

    • Kevin says

      August 15, 2014 at 12:40 pm

      Yeah, I had to kill myself (deep depression, nihilism, derealization, yet held down a job/gained ground for years).

      If you want things to get easier, you can (a) wait for them to (they might actually start getting easier as more technology emerges) (b) do what I did and be bleeding internally on an emotional level for several solid years. It can pay off if you have a halfway decent plan, which I did. The world where pain doesn’t exist is coming, but it isn’t here yet.

      Self teach, if you can. Internet is good. Fewer and fewer businesses care if you have a degree. Be smart, be competent, have good attitude, have integrity. I got my first two career type jobs with no degree, the first of which I didn’t even have a HS diploma (I was 15 though at the time).

      Reply

37. Marianne says

    July 23, 2014 at 11:49 pm

    8 hours work, 8 hours recreation or family life, 8 hours sleep.

    The only reason you think you have to work 40+ hours per week to get ahead is because in America you have an extremely low minimum wage along with a very low standard of living.
    Frankly, after ten hours in the office, no one is much good for anything no matter how many hours they stay back “working”.
    Of course people should be paid to work overtime, if they agree to work the overtime in the first place.

    Reply

    • Fermi's Paradox says

      July 24, 2014 at 10:19 am

      Wow Marianne, what world are you living in? The vast majority of people working well over 40 hours per week are earning nowhere near the minimum wage, far above it. I don’t know any professional that doesn’t work more than 40 hours and on the contrary, they are well capable of going beyond 10 hours a day. It’s just choices.

      The entire minimum wage debate is a canard, it simply means those earning at a hiked minimum wage do it at the expense of others who lost their job – there are far better ways to help the poor than through a minimum wage, it is simple economics. To postulate that “every” job must have a wage to support a family is ridiculous. And you really should try to refrain from blaming America and try to get your facts straight – we have when considering income and purchasing parity (not GDP per capita as many like to taught).

      For example, Norway is considered to have one of in not the highest standard of living in the world (save perhaps Lichtenstein or Kuwait) on a GDP per capita basis, but when considering cost of living (actual purchasing parity) it is below the US. Again, it is simple economics, fewer people work as much in Norway, those who do have to support those who don’t (in that country) which results in much higher taxes and prices comparatively speaking. There is a reason why people flock to the US to chase the American dream and not to Norway, as an example.

      Reply

      • Fermi's Paradox says

        July 24, 2014 at 10:24 am

        after “GDP per capita as many like to taught)” add: one of the highest standards of living in the world.

        Reply

    • Sadie says

      February 7, 2015 at 6:25 am

      Sam,

      You have a lot of good content on your site but this post was just terrible. You are very out of touch with reality and the average American. If folks working low end jobs are needed to work more than 40 hours a week then they should be paid at 1.5x. Every hour spent working overtime is one hour less they get to spend raising their children.

      It’s time to grow up Sam and put out a product that people can relate to. The above post was a classless joke that wouldn’t allow anyone to “get ahead”.

      Reply

      • Financial Samurai says

        February 7, 2015 at 8:23 am

        Sadie, why do you think this post is about classes, and not about work ethic and economic rationality?

        Also curious why I should start producing a product people can relate to? Are you saying that I owe people, and that I don’t have the right to say what I want who come to my site?

        If so, it’s important to realize that entitlement is a wealth and society killer. Nobody owes anybody except for loved ones anything. It takes me HOURS and hours to write, edit，and publish content here. I don’t charge a thing in case you wanted your money back.

        If you are frustrated with your current situation, it doesn’t help you to call people a “joke” and “classless.” You’re the only one who can change. As someone who grew up in third world cohntries and worked in India and China, I can assure you change is possible. There is more poverty outside of America than you can ever imagine if you’ve never been.

        Reply

        • Fermi's Paradox says

          February 9, 2015 at 10:04 am

          Well said FS.

          Your posts are entirely about ethic and rational perspectives. I owned businesses in India and the Philippines. The very poorest in America are worlds ahead of the world’s poor.

          It is truly amazing how so many feel that their station in life is a result of externalities or it was done to them.

          One minor point, by inference Sadie is demanding that those with children get paid more than those without. Interesting perspective on what is “fair”.

          Reply

        • ThirdWorld says

          March 5, 2015 at 1:04 pm

          Hi Sam,
          I totally hear what you are saying but you are kind of off base. Before I respond, here’s more about me; I’m also a third worlder working in the US and in the 10% of wage earners in the entire country. The answer is NEVER more hours as you will always reach some kind of limit with that equation; and perhaps burnout. The best things to do is work smarter, NOT harder. You’re literally telling people with families and numerous other responsibilities to neglect their families and put in more hours to make someone else rich. The answer again, is more education (with something that will pay you; not philosophy), working harder; not smarter and investing your money. The ideology you are adopting is very popular to ones found in some foreign countries, so I know where it’s coming from; but it’s NOT sustainable by any means. Is the answer for someone making $15/hr to put in 60-70 hours a week on a consistent basis? Will this actually make them more successful, or just now more dependent on a paycheck for 70 hours.

          Reply

          • ThirdWorld says

            March 5, 2015 at 1:12 pm

            I forgot to add, what if you are salaried like me? Working more hours will put ZERO extra money in my pockets. You may counter and say, the fact that I put in more hours, I may get me a promotion with more money; well that’s wishing on a star, and quite a non tangible one at that. Or maybe you think I should start a second gig? But wait, I did, I started my own company in the middle of last year. There is just so much time and energy you can spend working. Also for example, no one works 8 hours a day anyway. You spend an hour in the morning getting ready for work, then the commute; then the commute home. It’s more like 10 hours for an 8 hour day. Let’s say you sleep 8..you have 6 hours left to cook, and do whatever else…does this REALLY work? Lord forbid you have some errands to run that day…. again I hear what you are saying but it’s just totally the wrong advice. My old boss comes from this mentality (Japan) and that’s why I left my last company. He has no problem working 15 hours a day, living in his parents basement, and drinking everyday. But rememberrrr….he is salaried too…working those extra hours means NO extra money for him.

            Reply

          • Financial Samurai says

            March 5, 2015 at 3:03 pm

            What about working more hours at a second job, or a side hustle?

            Reply

38. L says

    July 17, 2014 at 12:12 am

    Great points you have here FS.

    I’m curious if you have some advice for me. I’m a designer working at a startup earning ~75% of market value. The job has decent work/life balance, I only work 40-50 hours a week. This means I have a few hours a day I could spend on another project. I realize that for me working is a way to make money. But more than that, I want to make money doing something meaningful and something that I’m good at. Fortunately, I have all of these things. What I don’t have is financial independence. Not even close. I have to budget carefully and pay attention to my student loan payments (just finished grad school 2 years ago before moving to SV).

    I committed to an under-paying but rewarding startup job with high risk but a good culture. So I’ll be there for at least a year. But what I can do is work on the nights and weekends. Or mornings. I am at a crossroads as to what I can do with that time and I’m really lost about what I should do. Do you have any advice?

    I understand that the biggest stressor I have, and have had since graduating undergrad is money. Money or lack of it has always made me make decisions I don’t want to make, but it leaves me without choice. I want to be debt free and with the freedom and options to go for what I really want to do, what I’m really interested in, not just the limited options I have right now in front of me. I want to get out of the “worker” mindset and into that of the creator. I feel as a naturally creative person I can easily create new ideas, but I have little practical application in turning these into money.

    Reply

    • Fermi's Paradox says

      July 18, 2014 at 11:13 am

      Pardon me just jumping in here FS.

      L: Being committed to just one year isn’t really much of a commitment, can’t imagine you could expect much from your employer for your “sweat equity.” What you describe though sounds like a reasonable deal if you are just 75% under market UNLESS it is in a field that is in demand, naturally (e.g., engineering, math, medical sciences, etc.). Not clear what kind of “designer” you are.

      L: You also touch upon a real issue people have today and why I am replying. A couple generations ago people went to school and chose vocations to earn the best living they could and achieve financial independence, rarely to go out and do “what they want to do.” It’s just life, most of what we perceive (at a young age) as the really fun, rewarding jobs and the things we want to do are not in demand, create little value and the jobs are over subscribed. I wanted to be an artist and then a professional athlete early on; it wasn’t realistic, I simply do not have the very rare talent to make a living at it. Our economy functions based on demand for the things people most want, and sadly it’s not art or watching some above average athlete (the market does not reward this with money). Perhaps you need to assess your abilities and the marketplace, then choose a career that you can realistically achieve financial independence. There’s nothing wrong with that, in fact, it is what we are all obligated to do (i.e., maintain our own financial independence). You can also find personal reward in it as well, it’s a state of mind. Then go out and work on your passion as much as you can, it just may not be an option to make a good living at it.

      Reply

39. Gary says

    July 10, 2014 at 8:20 am

    Hey Sam I’m enjoying my thursday going threw your blog and this one in particular stood out because I do agree that americans are fat, selfish, stupid, lazy and just general garbage of the world but I don’t blame the Individual because our society is fa ricated to be this way, this is what happens when you put apes in clothes and give them ray guns and computers. Anyhow my point I wanted to make is that I feel your blogs are slightly biased towards the more progressive end of the spectrum and you kind of leave out the people who work in trades and labor industry, where a 40-50 hour week for a healthy 21 year old is a lot to try and manage along with a fullfilling personal life. but even still the way the world is. why would you want to work more than 50 hours a week? Where I come from we make the most of what we have and enjoying life is more important than money or social status. Unless some folks are just so brainwashed to the point that they need that social status to validate there own Self worth.

    Reply

    • Financial Samurai says

      July 10, 2014 at 10:23 am

      Gary, welcome to my site.

      I’m obviously going to have my biases, b/c I’m sharing how I see the world. However, if you want to get rich or get promoted faster, then I don’t think a 40 hour week is going to cut it when many people are working much more.

      If you want a more “fulfilling personal life” which does not include money or career, then of course try and relax as much as possible and do something else. If career and money is important, then spend some more time working on your X factor after work.

      Bottom line: Work 40 hours a week or less, but never complain why you can’t get ahead.

      Reply

      • klf says

        February 1, 2015 at 3:38 pm

        I work well over 40 hrs a week.Lol I probally could not survive on such a check.I work harder and longer and am a single father.I have 3 x the responsibility as co workers. Everyone at my work knows I am the hardest worker there. I have been past over 3 times now for same promotion.I help those promoted keep face.I cant move to take another job because of I share legal custody. I work in aviation also so my stress levels are insane. Lol I bet if you missed something or were not completely focused on work that people could not die and you imprisoned for manslaughter.Daily stress how would you fare?look it up most stressful job in world with lowest pay!

        Reply

        • Fermi's Paradox says

          February 2, 2015 at 12:21 pm

          klf: Why in the world would you choose that occupation?

          Reply

40. FermisParadox says

    July 8, 2014 at 8:53 am

    Another great post Sam! It is really no mystery why some are successful.

    Reply

41. DoveArrow says

    July 4, 2014 at 9:17 am

    While I agree that people who take 90 minute coffee breaks have no room to complain that they aren’t getting promoted, I do think that there is a tendency to reward people who are busy rather than people who are efficient. When I start a job, I usually take the first year to examine processes, figure out the most efficient way to do them, and implement those efficiencies. This sometimes takes a little bit of computer programming, some figuring out how to use the Microsoft Office Suite more effectively, and perhaps even changing a few office policies. Invariably, these changes cut anywhere from 2-4 hours of wasted time out of my day.

    Now compare what I do to my co-workers. Many of them can barely open a spreadsheet, much less use one. When looking for duplicates on two separate spreadsheets, they will print out both and go through them laboriously line-by-line, rather than running a simple query in Access. They don’t know what a Mail Merge is, they think that learning to program is a waste of their time, and when it comes to office policies, they’d rather die than change the way things are. As a result, they work 50-60 hours a week in order to get everything done.

    Now here’s the rub. I have seen people like my co-workers, who make less efficient use of their time, get rewarded with overtime and promotions time and again. People like me, who are more efficient and innovative, get rewarded with laborious, boring shit jobs that need to get done, but nobody else has time to do. That’s because busyness in our culture is equated with ambition whereas efficiency is overlooked and often equated with laziness.

    Now you may think that this is just hearsay and that my co-workers are probably still more productive than I am simply because they’re working longer hours. However, study after study has shown that people who work 60 hour weeks are no more productive than people who work 40 hours per week. In fact, entrepreneurs, like Henry Ford, and even whole countries, like Germany, have demonstrated over and over again that paying people more to work less hours more efficiently do far better than their competitors who work people harder for less pay but more overtime.

    Now granted, there are times when people are more productive when working long hours. For example, in short sprints to meet a particular deadline, people can be more productive working 60 hour weeks. Also, people who are socially awkward and have the laser-like focus of a high functioning autistic can work long hours while forgetting to do things like eat and sleep. (This is one of the reasons the tech industry took off.) However, these are the exceptions, not the norm. For the rest of us, working 60 hours per week leaves us more stressed out, less fulfilled, less innovative, and more sleep deprived. There’s also the environmental impact, since people who have less time tend to drive more and take advantage of high energy consuming conveniences.

    You think that working long hours is a sign of ambition. I, however, think that it could just as easily be a sign that you aren’t using your time as efficiently and as effectively as you could. You might take objection to that, but then again, you’re the one that’s telling me working 40 hours a week is a sign of laziness and not efficiency.

    Reply

    • Financial Samurai says

      July 4, 2014 at 9:24 am

      Those are some good points about business and efficiency.

      However, I would encourage people to be busy and efficient. That’s how a lot of people really get aheads. It’s a double win.

      Reply

    • Joe says

      January 29, 2015 at 7:47 pm

      I like this comment a lot. Time is give to us all and our efficiency make a big difference because that changes the multiplier in our output.

      Time x productive efficiency = work performed

      If you produce more than others, ask for a raise and back it up with results…don’t let others ride you. However, remember who the boss is and if all they’ll pay is x amount…you need to decide if you want to stay or go where its more beneficial for you.

      the other factor that affect us all is out of our control…and that is the opportunity others extend to us. We can work towards learning more, being more likeable, and even the most loyal…but we all answer to someone else in life (or sometimes several others)…and if they want to keep us down…we sometimes suffer for that. Remember that you can choose what to do but you must live with the consequences.

      Reply

42. Johnny says

    June 3, 2014 at 1:17 pm

    The only way to make more money is to convince people to work for you so that you can use their man hours towards your paycheck. With that said, if you are constantly working 70-80 hours a week and not starting a business, than you’re not “getting ahead” at all; rather, you’re just fighting to sustain your lifestyle. Even CEOs that are getting paid a million dollars a year to run major corporations never see the kinds of profits that the majority share holders of a company are seeing and I guarantee you not all shareholders are working over 40 hours a week. In fact I bet a lot of people who are majority shareholders aren’t even working at all. I didn’t really like your article because it had a real snarky work harder not smarter attitude. I’m not interested in working long hours in life because I don’t enjoy working, but I sure hope I find some brainwashed motivated people like you to invest in for the future.

    Reply

    • Fermi's Paradox says

      October 13, 2014 at 3:58 pm

      Spoken like a true socialist! If you only knew what you were talking about. BTW: the best way to lose a fortune is to go into business thinking you’re going to live off other people’s hard work. That’s a recipe for failure. And when it comes to creating successful businesses there are far more failures than successes, they are just not talked about as much.

      Reply

      • Troy says

        August 8, 2015 at 5:19 pm

        Finally someone said what I was thinking the entire time; one should work smarter. (I will leave out the “harder” part of the adage, because that can be interpreted in too many ways). I attempted to work for my father when I was 19 or 20, and have had other laborious jobs before choosing a profession that required serious graduate and post graduate education, but which allows me to be self employed and make an exceptionally high hourly wage. What prompted my development was that more physically demanding jobs were so intolerable I quit. Voluntary unemployment allowed me time to explore possibilities and make a new start. People who work in construction or nursing, for example, are simply so exhausted at the end of the day that they can’t expend more energy exploring other career avenues. Unfortunately, they’re stuck…..making money for other people as Johnny pointed out. Also, many of the hours professionals spend on the internet, having business lunches and golfing with clients, wouldn’t be considered “work” AT ALL by laborers.

        Reply

    • Karma says

      January 15, 2015 at 10:54 am

      Well said!! :)

      Reply

      • Karma says

        January 15, 2015 at 10:57 am

        Sorry, my `well said` comment was in reply to johnny but, came out below FP :P

        Reply

    • Magus says

      April 8, 2015 at 4:49 pm

      You should work harder AND smarter. It’s how I went from $7/hr to $100/hr in less than 15 years.

      Reply

43. ken tanner says

    May 23, 2014 at 8:50 pm

    take this into consideration i live in Michigan and work on a potato farm all year not seasonally i get about 55hrs a week minimum but i don’t get overtime its a straight wage right thru and it fucking sucks this weeks check 53hrs and about $309 dig that I WANT OVERTIME i have a child to feed!

    Reply

    • Kai says

      May 26, 2014 at 7:44 pm

      I enjoy your blog and find it valuable, but wish it was more relatable to a majority of people who could benefit from your expertise. This seems to be catored to upper-class people who actually wouldnt need your advise, and boarders on classist, out of touch, and at some points offensive.

      I think this article may be a little skewed for two reasons:

      1) increased work in industrial society can be psychologically unhealthy. In the documentary “happy” one of the most sucessful developing countries featured is Japan, where working oneself to death is socially considered an honor. Living in a world that continually disreguards normal rest and recreation in support of “getting ahead” may actually be harming the social fabric of our cultures and the health of individuals. In other words, I think you should be able to work 25-40 hours a week, earn a living wage, and have hobbies and community projects on the side. Growing class inequity is making that kind of lifestyle increasingly challenging– primarily the assumption that “getting ahead” requires sleep and social deprivation compounds this degredation of society.

      2) “It’s fun to interact online, go play golf with clients…” I’m surprised you didn’t see how histerical this comment might be to the average reader. Golfing with clients may be “work” for you, but is something a majority of the working population would see as laughably out of touch. If I counted my waking hours as part of my work week, then yes, from 5am to 11pm each day I am “on”, buying groceries to pack lunches, managing web projects, commuting to work, earning a living and managing my finances could encompass all of the work I do to progress in life (my “day job” is 40 hours). It’s much easier to tout a 70 hour work week when it includes net surfing and client play dates, meanwhile the average worker is being timed on their ten minute smoke break.

      Working in entry level positions for typical corporate employers IS exhausting, depending on the management style, level of personal freedom and what is considered “work”. Personally, in my day job I often do manual labor outdoors for research projects, we work in 90 degree heat some days over extremely rough terraine. 5 hours out in the field with us you’d be ready to call it a day. ;) It sounds as if you’ve never had a real job working for anyone. Theres a difference between working hard for yourself (an 80 hour week of joy) and the sometimes soul-sucking existance of waiting for the weekend. The exhaustion your shocked about is probably directly coorilated to your level of schedule flexibility, freedom, and lack of supervision stress.

      One things for sure we can probably both agree on– work burn out has nothing to do with hours worked, and everything to do with the kind of work you are doing.

      Reply

      • Financial Samurai says

        May 26, 2014 at 8:15 pm

        I used to work for $4 an hour at McDonald’s and other more physically demanding jobs. I think b/c I worked those jobs that made me really appreciate working hard now and doing everything possible in order to NOT do these jobs for my life. (https://www.financialsamurai.com/worst-bad-jobs-that-can-make-you-rich-and-happy/)

        As you say, life is about balance, and after working my butt off for 13 years, I retired from Corporate America in 2012. Working hard to gain financial freedom is WORTH IT! (https://www.financialsamurai.com/taking-a-leap-of-faith-retiring-on-own-terms/)

        Nobody is going to save us when we no longer work. Not the government, not our employers. Those who think this post is “classist” are simply finding an excuse for not waking up before everyone else and leaving later than everyone else. Hard work takes no skill.

        The follow up question I have for you is: Do you COMPLAIN why you can’t get ahead? It doesn’t sound like you are, so this post is irrelevant to you because you are doing your best and accepting what your best is giving you.

        Reply

        • AR says

          January 14, 2015 at 10:45 am

          You have no idea what your talking about. My job would break your body in a day. And these past 4 weeks I’m working 70 hrs because things are in shambles. I haven’t seen my wife in her waking hours in almost 2 weeks. I haven’t done anything except try to grasp for sleep and eat what I can when I can. At this point my legs are so tired from lifting that its hard to keep my balance even when walking. Your work isn’t work. You want to talk about the majority so bad why don’t you go do some work on a roof as a tile carry boy. Or a post hole digger for a fencing company. You know what you’ve done. And I can tell you right now. If there is anything in your un working life that you remotely care about. Anything more than 60 hrs makes it impossible to do anything with it. America has brain washed people like you into production drones. Because you want more money? When your laying on your death bed what will you be thinking about? All that money you worked so hard to make that you can’t take with you? Or all the time you missed out spending time doing the things you love or being with those you love.

          Reply

          • AR says

            January 14, 2015 at 10:50 am

            And you sleep 5 hrs a night. Lol. Wow. If only that could give me what I need to do the job I do. I make good money. Come to work with 5 hrs of sleep? Never. At some jobs you can get someone killed from the consequences of sleeping that little. Get out of here. This is obviously a job where you sit in a chair all day. If I had a desk job your point MIGHT be valid.

            Reply

            • Ren says

              February 18, 2015 at 11:10 pm

              Oh my!!! I laughed so hard at your posts! Good insight! My mind did not even go there.. It is true that there are jobs where it would be unfair to those that you work with and/or serve, if you overworked yourself as I believe working his suggested number of hours would amount to.

              However, I do think that he has a valid point… Even if your work involves hard manual labour, you can for example; turn a hobby you enjoy into a potential source of income; learn a new skill (dressmaking or languages [Adding German to my French and English! :p]) to increase your earning potential; or do less physically demanding work to supplement your income. Life is hard and, I am learning, shockingly unfair, but there is always something you can do to improve your situation and complaining and feeling sorry for yourself for even a second is not one of them. Fair point in that he is only looking at things from the perspective of those with “intellectual” jobs where you mostly use your mind and not your hands, but you could try and see past the red coming from behind your eyes and tweak his good suggestions so that they become more relevant. Also, he does not seem to take into account the value in those small breaks and sub-optimal utilization of time.. But we all have our priorities and this IS a blog about getting ahead and building wealth.

              I spend nearly my entire weekends sleeping (’cause I enjoy lucid dreaming and the clarity sleep brings) and open my laptop the second I get in from outside and will remain on it until the early morning (heck- it’s past 2 am right now!)!! What a waste of time. I found the entry to be quite inspiring and the little kick I need to better utilize my time and enjoy being the lovely twenty year old goddess that I am, all while paving the way for a more financially prosperous future. n_n

              Reply

          • Fermi's Paradox says

            January 16, 2015 at 10:18 am

            Sounds like you need to change jobs AR. Gain skills, interest and determination in a more marketable occupation, the money will follow. That’s what the vast majority of people do and they get ahead as a result. Otherwise, we’d all be Wal-Mart greeters or leaf rakers demanding $50 an hour.

            Reply

        • Rob says

          January 20, 2015 at 9:29 am

          This is the most retarded advise and outlook I have ever seen. Working 40 hours a week is way way way to much time to be slaving away… especially if you work for other people. Wealth = how much time off and freedom you have. Telling people to just work more hours is STUPID! Whats the point? Why not earn much more per hour and work way less hours? That sounds like a better option. Who cares how much money you make at the end of the week if you have no time off to enjoy it. Who cares if you pull in 2k per week if you work 55 or 60 hours. Thats only 33$ and hour or so… WEAK SAUCE!!! NO ONE who is on their death bead says… “Dang if I only would have worked 4 more hours per day I could have made more money.” NO people say I wish I would have taken more risks, I wish I would have WORKED LESS, I wish I would have followed my passion, etc. If your passion is to work. COOL do it. But for the rest of us who have other passions and talents working 40 plus hours a week is just a waste of time and really does not put us ahead in any way.

          Reply

          • Financial Samurai says

            January 20, 2015 at 9:49 am

            The good thing about my advice being the worst advice and outlook you’ve ever seen is that there’s only UPSIDE for you then!

            You missed a qualifier in this post: people who complain why they can’t get ahead while working less than 40 hours a week.

            Have a read of this post and get pumped! Save More, Make More, Grow Your Net Worth Now!

            Reply

    • Alexandra says

      October 13, 2014 at 12:42 pm

      Do you work for $5 an hour? MI min wage is $8/hour.

      Reply

      • Shasta Jones says

        November 25, 2014 at 9:18 pm

        Here in Utah it’s $7.25 an hour

        Reply

        • Karma says

          January 15, 2015 at 10:53 am

          Just butting in here, In the UK it is £6.30 an hour, fortunately I earn a little more but my daughter (aged 22) earns minimum wage.

          I think it works out at around $9?

          Reply

      • Bill says

        January 21, 2015 at 8:09 am

        Take taxes and ssi from that $8 an hour and see what you’re left with; about $5.

        Reply

        • Magus says

          April 8, 2015 at 4:48 pm

          At $8/hr, you will pay FICA that reduces you to $7.50 but not only will you not pay federal income taxes, you very likely will qualify for EITC. Yes, I realize some may be witheld but you get it back at the end of the year.

          Reply