Financial Samurai

Well, I think the 3 month rule must have been created by the jewelry industry. (Are they an industry? Not sure. Anyway, they made it up.)

When I got engaged, my husband was driving his 1979 Camaro that he got in high school. (We were still in college.) I think he paid 2 thousand for that car, and I know my ring did not cost that. This rule was created too late for me. (Please, no horrible comments about my cheap ring. It was 21 years ago and he bought it using income from his college job. He did spend more than 3 months of his income from his part time college job!)

I think based on my comment yesterday you know how dumb I think it is to go into heavy debt for an engagement ring. It’s even worse when the woman demands a certain size ring.

[Reply]

Financial Samurai Reply:
September 16th, 2010 at 6:01 am

1979 Camaro is sweet! Well here’s the thing as I said for all those ladies who area already married. Point your husband to this article now and he will COMPLETELY agree to the conclusion if you are interested in an upgrade. Trust me on this!

[Reply]

Hope to Prosper Reply:
September 26th, 2010 at 9:31 am

I think DeBeers is making this stuff up. They aren’t an industry, they are a cartel.

We skipped the engagement ring altogether and just bought wedding rings. I thought about upgrading the stone in my wife’s ring. But, after watching Blood Diamond, I decided to skip it. I would rather spend the money on something useful and upgrade my wife’s car.

[Reply]

George Reply:
December 1st, 2010 at 12:59 pm

LOL, I love it! We should all plan on upgrading the wife’s car rather than the ring!

[Reply]

There really are some of us that don’t care about the size of our ring. I’m the kind of person who isn’t into jewelry, I only wear necklaces, bracelets, etc. on special occasions. My ring is very beautiful, but thrifty – just the way I like it.

And to be honest, there was a period for many, many months where I forgot to wear it! (It was on a ring holder in the medicine cabinet). I told my husband I’d much rather have just a band, much less to worry about and then I wouldn’t have to take it off for any reason at all. Also, I’ve accidentally poked him in the eye with my ring – so the bigger the ring, the more changes of eye injury!

So, if the chick is really picky about the ring and wants her soon be husband to go into debt for it (or spend 3 months of his salary on it!), I guess she’s a moron when it comes to finances, because soon that debt will be hers too.

[Reply]

Financial Samurai Reply:
September 16th, 2010 at 7:13 pm

I don’t believe you! j/k. I guess when you live in dense cities, and are surrounded by wealth, it’s hard not to care about engagement rings and jewelry.

Good last point!

[Reply]

“What kind of nut came up with that idea?” De Beers.

[Reply]

I just spent about 3 weeks of net income to buy an engagement ring. Ironically, I had to convince my girlfriend that I would not buy her a cubic zirconia. I ended up telling her that i wasn’t willing to pay for something that would only last a couple years before it got trashed (she didn’t know the lifespan of cz).

The thought of 3 months of gross or even net pay is dumb… Unless you have the house you want, the investments you need, the cars you want, and the childrens college paid for.

[Reply]

Financial Samurai Reply:
September 16th, 2010 at 2:29 pm

Word! Although I’m curious to know the cost of your car?

[Reply]

engin33r Reply:
September 17th, 2010 at 2:32 pm

I haven’t bought a car in 9 years… Back then I bought it used for ~12k.

I did help the now fiancée to pay off hers… Since we’ve now switched cars (she drives significantly further) I guess the current cost of the car I drive is about 14k. Mine is only worth peanuts now but since she drives 80+ miles a day we don’t feel like putting that onto a newer vehicle.

[Reply]

Financial Samurai Reply:
September 17th, 2010 at 3:25 pm

She deserves a $12,000 ring! There are no if ands about it! If you can afford to buy a 12K car 9 years ago, you can certainly pay $12K for a ring if she requests it. So simple!

JCLII Reply:
March 20th, 2012 at 11:58 am

Are you f*cking serious?

This is brilliant. Totally brilliant.

It makes a ton of sense. Obviously there are plenty of exceptions to the rule… but by and large this is a guide I can live with.

I think my wife would even agree.

maybe.

[Reply]

Shoot, my ring isn’t even a carat. What does this say about my hotness?! I wonder where clarity and quality would fit into this whole picture.

[Reply]

Financial Samurai Reply:
September 16th, 2010 at 2:28 pm

That you are the hottest woman in the house at least? :)

How does your ring cost compare to the purchase price of his car?

[Reply]

Not everything has to be a rule. Do the right thing and if you have a girl who critques the ring. GET OUT NOW AND SAVE YOURSELF DIVORCE FEES.

[Reply]

Financial Samurai Reply:
September 16th, 2010 at 2:26 pm

You are wrong Evan. Everything has rules and big govt is going make sure that there will be legislation of who you get to marry, how many kids you have, and when you can go to the bathroom!

[Reply]

All these rules and systems could drive a person bats. I think if 2 people have found each other and truly want to live with each for all time, that is an amazing enough thing. Anything above and beyond that – money, rings, weddings is inconsequential. The only problem I see is if one of them isn’t truly committed.

[Reply]

Financial Samurai Reply:
September 16th, 2010 at 7:14 pm

That’s why I have introduced only ONE rule! That is the Car Rule For Engagement Ring Buying! If the guy rides a Huffy bike to work, then a $200 engagement ring fo u!

[Reply]

savvysavingbytes Reply:
September 17th, 2010 at 7:54 am

How’s about if he’s a New Yorker and doesn’t own a car as most New Yorkers
don’t? I guess it’s ziltch ring time then…

[Reply]

Financial Samurai Reply:
September 17th, 2010 at 8:02 am

How much is a monthly metro card?? New York average is 2 carats, so that is the baronet for those living on Manhattan!

How come the diamond industry is the only one to perpetrate this mathematical tripe, let alone get gullible people to buy into it? The guy who installed my pool should have tried something similar: “A decent pool should cost you at least half a year’s salary.” Or “You don’t want to pay less than 2 days’ wages for a pair of shoes.”
I think everyone should dedicate 10% of their waking hours to reading my blog (and Sam’s, of course.)

[Reply]

Financial Samurai Reply:
September 16th, 2010 at 7:14 pm

I think it’s b/c there are so many pitfalls in buying a diamond engagement ring, that the industry is trying to simplify things.

It’s all brilliant marketing and manipulation!

[Reply]

That was an awesome commercial! Very clever… I also wish I could type that fast:)

But more on topic, I agree with you 100%. I am that second guy that you mentioned. I bought my car for $1100 at a public auto auction.. Granted I don’t make $300,000, but still, I could afford something more. I have no intention of spending any astronomical amount on a ring. I’m sure If I had an extra $10,000 towards a down payment on a house she would be a lot more happy than if the ring was a bit bigger. And honestly, I don’t want to marry a girl who cares THAT much about the ring size anyway…

[Reply]

Financial Samurai Reply:
September 17th, 2010 at 6:58 pm

Just don’t bring your girl to NYC, SF, or LA and you will be safe! $1,100 for a ring ain’t bad!

[Reply]

No matter what the definition, I guess I’ve been stiffed by about 50%. Okay, now you’re making me look at diamonds. I also didn’t know the average diamond size in Boston is that big. I can’t say I noticed..in my crowd, the average is about 1 carat.

[Reply]

Financial Samurai Reply:
September 16th, 2010 at 7:15 pm

Have fun diamond shopping! Congrats on convincing your husband to get something new, if that is what you wish. I’m positive you will agree with the thesis of this article!

[Reply]

Mike Hunt Reply:
September 16th, 2010 at 7:44 pm

I like the car definition.

Since I don’t have a car my wife should be very happy at getting a $1000 ring!

-M

[Reply]

Sandy L Reply:
September 17th, 2010 at 2:13 am

I was completely joking about diamond shopping…although I did go online to see
how much a 1.8 Carat diamond is going for these days.

I like my rock. I wouldn’t even think of upgrading until about 10 other things are paid for first.

And then, I’d probably think of better things to spend money on.

haha funny post. That’s a great commercial too. I can’t imagine spending $20000 for jewelry but I like how you parallel cars to engagement rings. I bet most couples have never thought about that!

[Reply]

1) I think the car rule is to generous – I propose 1/2 of the original price of his car.

2) Based upon the 3 month buying rule my wife got about 10% of what she should have. Instead of buying a diamond ring. I bought her a ring with an opal in the middle and 2 smaller diamonds surrounding it. Her birth stone is opal and mine is diamond. I told her it was me giving her a big hug and that’s the story i’m sticking with! BTW, my wife still thinks I overspent as she did not want a ring at all.

3) I totally agree with the comment about the debt incurred to purchase an expensive ring is debt the wife takes on. Even if there is no debt incurred, it is that much less money the couple has to do “important” things with. Debeers – the best marketing company in the world!

[Reply]

Financial Samurai Reply:
September 17th, 2010 at 6:59 pm

Nah, not half. Well, the full car price is the MAX you should spend, and something that is totally justifiable since the guy spent so much money on their own car!

[Reply]

What if he leases his car — how do you measure against that? Ha ha.

There should be no “rules” when it comes to engagement rings or gifts. Buy what you can afford and what you want. Too much judgment on these things.

[Reply]

Financial Samurai Reply:
September 17th, 2010 at 7:00 pm

Same thing! If he leases a $50,000 car, he can afford a $50,000 ring if that is what she wants! He can always pay for the ring in installments of $1,000 a month :)

[Reply]

David M Reply:
September 18th, 2010 at 1:02 am

If the girl is asking for a $50,000 ring – maybe he can lease that ring as there seems like ther is a good chance he marriage is not going to last long. :)

[Reply]

I never heard of so many rules for engagement ring purchases! And I must admit that many of them are crazy! I bought my wife a beautiful 1 carat ring last year and she loves it. Unfortunately, we now live in Boca Raton and I think there is a new rule around here… rings are worth $10,000 times more than your age. She still loves her ring though. I agree with Penny, “buy what you can afford.” I paid cash for her ring and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. http://www.lifeandmyfinances.com

[Reply]

In addition to saving for college for my kids, I better start saving money for my son so he can afford to get engaged someday!!!

And to think, at one time families use to provide a dowry (bribe) for the husband to marry their daughter.

The world is a crazy place.

[Reply]

Financial Samurai Reply:
September 18th, 2010 at 8:33 am

Better let your son be a man and pay for his own engagement ring Don-san! No living in the basement at home!

[Reply]

I just have one rule (and yes I am married)

My future wife would have to be happy with twist tie or a diamond, because what made her happy was not the ring but me.

I think people get too caught up in the material part of engagements, the reality is that she is marrying you and the ring is only a symbol of your commitment–the value is in the commitment not in the diamond.

And in case you are wondering, I did get her a diamond ring and had it hand crafted to a design I drew on some paper. But she should have been happy with a twist tie :)

[Reply]

Financial Samurai Reply:
September 18th, 2010 at 8:32 am

Are you sure it is you that is making her happier and not the ring??? j/k

[Reply]

sounds like the Hallmark and holidays story . . .

but women and diamonds . . . it’s a match made in heaven and will likely go on eternally lol

[Reply]

This post doesn’t bode well for me….

My own view though is 1 month of net should be fine unless you are bling bling. Standards might be different if you’re with a gold digger, too.

[Reply]

Hm. I just wear a wedding band. DH made my engagement ring out of a dowel rod. I guess he didn’t buy his first car either– it was an ancient hand-me-down from his parents.

[Reply]

This is, with out any doubt in my mind, the funniest thing I’ve ever read.

If you are in love and are asking someone to spend the rest of your life with you, that act, that emotion, is more then any ring can show. You are “buying in” to a societial convention. It’s hard not to care because you’ve been conditioned to “think” that it means love. You are telling people that its normal to spend a TON of money on a gift so that she can brag to her friends. The ring is NOT a symbol if two people are confident in their love for each other. It is shown in many, MANY, other ways.

Even as a financially minded person, we all get WAY too caught up in putting a dollar value on everything. NETWORTH for example is not what you are worth…. it is just what you have. My bestfriend has a magnetic personality. Can make anyone, really anyone laugh. I know this because he donotes his time to the childern’s hospital to spend time making kids laugh. At 35 he makes 29K/yr. In my opinion, he is worth much more then someone making 6 figures. Or someone who writes this kind of drivel…..

The Rule for men is. If she loves you. The ring doesn’t matter.

[Reply]

Financial Samurai Reply:
December 1st, 2010 at 9:24 pm

Too bad your rule doesn’t work, b/c WOMEN make the rules when it comes to rings and love!!

[Reply]

I can say that I paid 3 months worth of salary for my wife’s ring. This was actually by accident. The asked what amount I was comfortable spending, and then showed me rings that were that much or less. The sales person was fantastic, and she really worked for that sale (although it was only $3,100 or so at the time). I literally was in the jewelry store for a combined time of almost 10 hours trying to make sure that I really liked the particular stone and setting that I thought she’d enjoy (and yes I changed the style of stone one time).

Would I do that again … absolutely, she is well worth it! And no, we didn’t go into debt (it was paid for before the wedding day, along with the wedding itself, and the honeymoon). And even after staying at home with the our 4 kids for over 10 years now, I still think it was well worth it.

[Reply]

Financial Samurai Reply:
December 1st, 2010 at 9:23 pm

I think you subconsciously followed the rule without even knowing it!

[Reply]

Sam, I remembered reading the titled last week and vowed to return! VALUES play the determinant. I don’t value lots of cash spent on jewelry and I never have. If my husband wants to spend more than a couple of hundred bucks on jewelry for me, I throw a fit. I’d rather go to Brazil or Puerto Rico than flaunt a gaudy ring! But that’s me!

[Reply]

An engagement ring nowadays, need not to be that hot or expensive. As long as you can use it to represent the relationship you have with a person, that is enough already. But of course, there should be a great effort to get that ring. As for me, I used almost 3 months of my paycheck for my wife’s engagement ring. LOL

[Reply]

Hum, interesting rule, FS. I have just a few questions:

1. What if your fiancee picks out a ring that costs much, much less than any of the cars that you’ve owned? My fiancee picked out her own ring with fairly small diamonds that only cost about $200, but which seemed to love.

2. What are the rules about the price of a replacement ring in case the woman loses her ring? (Yes, this did happen to my fiancee.) Is it the cost of another car all over again, or can you downgrade since you’ve already shown your true feelings the first time around? Is it up to the woman to cover the replacement ring costs?

3. What if you buy your fiancee a car? (You guessed it, another story from my own life.) If we’re using a car as the gauge for ring buying, can you swap one purchase for the other? If you help your woman buy a car, is she then obligated to buy you a ring?

[Reply]

Financial Samurai Reply:
December 1st, 2010 at 9:22 pm

Roger,

Man, tough questions! Why ya gotta be so complicated? :)

1) Obviously you have to take the difference between the cost of your car and the price of the ring and buy her a gift to make things equal!

2. If she loses it, insurance takes care of it!

3. Buying your fiancee a car is not allowed!

[Reply]

Common Sense Reply:
December 13th, 2011 at 11:56 pm

Ok, financial samurai, you are a complete moron. This person makes 3 very good points about the many flaws in your “rule”. I am not engaged, and while I would love for my boyfriend to spend $20k (the price of his car) on an engagement ring, I have common sense. Why would a man have to work as hard for an engement ring and make monthly payments like he did for a car? Oh and “buying your fiancé a car is not allowed”?! Are you freaking kidding me?!? You obviously are not intelligent enough to come up with answers that actually make sense, or even answer his questions for that matter. You should change your name.

[Reply]

Financial Samurai Reply:
December 14th, 2011 at 6:22 am

Thanks. And you wonder why you aren’t engaged….

I like the way you think! The car rule is a smart way to go. I sometimes wish I spent a little more than I should’ve on my wife’s ring. She loves it though so I guess it was worth it but every time I see it on her finger, I still see the dollar figure. I spent less than the societal rule though fortunately :)

[Reply]

Financial Samurai Reply:
December 1st, 2010 at 6:34 pm

You are happy because you see it reminding you of how little you spent? Sweet! :) The gift that keeps on giving. So long as she’s happy that’s all that matters!

[Reply]

I would look for an inexpensive car, say 1000 to 1500 dollars. Just something to get you back and forth to work or school. In that time I would consolidate all your bills to get your credit standing in the green. This is very simple to do and will lower your monthly payments to creditors, and give you a better interest rate. Only one payment for all your creditors. What a great feeling that is. And work your way up, getting things paid off and such. This is key, because you don’t want to fall back into the same hole that you are in know. Get that credit rating up, get those bills paid off, and get you a car that is reliable, yet inexpensive. You don’t want to get a new car and have a huge car payment, then you wont be able to pay your other bills. This has happened to me plenty of times. you just need to think straight, have a goal in mind, and go after it. Everything will fall into place. Good luck, and I hope this helped you

[Reply]

I simply love this post, funny to read but still informative!
@Husbands to be: time to sell your car for a cheaper one! You’ll save money on both sides!

[Reply]

Financial Samurai Reply:
December 1st, 2010 at 6:23 pm

Bingo! Huffy bicycle baby!

[Reply]

Well, I don’t know about anyone else, but it’s quite obvious that the size of the ring is directly correlated to how much he loves you. So, if he gets you the 0.25 carat diamond, he clearly doesn’t love you as much as the guy that would buy the 1.0 carat ring. Plus, everyone knows that the ring should be large enough to guarantee covering at least the first 3 months worth of rent when she sells it after the divorce. Duh!

[Reply]

Financial Samurai Reply:
December 1st, 2010 at 9:20 pm

Hahahaha, nice. So…. how big of a ring do you rock or want??

[Reply]

Sandy @ yesiamcheap Reply:
December 1st, 2010 at 9:39 pm

Marriage has been proven to shorten the lifespan of women, so I’m pretty sure that I want to be unmarried for a while longer. But if someone wants to buy me a “promise” ring of at least 2 carats (being in NY and all) I wouldn’t say no. A girl has to have standards.

[Reply]

Financial Samurai Reply:
December 1st, 2010 at 9:44 pm

Oh wow! I had no idea married women die younger! Would love to read more! This will help a lot of guys who have girlfriends who pressure them constantly!

Sandy @ yesiamcheap Reply:
December 1st, 2010 at 9:56 pm

I’ve got you covered. “Marriage helps
husbands to an extra 1.7 years, but it knocks 1.4 years off the average wife’s lifespan, according to the study of more than 100,000 people across Europe.” I’m not giving up that extra year just yet…unless there’s 5 carats attached…okay, maybe 4.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/a467782.html

We had our rings tattooed on for our 10th anniversary. The 1/4 carat diamond engagement ring he bought me in college sits on display, next to our wedding photos now. I was never one for jewelry, and this was more than big enough – anything else would have looked tacky on me, and I’d have stopped wearing it long before the tattoo.

[Reply]

I proposed to my girlfriend this past October and this is how it all was approached….

1) We are living off one income while she is in a masters program. So, we are broke. We decided under $2k was more than enough. This would buy a beautiful half carat.

2) I decided to only buy the ring if I made the money outside of our normal budget. I do a few things online and was able to earn enough to cover the ring as well as a trip to SoCal on a budget to propose.

3) I saw the movie Blood Diamond a few years back and decided then to go with a blood-free company. I went with Brilliant Earth in San Francisco and the ring buying experience was perfect.

4) This whole time, we knew affording our normal livelihood was more important than a physical sign of affection. Even if we made a ton more, we had decided that the rock was not going to make our relationship stronger. Our actions and choices would.

5) This was the result…. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rXJGw4rHw4

David Damron
LifeExcursion

[Reply]

Sandy @ yesiamcheap Reply:
December 1st, 2010 at 9:56 pm

How sweet! Congrats on adding an extra year to your life and making a video for your children to see. :)

[Reply]

Financial Samurai Reply:
December 2nd, 2010 at 6:59 am

Good stuff man and well done! Hey, as long as she’s happy, that’s all that matters. I wanted to turn the post around to focus on the guy, since it’s often the girl who seems to want the ideal wedding and ring.

How did you frame the camera smoothly without her wondering wassup?

[Reply]

I too think the 3 month rule is ridiculous and I think you might have a point there about how materialistic a guy is. I know a girl who rides her bike everywhere and her husband does too. They are not materialistic by any means and her ring only cost $900. Another friend I know grew up materialistic. Her fiancé drove a civic but still got her a huge Tiffany ring because she had been asking for one. Two polar opposites :)

[Reply]

Financial Samurai Reply:
December 2nd, 2010 at 6:51 am

Wow. All he has to to is tell her honey about his honda civic! That said, new honda civics are $20,000 so….. $20,000 can buy a pretty nice H, VVS2, 1.6 carat Tiffany’s!

[Reply]

While I do agree that there are quite a few people in our society who are this shallow, I disagree with you stating that all women want huge rings.

My case is the perfect example. My husband proposed to me after buying a condo at the ripe old age of 23. He, at 23, put 20% down on our home. That’s $45,000… and it cleared out almost all of his savings. We live in an extremely affluent suburb of Washington, DC, and for this chunk of change we have a 768 sq ft condo. Small maybe, but it is our home.

He proposed to me just several months later, with a beautiful .78 carat ring. In this area, women always wave their 2+ carat sparklers, but not me. And why am I so proud?

Because my husband said that before he could ask my father for m hand in marriage, he felt he needed to do it right. And by do it right, he needed to buy a home to show my father he could support me. So my ring is less than a month of his salary.

I love him more than anything… and his 2000 Jetta. Love exists for those of us smart enough to find it.

[Reply]

Financial Samurai Reply:
December 10th, 2010 at 10:58 am

Oh no, I think you are misinterpreting the farcical nature of this post. At the heart of everything, it’s about tying ridiculous materialistic desires of one, and allowing the other to match ifthey wanted to!

I’m all for something indxpensive and quaint that works for you!

Best

[Reply]

what terrible logic. women have cars too and the price point for a ring starts way lower than a car.

$10,000 will buy you a REALLY nice engagement ring.
$10,000 will buy you a 2002 honda civic with 80,000 miles….

[Reply]

Financial Samurai Reply:
December 10th, 2010 at 10:55 am

I find a 2002 Honda Civic to be an extremely sexy car!

$10,000 car means you’re making at leas $100,000. Not bad!

This post is for silly guys who can afford cars, let alone $50,000 cars!

[Reply]

I got a question. My husband’s mother bought him a corvette. What happens when another family member buys your fiancee or husband a car? My husband bought me a car for my business, which I think was about 17k a few years back. How can I ask him for a 17k diamond ring? My ring size is only 4.5. A 17k ring would look ridiculous on my finger. Seriously! I think I could get a 3 carat for that price because his friend is a gemologist who gets diamonds from S. Africa. I couldn’t even imagine getting a diamond that big because it would look ridiculous on a small finger. Now a 1.5 carat diamond would be fine, and of course, I’ve requested that size (an upgrade) for our 25th anniversary, but a 17k ring would look really ridiculous on a very small finger. I think the size of your finger also has something to do with it. I have another ring I wear, which I got from my grandmother, and it’s huge. It’s a little over two carats total. I couldn’t wear that much bling on two fingers anyway. But back to my question: What happens if the mother-in-law buys the fiancee or hubby a car, especially a nice one like a corvette?

[Reply]

Financial Samurai Reply:
December 18th, 2010 at 5:09 pm

You can get an Internally Flawless (IF) 1.2 carat ring for $17,000 actually. I’m suggesting the car value be a MAXIMUM ceiling that the wife can ask for. A wife doesn’t have to ask for that much though :)

[Reply]