I hope everyone had a wonderful Valentine’s Day! I spent about $360 dollars on a dozen long stem red roses and took my wife on a scenic helicopter ride over Napa Valley to a secret mountain villa. Just kidding. Instead, I got her some white roses for $20 because they smelled better, did some last minute grocery shopping and cleaned the kitchen at 6:45am, whoo hoo!
Depending on someone for money is a terrible feeling. Imagine being a grown adult still living at home with your parents. Every time you go out, you’ve got to ask them for a couple bucks to buy a loaf of bread or more likely, beer money to hang out with your buddies.
Now imagine marrying someone, giving up your job to raise a family, and being entirely dependent on your working spouse for all your spending needs. A common situation, but is it ideal?
It’s one thing to depend on someone for money as a kid. It’s another thing to be dependent on someone as an adult after getting a college education and marketable work skills.
For all this talk about the desire for financial independence, it’s odd that some couples aren’t willing to establish separate financial accounts to allow each other more freedom.
My Husband Is A Rich Controlling Miser
I recently received an e-mail from a reader who highlights the point about the importance of financial independence in a marriage. I asked her to elaborate her thoughts on the subject after her initial e-mail, and this is what she wanted me to share.
Sam,
It’s been a while since we last corresponded, but I wanted to drop in and say how much I agree with you regarding the importance of having separate financial accounts.
My husband and I are worth about $4 million, up from $900,000 in 2012. Last year, he made over $1 million from his business, but you would never know it.
We live in a house worth less than 40% of our annual gross income, while some people spend 3-5X their annual income on a house. We have a 10+ year old car and he prefers to bike everywhere.
I’ve been a stay at home mother for the past 10 years. I help out with our business where I can. However, between picking up our daughter from school and shuttling her between activities, I admittedly don’t do a large amount of business work as I used to. It’s his baby.
I’ve been with my husband since the business first started. For years, we hardly made any money and I was his support system. I did a lot of the grunt work in the beginning to help lift the business off the ground.
I was also a happy, independent woman who had a day job before our daughter was born. Having my own paycheck to spend as I wished was liberating.
Despite the rise in our wealth and our income, I felt trapped because we only have joint accounts with different spending habits. My husband is a miser who wants me to run all expenditures by him first. We’re talking about even a $25 toy for our daughter.
If I spent $1,000 more a month, it wouldn’t make a dent to our budget because we only spend about $4,000 a month and pull in over $100,000 a month. However, to him, spending $1,000 more a month would be a big “no no” given it would be a 25% increase. That’s right, spending more than 5% of our monthly income is way too much for him to handle.
He simply cannot let go of his excessively frugal ways, even if it was hurting our relationship. As you know, being a stay at home parent is hard work. I resent having to “ask for permission” before buying anything, even it’s for our family.
My husband spends more time on his business and on his hobbies than he does with me and his daughter. He’s always jockeying to promote his business by doing interviews and TV spots. It’s nauseating how full of himself he is.
He tells people publicly how little he cares about money to justify his parsimonious ways. But in secret, he is money obsessed. All he wants is more of it!
Given our differences, I decided to get a divorce after 15 years of marriage. It was a tough call but I’m much happier to have my freedom back.
He bought another house close by while my daughter and I stay in our original home to reduce disruption. I think you called it “bird nesting.” I call it stupidity because it was an unnecessary $300,000 expense if we would have worked things out.
He can hoard his money as he pleases. I’m now free to do as I please with half our assets.
Regards,
Financially Free
Money Is A Big Reason For Divorce
If you haven’t figured it out by now, money is one of the top 10 reasons why couples divorce.
The other reasons include: infidelity, lack of communication, constant bickering, weight gain, unrealistic expectations, lack of intimacy, lack of equality, not being prepared for marriage, and abuse.
If you have one spouse making all the money, there will naturally be a lack of equality, no matter how much you believe there isn’t.
It’s like a couple owning a car. If one spouse only has the keys, that spouse determines their destination most of the time.
Think about the power dynamics in the workplace and how it is frowned upon for managers to date their subordinates. Think about the #MeToo Movement.
If you want to control your spouse, then feel free to make more money and throw up checkpoints before every dollar can be spent. The lack of equality between spouses is a bigger problem than society recognizes.
Ways To Make Your Spouse Financially Independent
- Get Married. Marriage brings about stability for the less wealthy spouse. Assets accumulated after the marriage will be divided equally in a divorce. Alternatively, assets will be distributed based on the conditions of the prenup. A spouse will also receive their deceased spouse’s Social Security benefits.
- Establish independent financial accounts. Independent financial accounts should be additions to a couple’s main joint accounts. The independent accounts should be seen as “pressure release valves” to give each spouse the freedom to spend as they choose.
- Create a business and give ownership. A business is a separate legal entity that can have whatever ownership structure you want. One way to create more equality is to give a greater percentage of ownership to the spouse who earns less or doesn’t earn at all. Not only does this show good faith, but a higher ownership structure might also motivate the spouse to work hard at building the business.
- Contribute extra to their retirement accounts. If one spouse has less in his or her retirement accounts, the other spouse can contribute more to create more balance. Given you can’t contribute to someone else’s IRA or 401(k), it’s best to help build your spouse’s after-tax investment accounts. You can, however, elect to contribute more to your child’s 529 plan.
- Pay down their debt. Paying down one spouse’s credit card and/or student loan debt upon first entering a marriage is a very strong gesture. Even if there continues to be an income imbalance, the spouse whose debt was paid off will feel incredibly liberated and appreciative.
- Assign an income to the SAH parent. If one spouse works and another spouse is a stay at home parent, then assign an income amount for the stay at home parent. No job is more important than taking care of a child. Therefore, the stay at home parent should be paid top dollar. Do an honest assessment of the number of hours the SAH parent works in a 24-hour period. A six-figure income for a SAH parent is completely reasonable, especially if the household lives in a high cost of living area.
Set Your Partner Free
I’ve seen too many divorces where the wife ended up in financial turmoil because she had sacrificed her career for her husband and family. Then they broke up. Being out of the workforce for years makes finding work difficult.
By helping make your spouse independently wealthy, no matter what happens to your relationship, your spouse will always be fine. This is true love.
The key is to be selfless and think about the bigger picture. Don’t be that rich, miserly, ex-husband as one reader described above. Having millions of dollars but nobody to spend it with is sad.
Financial freedom is a wonderful gift to give. When I helped my wife negotiate a severance in 2015, I couldn’t have been prouder. I felt like I had been waiting for her for three years at Heaven’s gate.
Now, whenever I do something wrong, all I have to do is remind her how awesome it that she doesn’t have to commute downtown in rush hour traffic anymore. Then all is good again!
If you seek financial independence, then you must also give financial independence. Strive for equality every day.
Related Posts:
The Marriage Penalty Tax Has Been Abolished, Hooray!
The Average Net Worth For The Above Average Couple
How To Get Your Spouse To Work Longer So You Can Retire Earlier
A Divorce Ruined My Life, But I Clawed My Way Back
Readers, why do we seek financial freedom, yet are unwilling to give financial freedom to our partner or spouse with a separate financial account? How much does money have to do with power in a relationship? What type of money fights do you have and how are they resolved?
My husband is the one who works . I stay home and care for my baby Grandson. When I had to leave my job 3 years ago he removed my name from the account.. I found out a bit later. I never have even a dollar with me . I have to ask him for things like food shopping or getting my hair cut. He mostly says he doesn’t have any money and I have no way of knowing. I feel like I can’t leave because of my Grandson.. My daughter has custody but he lives with us.. She was not well for a long time and is working to get better so she can raise him herself.. Complicated and crazy is my Truth but it is my Truth. I don’t know what to do at this point. I can’t go to work for another 2 yrs at least. Says things will be different but they never are .
(1) If you did not provide permission to have your name removed from your bank account, chances are he possibly forged your signature, as most banks require both names on a joint account to sign off on changes to said account.
(2) Please take a more active approach to your own financial security. Just reading this, I get the sense that you have given up and given in; because it’s less stressful. But the reality is, your husband is making a statement.
(3) Where is your Grandson’s Father? Isn’t he the person that should be responsible for taking care of his own child? Is he not safe for the child to be around? If there are no risk and safety concerns, allow him to take care of his responsibilities and you can assist…sometimes.
(4) I am curious. I wonder if your husband has some resentment about these changes that have affected him as well? Because make no mistake, he is also being impacted, firstly becoming the only bread winner, secondly having a small child back in the home when perhaps he was ready for it just to be you two.
(5) Ask yourself did you want to leave prior to these adjustments?
(6) Finally, are you able to work part-time, or from home?
So, I know this post hasn’t had a comment since February, but Im going to go against the grain and jump into the lions den, because I felt the controlling miser mentioned in the letter needed a voice.
I too, am controlling and pretty frugal with money. I guess it is a psychological thing. I am 40, my wife is 34, married 2 years, together for 15 years.
I am good with money, she is horrible. I am educated with a masters in business, she has a high school diploma with a few college credits. I have 400k in assets (we have a prenup), she has none.
I am debt-free, she has school loans. I work full time, she works part time. She takes care of our 5 year old daughter, takes her to school, picks her up, cooks dinner for both of us, and does the housework.
I make 90% of the household income, she makes 10%. When her paycheck comes in, I take 80% to put towards the bills, and she retains 20% to do as she pleases with it.
All household expenditures go through me. When something is needed: household items, clothes for our daughter, etc. she alerts me, and I buy it.
This system seems to work for us.
Good thing you found your wife And have a system that is working for you!
You know what he is doing is not right. You know that system does not work for the both of them. Speak up!! Don’t be a coward!!!
Eh? Sure seems like it’s working for them. Who am I to judge if their system works?
But you’re free to judge and share your own methodology as well.
Wow you take 80% of her earnings? You are using money as a tool of control. Step off your high horse 400k is crap! It seems to work for you??? You will know if it works for the both of you after she divorces you. You talk in this post down to your wife. Reread what you said about her. You should be ashamed of yourself, talking about your wife like that. Do you even love her???
Yes, If, I don’t take 80%, the money would be wasted on non-sensible things. Yes, your right, I guess I do use the money as a sense of control, Is being controlling a bad thing? Dosent every human in one way, shape or form, like to have a sense of control? You and others in this article, make it out to seem being controlling is the horrible thing. My wife is very controlling over our daughter. We are both controlling in our own ways, its not one-sided.
Im failing to see how in my post, Im talking down to my wife. Im simply pointing out facts about each of us, to help readers understand that we are not one of those situations where the wife gave up a lucrative career to be a stay at home mom.
400k may not seem like a lot to you or others, but Im happy with it. Its more then most people I grew up with have, who came from poverty in Bronx, NY. My 400k is still growing and on course to be 1M by age 55.
Breath easy my friend! God Bless!
Lance, I wouldn’t be surprised at all if your wife was slowly poisoning you at every opportunity. She obeys because she’s frightened of you and has little recourse, it does not mean she loves you. My advice would be to treat your wife with more respect and not use her challenges as a soapbox for your own accomplishments. Which is obviously what you did here. Do you even realize what childcare would cost if you had to pay it out of pocket? Get a clue. I do wish your wife and daughter much happiness and prosperity, especially given the circumstances.
Lance you’re doing fine. Forget what “Lars” and “John” are saying. Tiffany and Kari are more than likely abunch of lazy slobs, similar to my wife. She was “independent” before i met her but its amazing how quickly that disappeared. Now i spend my months begging her to contribute to the family in some way other than playing her Playstation in the basement. She takes care of the son? Sure, i spend a lot of time crying quietly to myself about how my son is being neglected. She refuses to work, she refuses to go back to school and graduate (id be happy to pay for that if it meant i was sinking money into student loans every month for a piece of paper shes too lazy to get). Im so tired of hearing these cunts play the sad fiddle about their pay and lot in life. They expect soemone to shoulder all of the risk and then spend their paycheck. My marriage should have ended a long time ago but i cant bare the thought of not seeing my son when i want. Talk about controlling? Get back to me when the divorce and child support systems in America are more equitable. Im forced to stay in this shit situation because thats the cost of loving my child.
A marriage is a partnership. What he is doing is parenting her. The problem isn’t money, the problem is Mr. Control freak didn’t marry someone with his same financial ideals. It amazes me how people lack common sense and balance.
PS: no woman wants to crawl in bed with “daddy” unless her problems are as big as his clearly are.
PPS: money isn’t everything- having a balanced , healthy relationship IS
Your wife has the right to retain at least 50% of her earnings for her own needs so she doesnt have to ask you for everything! It’s not her fault that she’s earning lesser than you are and you married her meaning you accept her as she is, with only her high school diploma and all.
I understand there being someone who is better with finances to oversee them. However, maybe the wife never had the means to be able to learn how to manage monies. Wouldn’t educating her be helpful to you both. If you were to become ill, she would need to be able to do the things you do. Plus you mentioned a prenup, for the 2 year marriage, but she put 15 years into yalls relationship and you don’t trust her enough with your money. You hear if she leaves you, she’d take more than you want her to. Yet you taking 80% of her income each month doesn’t allow her to protect herself if you were to leave her. You want your cake and eat it too. And she’s allowed you to gain the type of control that protects you and only you. You’ve got her trapped right where you want her. She’s dependent upon you to survive and she’s dependent upon staying with you to continue surviving and not be homeless. Put shoes on the other foot and think how much you would want to be in that situation. I bet you just thought to yourself, I’d never let myself be in that situation…. EXACTLY, so why want the “woman you love” to have to go through something that you wouldn’t want yourself!!!!????
Goosh,
You bring up some good counter-points, and respect given to presenting it in a respectful manner, unlike “Lars” and “John”.
Trying to educate her on financial issues is an approach I never considered, but I guess I could try. I always thought paying bills, money, investments, managing money is a foreign concept to her, or it would be like trying to teach calculus to a 2nd grader who knows basic math.
In regards to trapping her, I don’t necessarily agree with that. I provide her a very good life and comfortable one at that, not only for her, but us as a whole family unit.
We both came from unsafe neighborhoods, with a horrible educational system, and very few job opportunities, and she would not be living as good as she does now, without the money I make. She would be back living at her crowded moms house in the “hood”. I know this, because she has no desire to become better educated, or learn any formidable job skill, with or without me.
But, your right, she is dependent on me, and before me she was dependent on her mother. She has been sheltered and taken care of her own life. She doesn’t know the sense of a dollar or ever had to work for anything she needed or wanted, it was always given to her.
Anyhow, you have opened my mind to the possibility of her attempting to teach her some financial responsibility, so thank you for that. I do have my doubts, but it cant hurt.
Lance..
Oh, I wanted to add:
To your point, “she has put up with me for 15 years”.
That is something that has not gone unrewarded. I am fair after all.
For every year, she has been with me, that counts as 1% of my assets, 2% for every year of being with me and mothering our child, and will be 3% for every year with our 2nd child (we are expecting!) upon my passing.
As of right now she is entitled to 20%, the other 80% is left to my daughter. Will be adjusted to reflect our 2nd child. That reminds me I havent updated her percentage in the last 2 years.
I think this should be used for all husbands who are the financial backers of the marriage or family. This forces wives to earn their inheritance. I call it the “deserving wife clause”.
Look how many gold digging woman marry and divorce as soon as they can to get half the mans assets, and repeat the process. They exist! I know some personally! Thats their hustle.
Protect yourselves men! Don’t be the victims of those scandalous woman out their for your hard earned money!
Your wife has the right to retain at least 50% of her earnings for her own needs so she doesnt have to ask you for everything! It’s not her fault that she’s earning lesser than you are and you married her-meaning you accept her for what she is, with only her high school diploma and all!
I don’t understand why men calculate everything down to the smallest cent. Love shouldn’t be about numbers. Most women are not as opportunistic as you make them seem to be. Call it archaic, but most women just want to feel secured with a man, and if you’re the loving, protective man of the family, you would understand this and not let your selfish ego ruin an otherwise beautiful relationship.
The only thing I find questionable here is the prenup. Why? To me that indicates a lack of trust right from the get go. I would never marry anyone who wanted me to sign a prenup.
Why not?
Its simple Math.
50% of all marriages in the US end in divorce.
Husband comes into the marriage with all the assets and no debt.
Wife comes into the marriage with no assets and debt.
Should wife deserve 50% of husband assets in the event of divorce?
Sorry, I worked too hard to earn my money to give away half of it.
Im not saying she deserves nothing for the years dedicated to the marriage. (See above comments for the “deserving wife clause”). They can leave with a “prorated pension“. But not half.
So she works part-time AND takes care of your daughter? Sounds like she has a full-time job as a SAHM + a part-time job. So even though you make more money than she does, you still take 80% of her part-time salary AND let her keep 20%? The fact she stays at home, makes dinner for you, AND does housework IS the reason you are able to be make 90% of the household income. If her income is only 10% then instead of taking most of it, you should let her keep it AND provide her a salary for her other “job.”
Relief and heartache are my reactions to your article and to the comments which followed.I am 66 years old my husband is 70 and we are retired after raising a family of four.I worked for many years in a stressful job and bore the brunt of child.care and household duties,.I eventually had to leave my job because of burn out.I remained in receipt of a small pension and inherited money so was always able to pay for the family to have holidays outings and i furthered my own education.It took years for me to realise that my husband was not only frugal but cruelly mean.He( to the outside world) seemed charming and considerate.In reality he scorned spending on birthdays ,Christmas , utility items in the house,cars etc.To save face i covered the costs and got myself into debt which I still pay off.It has taken until now for me to see that this behaviour was not about budgeting pe se but about lack of love and respect for me and above all about control.I have over the years confronted these issues head on but always end up demeaned and doubting my own judgement,He currently has a healthy bank balance but does not voluntarily offer me assistance.I feel like a dog begging for scraps .I have had enough of his behaviour and his ability to deceive others.Financially i am unable to leave him ..but hopefully in the next year I will.Your article has helped me see that fault is not all with me and has given me consolation in realising my judgement is not as flawed as he would have me believe.I am so grateful to happen upon this discussion.My self esteem is non existent but I feel maybe there is hope
the man who said he takes 80% of his wife’s paycheck is not only controlling, he is selfish and emotionally abusive. Sure, he THINKS its working because she has no money available to her to get a divorce.
What a sad, disgusting way to view their financial set-up. He is ripping off the wife in a terrible way.
Read previous posts. 80% of her pay accounts for 10% of the bills. She has the better financial deal, its far from ripping her off.
If you love someone and can afford to pay for them – you should pay for them. You should want to pay for them anyway. A family where individual members all earn enough to support an entire family makes a mockery of those families all stuck in jobs they hate because they have no other choice.
We shouldn’t WANT jobs – that’s our capitalist programming. If you don’t need one there’s nothing in the world that should make you want one other than simple greed. If you married a rich person who won’t pay for you – divorce them because they’re clearly a twat.
It’s that simple.
Men who control the money in a marriage whether a woman does or doesn’t work or helps with their business have absolutely no business being in any relationship whatsoever! You are not a God, you are a puffed up selfish little boy with delusions of your greatness who enjoys bullying and abusing the one person you say you love and you’re really not fit to be a husband at all. I would even say you have narcissistic personality disorder! You probably imagine that you are some kind of hero too in that every time you dole out a little bit of money to your wife, you save the day and deserve some kind of special treatment, undying gratitude, and worship for it.
You don’t deserve to be lifted up nor are you entitled to have a woman as your little slave cleaning up after you, cooking for you, doing all your shopping, raising your children if you have any, or getting your rocks off! You have no clue about what being a real man is, a partner is, and that might be your mommies fault for teaching you to think that you are entitled to something you don’t deserve or don’t earn or that you should have the best of everything in life. You have no honor, no integrity, no class, no revelation, and definitely no heart. Exactly what was it that made your wife fall in love with you?
If you find yourself treating your wife to financial abuse then you need some serious counseling as to why you would subjugate her position of honor to one of servitude and disgrace and unworthiness and then you should get on your knees and pray to God for forgiveness of abusing what He gave to you! What part of partnership means Me Myself and I? oh look there’s the I in team inside the A hole !
a little pissed off but greatly enlightened
Have to agree, and I would say the guy described in the post was definitely in the wrong and sounds like the wife tried to resolve with things out to no avail.
However, as a younger “millennial” guy, I feel like the new generation of females are becoming more guilty of bad behavior in relationships than in the past and the pendulum is swinging in the other direction, maybe due to anecdotes such as these. E.g. want it all but aren’t bringing anything to the table, less work ethic, over-inflated sense of attractiveness, bail on a guy with no attempt to communicate issues, etc..
Honestly, I find a lot of the older women I have come across in my office environments more attractive overall than those my age for these reasons, but probably not practical.
Anyway, definitely agree that both partners should strive to be financially independent, and a stay at home partner should be compensated for duties performed.
Great article, but you missed something about IRAs. Spouses who file joint tax returns may contribute to a non-working spouse’s IRA. I hope you update the article to reflect this.
I’m a SAHD, but I’m already financially independent. My wife is still working because she enjoys it. I think if she works for 6 more years, she’ll be set for life. She’ll qualify for a pension and she’ll have that to fall back on in case anything happens.
We joined our finances and it’s working out well.
I agree with some of the commenters on the idea that separate accounts don’t make up for the need to communicate about how you spend money. Needing to not see your spouse’s spending doesn’t seem like a long term way to share values and goals.
Always had joint accounts – never had a problem. And doing it our way there are no secrets.
Good article although it’s not really about money-it’s about marriage. You can’t “force” your own belief system on another person no matter what you do. We have to be flexible, embrace and respect our differences. My wife and I don’t have a budget, we attempt to make smart financial decisions on a daily basis without depriving ourselves of our “wants”. I think a key is to keep your wants reasonable, responsible and focus on the values that you would like to live by and pass onto your kids. You can’t really put a budget or dollar value on that. I don’t agree with some of her purchases and she doesn’t agree with some of mine. Guess what-sometimes we have different opinions on other things. We discuss then move on to taking care and enjoying of our kids, our house, our lives. I’ve actually loosened up the purse strings a little in the last couple years and it’s much more enjoyable and if I have to work an extra few years because of it that’s fine as I like my job. In my view, it doesn’t matter who brings what money into the household. This view of this is my money goes against the spirit of marriage in the first place. Communication is the single most important skill in life, we then need to find some middle ground and it’s ok if you don’t 100% agree with the other person. With all that said, if you as a couple find a system that works, go for it, just don’t be so uptight about it! Life is messy!
There are a couple of good reasons to have separate accounts; 1) if one or both people want them for any reason, including feeling independent and 2) if there is one member of marriage who has a serious problem with self-control and spending and both people recognize it as a problem and agree that it needs to be addressed. With a separate account the person with a spending problem can be put on “an allowance.” Note that reason #2 is a self-conscious limiting of independence for the purpose of marital harmony.
What is described in the example above is a psychological and relationship problem of someone who has to feel in control at all times and in all areas of life and is dictatorial about it. The simple procedural fix of separate checking accounts would not have remedied that.
Great fan of your website and your advice. You have been very helpful, and even when I don’t agree I learn something.
This article is probably why I would never agree to being a SAH mom without being financially independent. I have seen too examples of husbands being controlling as a result of being the provider. Some of my friends mostly want a provider as a partner, but I’ve mentioned the downside countless times. I sincerely believe that money affects the power dynamic in any relationship (parents/children, romantic, and friendships) and we should always strive to be on equal footing. I also think that sometimes, even the kindest person can become controlling when money is involved.
My wife chose to give up her career to raise our kids and never returned to work though they are grown. We are both retired now though I still make 100% of our expenses with a one day a week hobby job. When my dad passed away I inherited a seven figure sum. Because we are equal partners I immediately put it in a joint account. She could walk away tomorrow with half of everything and never have a financial care. My ability to be a high earner came from being able to focus on work and having a happy safe home. Her frugal shopping and delicious meal prep kept our expenses down. Her example of running and tennis competition success showed our son and daughters what discipline and winning looked and felt like and they are all winners in life now as adults. Plus all the kids getting free college degrees was due to her guidance and the accountability she required in their schoolwork. She may not have earned an income but she made us a lot of money. She deserves at least half and I really don’t deserve her.
This was beautiful to read and how I hope that my husband and I think about finances throughout the rest of our lives. We have always viewed income and expenses as shared because we are a team. We each do things that contribute to our income and help us decrease expenses and feel no need to quantify who is doing more/less.
That’s beautiful , keep the love up! ❤️
A REAL MAN, who appreciates a REAL WIFE. Holy hell, it does exist! Appreciation for the thankless tasks many spouses do alone. A spouse who won’t take advantage of the other spouses kind, giving and self sacrificing nature!!!! SHAME ON ANYONE WHO DOESN’T WANT THE MOON FOR THE SPOUSE WHO IS EASILY TAKEN FOR GRANTED!!
Will you marry me?
My wife and I have always worked full time since out of college. We contribute equally to the household expenses and have separate accounts to spend our money anyway we see fit. We also happen to be on the same wavelength when it comes to spending and will never make a big purchase without consulting with each other first (regardless who is paying for it).
I do plan to, at some point in the next five years, walk away from my job. I do worry about the imbalance in income then. You raise a good number of points in this article. Maybe I should start conversations with my wife on how to get me financially compensated when i do work away from my job.
Great article, Sam. It really is a great show of love to help each other gain financial freedom, which may look very different from couple to couple.
In our case, my wife has student loans, so I pay the mortgage (also Bay Area) and insurance (home owners / earthquake and auto) so that she can pay off her loans as quickly as possible, while splitting the rest of the bills (electric/gas, internet, water, etc.). We openly talk about our finances to make sure neither of us feel like the other isn’t taking care of their own fair share based on our respective income.
My question, though, is about joint accounts: What are the benefits and why do folks feel the need to establish a joint account?
We never felt the need for a joint account and would only add a layer of complexity. We have our own accounts, distribute the bills as mentioned above, and are free to spend on what we want (though we’re both pretty thrifty). Perhaps it’s because we met in our late 20’s / early 30’s with established careers and lived together while dating before getting married? Nothing changed financially when we got married 4 years ago.
In any case, keep up the great work! I found your site a few weeks ago and have found your posts, as well as the community and their comments, very engaging! I hope to contribute myself going forward!
Hah! I had interpreted your title in a different light and thought you were going to argue for one’s partner to find their own source of income separate from your own in a show of tough love. So your proposal to ease a spouse’s financial disadvantage as an act of love was a nice surprise.
One of the advantages of having a partner is that you are a team. There are so many aspects to living a full life. Finances are a means to live, but then there are all those other aspects beyond money—in the broadest strokes: companionship, raising a family, maintaining a home, organizing a social life, etc—that make life worth living. It is easier to cover all that ground with two people in a unit vs. doing it solo. Each person brings something to the table.
Nice story. In the end, the controlling husband had only an illusion of control, because his wife always owned half anyway, and eventually his controlling ways led her to assert what was always hers by divorcing him. Separate accounts may also feed an illusion of separateness that doesn’t exist once you are married. Unless you have a prenup or the accounts are separate property (maybe a premarital asset, or an inheritance), then the “separate” accounts belong to the marriage, not the individual, regardless of whose name is on the account. I think it’s better to accept what marriage is and work together as much as possible, rather than fool yourself into thinking its “your” money or you can shield yourself from liability that your spouse incurs by banking separately.
My wife isn’t interested in finances. For her a big benefit of marrying was getting someone else to deal with all that. I try to get her to understand more about it but she isn’t interested. Mainly I’m concerned that if I died she would be in a big mess and fall victim to some bad financial advisers.
On the other hand, I just let her spend whatever she wants and only occasionally make vague comments like “our spending is rising too fast”. This seems to work for us.
I say each person has their own spending money budget. Anything outside of that budget or exceeding the spending money amount needs to be discussed and agreed on by both people. Do I believe that the guy referenced in the above article was 100% at fault? I doubt it. There are 2 sides to every story. Either way communication and agreements trump “equality”. There are many women(and probably many men) out there that don’t want to deal with the money or the bills and just want their spouse to take care of everything and make the budget. The specifics of how things are done is a case by case basis. However, communication and agreement is mandatory and never on a case by case basis.
When you have a healthy income, a spouse needing to ask permission for spending tiny portions of your income is not healthy. Really asking permission for anything is not all that healthy. Much better for both to agree to discuss major financial decisions, and let each partner drive their own $100 purchases as they see fit.
If you feel you need to give your wife permission to spend $100, you probably shouldn’t have married her.
I’m in my late 30’s, semi-retired and about to get married: some good lessons to be learned here.
We don’t have or feel a need for separate accounts – mine is her and hers is mine.
But we have adequate money to Max out our 401K spend all we want and save the rest.
My wife made about $30,000 and is 50 and self employed. Haven’t done taxes yet but almost a of the $30,000 will be going into her solo 401K once the amount is calculated.
If money is tight, I think separate accounts can be horrible. Both people should agree on all spending until you have your money right.
Wow, controlling person for sure. If I am guessing right, the husband’s miserly ways are his brand and the basis of his business. But imposing that on his spouse vs just himself would be a very poor choice. Bad for his public brand for sure.
Separating out accounts is a big help. You can’t change each other to one’s liking and it’s not fair to do so anyway. And opposites attract.
Thanks Sam. I was just noticing this article the other day. More millennials are choosing to become stay at home parents than Gen X. With more people considering staying at home to care for their children, it’s so important to think ahead about the far-reaching consequences of being a SAH parent.
https://www.fatherly.com/news/pew-study-more-millennials-stay-at-home-parents/
From my point of view, a SAH parent should have some side income, no matter how small. Even a few hours of work per week gives you a sense of self-worth and independence and helps you maintain your skills in case you choose to come back to the workplace.
I think this is a great post Sam. Too often women sacrifice a part of their careers by either working part time or staying at home; they then have to ‘catch up’. Good guys recognise this – a lot don’t.
I would agree. It depends on the spouse if they respect their decision to stay home and raise the kids. Good guys do respect any decision!
Great Post Sam! I don’t agree that having separate bank accounts gives financial independence, I think it actually gives an excuse to not be accountable to the person you have partnered with for life. Isn’t this why we get married?
To be with a smart wise person so that we can make decision together as opposed to separately? You find a lot of spouses hiding expenditure from their spouse or being dishonest with finances because they haven’t taken the time to create their “money culture”. What I mean is this, it’s not about how much money you’re spending but the principle of accountability when it comes to expenditure.
It doesn’t matter if my husband is spending $50 or $5,000, what matters is are we in agreement in principle of what he is buying or spending on. For example my husband loves tech gadgets, just the other day he came and sat next to me and said I need $130 to buy a new hard drive. Now the money was insignificant to our budget, the only reason why he came to me was he knows he sometimes over spends on his gadgets and so he asks my advice on if he thinks he really needs it.
Same with me, I spent 2 months looking at about 5 pairs of shoes because I my shoes are no longer working. Again the amount was insignificant but I trust him to give me good advice on if he thinks I need five pairs or shoes or not. The question is do you trust your spouse to ask what they think.
And by the way sometimes I don’t ask I just buy and my husband TRUSTS that I make wise decisions when it comes to our money. The trust takes work, and consistent consultation but after almost 8 years of being married it works like clock work and we have no insecurities concerning our money because we have agreement for our expenditure and the principles behind our spending.
Wow, well said!
Sounds good to me. Do both of you work? And if so, how do the incomes compare? Do you have children? Thx
PS I added paragraphs to your comment. Hope you don’t mind.
Yes we both work, our incomes are on par for the most part when you add everything up. Two kids two under two
My wife and I have been married 59 years. Yup, more years than most of you have been living. We supported each other through our education. We both have a Ph.D. degree. We both worked and raised a family. We retired and started an humanitarian service program in Guatemala (Educational scholarships). It continues as a 501c3 not-for-profit corporation. GREAT life! We are partners. Separate accounts was never even a consideration. We are happy in the living room, kitchen, bedroom and in the pocket book. Why? Because we trust each other and we TALK. Communication over the years has defined our mutual values, goals and living standards. If, over the years, you cannot “talk it out” than get help. If that doesn’t work than…..good luck on lasting 59+ years together. Finally, we talk about the posts on Financial Samurai and look forward to more posts on passive income and real estate crowdsourcing. Would be great to hear from people who are in their “later years of retirement”.
That was a story about a controlling partner, not necessarily an issue over shared accounts. She was right to divorce him, he was not hearing her or being a good partner. Shared accounts doesn’t mean that anyone has more power. My husband and I have had shared accounts for 17 years. He is the breadwinner, I am (mostly) a Stay at home mom. My husband earns the income and I manage our bills and investments. If he wants to buy new running gear, we talk about it and then he buys it. If I want to go away with friends, we talk about it and then I go do it. In 17 years the only fights we’ve had over money were when times were lean and stress got the best of us. We are a unified front, have shared goals, and it just makes sense for us to manage everything together. Having individual accounts would feel weird and uneccesary to both of us. Why would you want joint accounts if you’re working toward the same goals?
In today’s age it can be strange to go from being completely independent as a career person to being a stay at home parent without a regular income. It certainly is a full time job so one way that might help the stay at home spouse is to calculate the value of the hours put in as a caretaker and add a premium for being a parent vs a nanny.
The biggest thing people that are “money obsessed” and married is that the most important relationship to nurture is the home one. The quickest way to lose 1/2 your precious assets is to get divorced.
In this letter, the former husband was picking up pennies and stepping over dollars as the divorce likely caused him a far greater hit to his finances than if he just loosened the money control he had over his wife. Making that much a month and worried about $25 toy is taking to the extreme and in the end that caused him to loose 6-7 figures.
I do like the gesture of helping out the financially disadvantaged spouse. I actually paid off the balance of my girlfriend’s medical student loans and because of it she has a much better financial start in the world. She was incredibly appreciative as it was a decent balance at a fairly high rate of interest that would have set her back quite some time.
Great post Sam! Lots of wisdom here. I happen to know who wrote that letter to you and I’m not surprised it worked out that way. So sad. Honestly, his failure to figure his shit out reduces her husband substantially in my eyes…NOT good for his brand. Marriage has to be a genuine partnership, not one person imposing rigid rules on the other. Seems obvious when said aloud doesn’t it?! Shame he couldn’t see that. His emotional/financial immaturity was his downfall here; I hope he grows past it for a happier life.
In a way my situation is similar. My wife did a lot to support my very successful career (we married right out of college – 4 days after my last exam!) and so I firmly believe every bit of my success and high earnings is as much her’s as mine. We don’t keep separate accounts but only discuss purchases if they are over several hundred bucks. THen it’s as much to reality check ourselves as to “get permission” and it works both ways.
Feel like I already commented on this, but this just doesn’t hold water for everyone. Relationships and marriages are far too complex and emotion has a big say. What works for one couple may not work for another. Far too dynamic of a topic to put such boundaries on. Obviously the scenario above is not at all appropriate, but I can’t help believe that there are other underlying issues within the Marriage, and Finances my be both a partial cause and sympton. My .02. Keep up the good writing. Looking forward to an update on crowdsource real estate!
What is the downside to having your own account?
My spouse came from a much wealthier background than me. She spends more freely on things I would never spend money on. We used to fight about spending, but now we don’t as much because of separate plus joint accounts.
I agree with Cody; one size does not fit all in this case. I think it is fine if you want to have separate accounts but if the need isn’t there, why bother? It is just another account to manage and keep up with that may also involve extra costs. Again, perfectly fine for those who think they need it for whatever reason but not something I or my wife of 25 years have ever felt necessary.
We’ve been blessed that having money and how we spend it has not been an issue or an irritant in our marriage. Like I said, for others it may make perfect sense but this is not the “end all, be all” solution for everyone.
I agree with Cody. To each their own, but I personally believe a couple must be united in their money and goals. The letter posted does not indicate the wife needs her own money. It indicates her husband is controlling, and they are not on the same page financially.
Great advice on how to make sure both spouses are cared for in a relationship. Keeping each other financially independent together and separately is the best way to ensure financial frictions are minimized.
My wife and I each maintain side accounts for small portions of our paychecks. This gives us the freedom to make financial decisions we deem best suited to our needs and free from an audit by the other. The overwhelming majority of our net worth is kept in shared accounts with a shared purpose: (1) funding a secure retirement (maxing out our retirement accounts), (2) contributing toward a house down payment fund, and (3) building our net worth through after-tax investment accounts. Our primary focus has been building (1) and (2) at the moment but we we will be sure to include (3) soon after buying the home.
Thanks for the tip. This sounds like a really simple way to split things up. This will give each partner freedom to do what they want with their spending money while also having shared goals.
I think the key is to have a shared plan but to have separate accounts for spending money. This would be a relatively small portion of the budget anyways. It is effectively working together towards your goals while not sweating the small stuff.