F you money. FU money. F*ck you money. It’s all the same. F You Money is having enough money to tell others to F Off without fearing financial repercussions.
I’m sure some of you have dreamt of telling your annoying micromanager to F Off. But you can’t because you still want that raise and promotion.
If you spend any amount of time online, you probably want to tell some folks to F Off as well. But given online is generally forever, you tend to hold your tongue.
The Origin Of F You Money
The term F You Money seems to have first been mentioned by Johnny Carson in a Rolling Stones interview in 1979 and then by Burt Reynolds in the 1986 movie, Heat.
I’ve heard the term since the 1990s on Wall Street. When Goldman Sachs finally went public in 1999, there were plenty of partners with F You Money walking around the halls.
In fact, I still remember randomly bumping into a 20-year partner in Montreal post IPO. He was at a coffee shop on a date with a young woman other than his wife. I was there taking an Asian company management around visiting Caisse de dépôt, a Canadian money manager.
I guess the partner said F You to his marriage! Or maybe not. We never discussed the encounter upon our return to HQ in NYC. That might have been a career-limiting move.
How Much Is Considered F You Money?
Based on over 8,500 votes in the Financial Samurai poll below, $5 million is the #1 vote-getter to feel financially free. To be clear, $5 million is the minimum net worth hurdle, not the maximum.
I personally chose $10 million because $10 million is what’s necessary to generate ~$240,000 in risk-free income based on today’s risk-free rate of return. However, by taking slightly more risk, $10 million should be able to generate up to $400,000 a year to live the F You Lifestyle.
Therefore, between $5 million to $10 million seems like a reasonable minimum range before you can consider having F You Money. The more expensive of a location you live in, the higher the hurdle and vice versa. Just don’t forget to keep up with roaring inflation.
Loading ...Once You Have F You Money, It’s Hard To Tell Others To F Off!
The interesting thing I’ve discovered once you obtain F You Money is that it’s still extremely difficult to tell others to F Off!
Everybody fantasizes about telling someone who wronged them in the past to go screw themselves, but once you get to this level of wealth it’s more common to turn more apathetic than belligerent. Society has an incredible way of keeping people in check.
I’ve been tempted to tell internet trolls and the Internet Retirement Police who judge me online while providing no value to the conversation to F Off. However, instead, I usually defer to a more inquisitive response.
Using their perspective, I can often write new comment commentary posts with a new theme to keep the party going! Hooray!
The Benefits Of Having F You Money
There’s an old saying that goes, “hell is other people.” If you think about all the pain and suffering in your life, it’s generally due to someone else. The sheer act of telling someone to F Off is a response to getting rid of people who make your life miserable.
The following are five incredible benefits of having F You Money.
1) You stand up for what’s right more often.
There’s a lot of crap in the world that goes unchallenged because people are afraid of the repercussions. How many times have you bit your tongue because you were worried about the consequences?
When you have F You Money, you are more confident to speak your mind when you see an injustice because your survival doesn’t depend on your reputation, a person, or a company. There would probably be less bullying, racism, sexism, and other discriminatory words and actions.
Think about all the people who have to toe the line, even if they disagree with their company’s ethics, because they depend on their income and healthcare benefits to survive. How unfortunate.
2) You care less about what other people think.
Caring less about what people think is a type of superpower. Instead of desiring fame and recognition, you desire peace and anonymity. It feels liberating to have insults and insinuations roll off your back like water off a duck. There’s less desire to try and get even or one up your dissenter because you’re already set for life.
Insults are usually hurled by unhappy people who want what you have. They are insecure and hope to bring you down to their level so they can feel better about themselves. Jealousy is a tough feeling to overcome. Showing neutrality or even compassion is more common for folks with F You Money. The reason is because every insult is a reminder of how good you have it.
3) You become less afraid to fail.
I’m a perpetual failure in many things because I keep trying new things. Once you have F You Money, your failures aren’t going to crush you anymore. Instead, your failures just beat up your ego until it naturally re-inflates because your default setting is a good life with lots of freedom. When you’re less afraid to fail, your chances to succeed at new things go up.
Think about all the highly educated people who go the safe route and get a job they don’t particular like. Even though they went to a private university and got an MBA at another private university, they have a hard time starting their own business, which is what some really want.
Why? Because they invested too much in their education. As a result, they just end up working for someone else for too long and often regretting their decision.
4) You hang out with people because you want to, not because you need to.
There are times when you need to go spend time with someone you may not particularly like because you need something from them e.g. business, connections, a job, etc. When you have F You Money, you have the freedom to only hang out with people you like. Everybody else be damned.
Think about all the people online who join a herd because they find safety in numbers. They end up creating one big echo chamber where everybody looks alike, talks alike, and thinks alike. Is there any wonder why cults are formed and people lose the ability to think for themselves?
Being able to think independently may be one of the best benefits of having F You Money. Since you’re no longer afraid to think differently, you do.
5) People don’t piss you off as much anymore.
The only people who piss me off are those who are perpetually late, those who say one thing and do another, racists, and really bad drivers.
But once you have F You Money you stop hanging out with such people because you don’t have to. As a result, less people piss you off! Even if someone inevitably disappoints you, you don’t care as much because you don’t need or want anything from them.
If you’re early on your journey to F You Money, then try to accumulate at least $300,000. $300,000 is the minimum net worth needed where you finally start to feel a little more financially free.
Once you get to $300,000 you set your sights immediately on $500,000. And once you get to $500,000, getting to a $1+ million net worth is an inevitability.
Having More Money Doesn’t Change Your Core
Money simply amplifies who you ALREADY are. If you’re like most people, then having F You Money isn’t going to suddenly turn you into an asshole. Only people who are already assholes tend to become bigger assholes once they have money!
Having F You Money actually has the opposite effect for most people. Having money makes normal people less agitated, less insecure, and much more appreciative of what they’ve got. In other words, if you want to naturally be kinder, get richer! I promise you will become less jealous, more appreciative, and more empathetic.
Why else do you think some people swing so far left in the political spectrum once they have money? Once you’ve got yours, it’s easier to say and do good things. Why else do wealthy people, especially those who achieved their wealth through inheritance, try and give back as much as they can?
Having F You Money brings some guilt into the individual’s psyche because the money wasn’t earned. These folks realize they are one of the lucky ones because goodness knows there are plenty of other more deserving people out there who aren’t as lucky.
The more money you have beyond what is required to be happy, the more you have a desire to give back. You actually feel bad for those who hate you the most. After all, outsized wealth is mostly due to luck.
In fact, once you have F You Money, you might find it harder to tell people to F Off because you become more aware of how good you have things.
Loading ...Who Do You Want To Save F You To?
I’ve wanted to tell some of my old bosses in finance to F Off before, but I never ended up doing so. I don’t blame my direct boss for giving me a terrible bonus my final year in finance. Conditions were tough and he enabled me to get a severance package that paid out over five years. I also don’t blame one boss for micromanaging me based out of New York City because I was becoming more of a renegade.
Think about all the people you want to say F You to. Do they really matter?
The severance package was the #1 reason for giving me the confidence to retire early and work on my online endeavors. In turn, it has ballooned to something greater than I ever expected. I’m thankful a difficult boss and a tough economic environment spurred me to change my life.
At the end of the day, your financial independence number is not real if you don’t do something about a suboptimal situation. F You Money may be required to give you the courage to change. But hopefully, most of us will change for the better long before needing a ton of money.
Thankful To The Gatekeepers And The Detractors
Even after all the rejections I experienced, I’ve got no desire to tell my rejectors to F Off because they all have their own issues. Even the nastiest folks need empathy because we often project our problems onto others.
We should be more thankful to our gatekeepers and detractors. Without them, life might be too easy. And when life is too easy, we stop appreciating what we have.
Oh, but I do want to say this. For those of you who don’t pick up your dog’s poop and allow your dogs to bark incessantly at night or in the early hours of the morning, F You! Please be more considerate.
For everybody else, let’s have peace on Earth. After this damn pandemic and now the tragic war in Ukraine, being more forgiving and nicer sounds like a good idea.
Generating More F You Money With Real Estate
Real estate is my favorite way to build wealth and make more F You money. It is a tangible asset that is less volatile, provides utility, and generates income.
In 2016, I started diversifying into heartland real estate to take advantage of lower valuations and higher cap rates. I did so by investing $810,000 with real estate crowdfunding platforms. Now real estate generates about $150,000 in F you passive income.
Take a look at my favorite real estate investing platform Fundrise. Fundrise enables accredited and non-accredited investors to diversify into real estate through their private eFunds. Fundrise has been around since 2012 and invests primarily in single-family and multi-family rental properties, my favorite asset class.
My real estate portfolio consistently generates over $150,000 a year in passive income. That’s a lot of F You money the enables both my wife and I to be stay at home parents.
Recommendation Once You Have F U Money
One of the best ways to accumulate F You Money is by tracking your wealth with Personal Capital. It is a free online platform which aggregates all your financial accounts in one place so you can see where you can optimize your money.
Before Personal Capital, I had to log into eight different systems to track 25+ different accounts to manage my finances on an Excel spreadsheet. Now, I can just log into Personal Capital to see how all my accounts are doing. This includes my net worth and my cash flow.
The best feature is their Portfolio Fee Analyzer. It runs your investment portfolio(s) through its software in a click of a button to see what you are paying. I found out I was paying $1,700 a year in portfolio fees I had no idea I was hemorrhaging!
There is no better financial tool online that has helped me more to achieve financial freedom.
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I voted for other in the poll. I’ve had a few opportunities to stretch my “F U” legs over the years, but I am never aggressive or a jerk about it. I subscribe to the philosophy that the best revenge is a life well lived.
I do some part time consulting now in my retirement, and I’ve had a few customers attempt to speak to me aggressively. They get shut down in a hurry, it’s fun when they demand a meeting must take place next Tuesday & I tell them I won’t be available as I’ll be on the French Riviera attending a festival, but I say nicely that I’ll be sure to get back with them when I return.
I love checking in on this blog. It’s fun, folksy, true with facts, and usually wise. And most of this post fits the pattern.
But is this really true: (?)
“Why else do you think some people swing so far left in the political spectrum once they have money? Once you’ve got yours, it’s easier to say and do good things. Why else do wealthy people, especially those who achieved their wealth through inheritance, try and give back as much as they can?”
I’m pretty sure it’s not. The best analyst I know who links politics to wealth (and other factors) is Andrew Gelman at Columbia University. He’s my kind of geek. Anyhow, politics is mainly tied to your location (who you tend to hang out with) and $. And $ tends to push people toward the right, since they benefit from lower taxes. Now, lots else going on in California, and especially the Bay Area, but conditional on location, most everywhere (including Nor Cal), more $, more right wing. Those are the actual facts.
I’m less certain about the second part, but I believe I’ve seen a number of papers indicating that those who inherit their wealth are less giving than those who closer to self made. (I write “closer to self made,” because none of us is actually self made, right?).
But if you have evidence of either of these things I’d be grateful for the references.
Still: I do love your blog and am happy to see how successful you are with it.
This article posed a lot of interesting questions. I am saver by nature, but in the last few years have created an incrediably sucessful business. 4 years ago when I began our business we had a net worth of about 1m. In the past few years we have been able to save 4m in our after tax accounts and make other sizable investments and have raised our net worth outside of our business to about 6m.
We are currently investaging selling a signficant portion of our business with a handful of different PE firms and will likely have a couple offers to review next week, in addition to the one we already have. All of these offers will give us true F you money. 20m+ cash with 60% exit.
The last few years for us have been wild with our business consuming both of our lives and our business becoming incredibly sucessful. I am 35 and my wife is 33, she left corporate health care to join our small business. During the last few months I have done a lot of thinking on what is next and what I want to do with my life. My current dream is being a part of the team that builds a billion dollar company in our space, something yet to be done. I am young and do not want to retire. I love going to work everyday. I am having the time of my life scaling this business. We plan to have children within the next year or so. My wife wants less responsiblity in the business and my goal would be to assit in that manner, but we need more staff.
My father, who is also CFO of one largest banks, tells me if I take one of these deals I am making the largest mistake of my life. But there is a reason why half my 9 sibilings do not speak to him. He has an incrediably sucessful in his career, but is also a train wreck in every other part of his life. For example, he didn’t speak to me for a year when I turned down a job in corporate banking to go work in a friends small business 12 years ago. Since then, I have grown to be as close to him as you reasonably can and call him every week.
We are very blessed to live the life we lead today. To even have an opporunity or mulitple is life changing. Honestly I am not entirely sure we will accept one. It would have to be the right partner and opporuninty. A couple are very interesting and I believe we could build something great. Or atleast that is the goal.
I feel like the smart decision is the take a deal. But honestly sometimes I wonder sometimes what do I have to lose? I’ve already been way more sucessful at it then I ever imagined.
As I sit here on my yacht moored off the coast of Palermo I ponder… will the $100 million in my various liquid savings accounts be enough… will my free and clear portfolio of 73 single family homes in the Cupertino area suffice for providing the income stream needed in retirement?
These are the things that keep me up at night.
Hi to all,
First I want to confirm my basic aim = 1 million .
Second I want do describe my variants of investments:
200k in Europe, 100k in Australia, 100k in USA markets (shares) = 400 k all
100k in a basic home, 2 x 50k for small homes with land in Europe (Spain, Italy, Greece, Bulgaria, etc.) = 200 k all
100 k will be enough to play on marker with shares (short investments and sells) to achieve 2-5k/month (this is more than enough in East Europe to live like a king);
100 k will be as investment in new technology shares (and annual dividends will be for excursions in Europe and other destinations)
30-50k for transport (10-20 years old vehicle (Honda, Toyota – endurance) with a tent for camping) and AirBnB :)
100k for learning (something with PC support – maybe Linux administrator :) )
50k for any case!
I think its all = 1million , You have to believe that in my region with 3-4k/month income is enough for a family to live very good life and to be happy!
Best regards and enjoy Life!
Sounds like a good life to me! Know what you want, don’t want too much, appreciate what you have and fight on!
Here here on the FU to people who don’t clean up after their dogs in public areas or in front of other people’s homes. It’s so inconsiderate!
I definitely wanted to say FU to some clients at my old job who never said thank you and yelled at me for things out of my control. Although I never had the satisfaction of hanging up the phone on them or telling them to f off, I was able to save up enough money and turn my side hustles into a primary hustle and escape the grind to do my own thing thank goodness.
You can always send them and email or call them now to share your thoughts! Especially since they aren’t your clients any longer! In fact, you can share a story about them in your next post. It feels great!
For me, it’s more the ability to say “F this” rather than F U. Of course, there may be an implicit FU embedded in certain instances of “F this”.
I have been toying with early retirement since 2015, and have said “F this” on numerous occasions since. Some examples:
1. Negotiated a severance package and got the hell out of the most lucrative job I ever had in 2015 after my boss got pushed into “retirement” and the new boss was an unmitigated tool. This is when I first started considering early retirement – looked at the numbers and nope, would have been far too lean of a FIRE approach for my taste at that point. But I certainly had more than enough to take a risk and say “F this”.
2. Quit my next job after 2 years of dealing with an CEO who fancied himself as the next Buffett, but really was just a narcissistic wannabe with a serious case of ADD. Again, negotiated a nice exit (although not nearly as lucrative as the previous one).
3. Quit another job after 2 days when I realized the soul-sucking commute would make me miserable.
4. Up next: I work in finance & accounting, with a specific focus on publicly traded companies. I just read the SEC’s new proposed rules on climate-related disclosures. It is complete virtue-signaling make-work BS that will provide little or no value to investors. I have decided that I will never work on it. I will simply finally pull the trigger and walk away into early retirement if and when the new rules take effect. Fortunately, I’m now in a position for what many people might call Fat FIRE (it feels more like just “chubby” FIRE to me).
A lot of change in the past 7 years! But thank goodness for the bull market during this time period to give us more opportunities.
Go for it!
F U money to me is when you can afford to fight the powerful and not be ruined.
I disagree w/your assessment of 5 million. Of course I’m aware you live in a very high cost of living area though, I have 2 lifetime pensions that total just over 80K a year, half of which is tax free. I never made over 75K a year. I own 4 rentals which bring in a little over 3K a month after all rental mortgages are paid. My primary mortgage is a little over 2K a month. So I live mortgage free. I live just outside the Seattle area. Although not exactly SF level cost of living, but not cheap either.
Im 53, and wife is 54 and I retired at 47. Be smart with money and invest in real estate as early as you can, I started at 29. Live below your means and invest in real estate, retirement funds, etc and you will be set and able to leave a legacy for your family to continue on and build as I continue to build as always looking for more real estate as we are closing on another cash flowing rental in the first week of April. Life time pensions are a holy grail!
I agree lifetime pensions are the holy grail! Your pension is worth about $3 million. So add that to your net worth, and maybe you’re closer to $5 million than you think.
But you’re one of the lucky ones. The majority of us will not receive lifetime pensions at all.
Here’s my proposal on how to calculate the value of your pension.
Any children or parents to take care of?
Yes, I have a step-son, 19. He will inherit it all, only if he continues to be the great person he is. He will never be able to sell a property for the money. Can only sell a property out of the future trust to purchase via 1031.
I moved my parents in w/us after I retired. My dad passed away a little over a year ago. It is great to have been able to do this for them. Thankfully my mom is doing well.
If your estimate of my pension is worth 3 million than I’m already over 5 million, pushing 6 million. Keep up the great articles. I Have learned a lot since I found your articles a couple years ago! Thanks!
I’ve been working for 20 years now and my perception of FU money has changed now that I have more professional and personal experiences. It would be great to have enough money so that one doesn’t ever have to rely on an employer to pay the bills. However, it could be a long time before reaching that FU money goal. So, I think it’s also valid to have enough money to fund my life until I move onto the next great position/opportunity where my qualities, skills, and experience are valued. I’ve spoken to a few hiring folks at various organizations recently and they are having a difficult time filling positions because candidates are not qualified. Knowing that I’m a good employee and would be welcomed at other organizations allows me the option of not putting up with BS. Having a mini FU account is comforting. Don’t get me wrong, I’m diligently working on having enough FIRE funds but don’t want to be miserable, for years, in the meantime.
For sure, it is a balance. The best is to enjoy the journey and have enough financial security so that nothing can really bog you down for too long.
We got it caught up with certain financial figures bc it’s easy and people like me write about them!
But I also mentioned that $300,000 is the start feeling more financially free. It’s the journey that counts the most!
1) You stand up for what’s right more often.
2) You care less about what other people think.
3) You become less afraid to fail.
4) You hang out with people because you want to, not because you need to.
5) People don’t piss you off as much anymore.
Nailed it on all counts. I vested my pension last year and I’m unionized so I am in no danger of not being able to at least retire, regardless of what may come. I also only intend to work two more years. At that point, our take-home from passive income (not including investments) will exceed our current take-home. We also have a few million in our portfolio and I am the executor for a pair of wills for the older generation that will bring me a couple of million more. For various reasons, I was never really free to go start my own business, but I’ve proven pretty successful with both real estate and investing, despite starting with $300 after I graduated from a Midwestern university and joined the military.
That all means I’m pretty much immune to both carrots and sticks. I already make six figures so there is no promotion or pay raise that will especially tempt me at this point. No set of new skills I care to strive for so as to amplify my resume. And no threat that can worry me overmuch.
Getting that call to the director’s office used to be worrisome, even though it was usually just to receive a surprise performance bonus check. Now there is no sweat whatsoever. And if they want something that I have a problem with, or that is not feasible. I do say no, and tell them why. And I’m relaxed and possibly even amused by the whole thing.
On the other hand, there is no one I really care enough about to say the F word to. At some previous jobs perhaps, sure, but that’s water long gone over the dam.
Actually, you may be spot on with the 5 million figure, too. Using your “value of a pension” formula, we did go over that figure a while back–and that is just about where I started to feel that I was in a position where I could be a little more, uh, open in my opinions.
Cool. There’s definitely a benefit of writing based off first-hand experience! And then recording oh one feels and the pros and cons.
Flying private to me would be the best way to say F U. I haven’t done it yet but when I do there’s gonna be a middle finger sticking straight in the air!!
When you are flying private though, who are you saying F U too though? The birds? :)
Metaphorically speaking, everyone who told me I would fail. In reality, yup just the birds.
Personally, I always said people to F off when they deserved it, even when I didn’t had the F you money … Maybe that’s not the most strategic way to behave. But, it’s the way I am. I don’t like to do business with people who don’t deserve it.
Now that I am closer to F you money, I can feel what you say. I tend to be more apathetic towards those people. I am just myself. If they don’t like it, that’s their problem, not mine.
I also realize more how lucky I am. Although I don’t feel guilty for what I have accomplished, I try to be more considerate with others. Also, I’m trying to turn more into understanding people rather than just reacting to bad behaviors.
One thing that surprise me the most in society today, is how rushed and stressed people are in general. Whether they have to accumulate enough money to pay their next rent, or they have personal mortgages so large that they can’t wait before they earn more money, I don’t know.
But then, I remember that no matter how stressed they are, I will receive my next dividend payments no matter what I do. So I try to relax and be as kind as possible.
After all, maybe that’s the most bad ass you can be when you have the F you money …
Good on you for telling things how it is. Just not the best strategy for getting ahead.
Playing office politics is an important skill for max salary and promotions. Some truly are masters at the game, which is commendable.
I just had enough after 13 years. I didn’t want the money or the title enough so I left. Everything is rational!
It’s probably more bad than good. But I was never interested in politics. When I figured that it’s how most large corporations work, and they don’t really care about real individual performance, I gave up and looked to succeed in other ways.
At first, I though I was broken. But my view changed when I read the books of Steve Jobs and Ray Dalio.
Steve Jobs explain very well how these type of bureaucratic behaviours leads very large and well-funded corporations like Xerox or IBM to spend a fortune on research and development or M&A, but yet miss on simple but fundamental changes in technologies.
Ray Dalio explains that it’s pointless to complain on something if you don’t add any value at the same time, but that not raising concerns on something that can be harmful to an organisation could be as equally as bad for this organisation. It’s also the responsibility of an organisation to listen to its employees when they raises valid concerns. Otherwise, the individuals inside the orgainisation can’t do anything about it.
Finally, I agree also with Carl Icahn when he says bad management in America is more the norm than the exception. This can be hurtful to investors. But it can give rise to the best opportunities when this bad management can be removed.
I have witnessed it myself and now I try to profit from that.
I was hoping you’d say that F U money is a year’s worth of savings, enough to cover expenses for that one year. To me, having $300,000, $500,000, or $3 million is more like financial freedom, meaning at that point I can pretty much walk away and not worry about money. Hopefully at that point, I’ve had created revenue streams.
That being said, I have a year’s worth of F U money that I never used even though I had a micromanager who drove me nuts. On my weekly status reports, she wanted to know how much time I spent on each task. She only got the job because she knew the hiring VP. Definitely not qualified to do the job or manage. I was also getting sabatoged by her. I wanted to take a leadership class. HR had already agreed to reimburse me the cost of the class. My PITA manager found a tiny little clause in the company policy and kept asking questions to the point that HR had to deny me my reimbursement.
When I found a new job, I so wanted to tell her to go F off. But I didn’t.
By the way, it is possible to build up $500+ K worth of net worth but still be clueless on how to implement strategies to create revenue streams outside of stock portfolios. (Don’t ask me how I know.)
Ah, your old job didn’t sound very fun. Glad you got out!
One year’s worth of expenses is great. But it is not enough to be considered F U money. Still have to depend on a gatekeeper for survival. Still have to play nice with people you don’t admire.
$500K is great! Should generate $15-$25K passively a year if fully invested.
As a business owner I am happy to pay for leadership classes but always surprised that people don’t just sign up even without reimbursement.
: Take these four hours of training to position yourself for the next tier of jobs earning 20-100% more money? Oh – I can’t spend the $200 or take the time to read the books or watch the fee videos. Crazy.
Sam – as always, thanks for the great articles!
I really like your take, Steve A. As a small business owner, I branched out into real estate about ten years ago. Prior to buying my first of 3 rental homes, I devoured every book, or information source I could lay my hands on. I put in a little effort, and today, I have my business (insurance) but I also have an extra 1.2 million equity in 3 passive income producing single family homes. Long after my insurance business is gone, my family will have the real estate from a little extra effort given to create a small legacy.
Fantastic article, Sam. Well done again.
Regarding the risk-free rate of return of about 2.5% today, what treasury-related mutual funds, etc. would you recommend to achieve this rate since CDs are nowhere near that rate? Warm wishes….
Thanks. You can simply buy the 10-year treasury bond yielding 2.5% and hold to maturity risk free. But there’s a good chance the 10-year bond yield will rise to 3-3.5% over the next 12 months so I wouldn’t be too motivated yet.
I used the 10-year yield more as a barometer, the risk free opportunity cost, for all investment returns combined.
Understood – thank you.
If inflation is realistically at 10%, how is a negative 7.5% return risk free?
Sure. Tell me how much risk you took to earn 2.5% risk free and is the risk free alternative? How much is your portfolio up this year and what are you investing in?
So far, real estate continues to do well in 2022.
Fundrise, xle, xlu, Iau, Ibonds, some Fidelity funds. I would guess it is up slightly for the year but I don’t check that frequently. My point is, there is no “risk free” investment that gets you a positive real rate of return. The closest I can think of is an Ibond where one can nearly break even when taking inflation into account.
In your example of holding a 10 year treasury bond at 2.5% to maturity and calling it risk free, you are ignoring the risk of a debased currency 10 years down the road.
Sam, statistically speaking, the richer you are the less percentage of your wealth you actually donate to charity, a few well known anomalies aside. Further, research upon research has shown that the richer you get, the less likely you are to empathize, the less likely you are to feel that the rules apply to you and so on. In fact, as a long time reader, I remember when you used to have a Honda Fit and you were complaining about how a lady in a Porsche thought that she owned the road just because she had a bigger car. Enjoy your content as always, but hoping to share some tidbits as well. Keep up the good work. When are you going to have Tik Tok account? I feel like you could do really well there.
If you remember that post, then you are indeed a long time reader!
There is a chance the aggressive Porsche driver might not actually be rich, but stressed out trying to get to a job to pay for her Porsche. She’s always speeding in our residential neighborhood.
Curious, what do you think the benefit is of being on Tik Tok? I’ve got about a 20 hour limit per week online. Anymore starts to feel too much like work.
Are you finding yourself having more free time nowadays?
When I was younger I’d have definitely told people to F off after achieving my goal, now that I’m close to getting my F…U money, I don’t care what others think of me.
I have a different perspective on definition of FU
Money. More that it is adequate to cover the transition to a new job or career not that it is essentially FI money like you frame in this post. So 6 months of expenses may be considered FU money. Just a different perspective on definition.
I 100% agree with this! When I got to 12 months expenses I developed an FU approach to work (Note: I’m in IT, so my skillset has been highly mobile for 30 years as well). Able to give my opinion, able to ignore the politics, able to work on the tasks I believe best benefit my employer (in terms of why they hired me to begin with).
Been like this for close to 15 years now and it was the best shift in my career as it enabled me to continue working frankly. I’m able to go lean FIRE, but with this attitude I’m able to keep moving forward toward fat FIRE.
Congrats on getting to lean FIRE! Now most of your gains will start feeling like gravy.
Let’s just hope our investments stay steady.
I disagree that having 6 months of living expenses is F You Money. That is more bare bones minimum money to survive and feel Ok day to day.
But all is good regardless of what you feel. As long as you feel 6 months is all you need to do what you want, that’s all that matters.
I think that the financial freedom that comes with having FU money would enable me to just avoid the people who are selfish, abrasive and narcissistic. It would also enable me to be more generous to the less fortunate.
Have been waiting a long time for an article on FU money Sam. I discuss that concept with others many times (last night a gentlemen told me 400k, my definition is 5 million) but this article framed 90% of my feelings. I too have taken on many tasks but closer to getting that FU money you realize that your success is not predicate one way or the other on successful results thus “trying too hard”. The stock market however is “two steps backward for every 1.5 forward” as of late.
One issue I’ve found is that the job ladder in my field has an earnings structure that grows geometrically. For a while it’s 20-30% each level you’re promoted. Then high six figures, then low seven… and then you get into the C suite and an eight figures range. (That latter group spends money in ways that blow my mind.) As you progress up the ladder, your perception of costs changes significantly, and with it an FU number. We’ve avoided getting addicted to the really expensive things I see my leadership team doing, but I still get anxiety wondering how we would live off what I once thought would be a comfortable level of passive income.
Another factor is the crazy expensive real estate market we live in. For years I plowed everything I could towards a goal of a nice SFH. It created wealth on paper, but to live off that we would have to cash out and move somewhere we don’t want to live.
What are some crazy or anxiety-inducing things these wealthy people are doing?
The only thing that I know Is that the ultra rich fly private and have incredible vacation homes. But if you know them, you can hop along and enjoy your vacation homes as well on occasion.
You are spot on in comments about inherited wealth. I have F* You $$ between 6-7M.
I have mixed feelings of gratitude, relief, joy, and guilt. In an unusual circumstance, I didn’t have expectations of this windfall so therefore no entitlement either. Have had it for a few years now and still not fully acclimated. Trying to share as much as possible, make the $ work for me, and strike a balance between embracing the opportunities as well as being a responsible steward.
Is the guilt coming from you inheriting a lot of the $6-7M? It’s not clear. If so, how much of the $6-7 million was inherited?
Easiest way to feel less guilty about inherited wealth is to give a lot of it away! It always feels good to help others in need.
it all comes down to your position as well.
if you become a multibillionaire CEO of a multitrillionaire corporation, you can’t just tell people to fuck off regardless of how much you long to do it!
at that point in life, you will become even more vulnerable! you have to constantly worry about your ratings, approval rates, the Board’s opinion, public opinion, PR, even the news and media!
one wrong word is enough to pull you all the way down to the bottom rock!
I’ve much enjoyed your articles and agree with a lot of your reasoning and investing strategies.
I’m 65 and retired with a NW of about $3.3M. After taking a bath in 2000 I pivoted to primarily going with rentals outside of California where I live. The Paradise Camp Fire took my home but spared the industrial building I own where I ran my business. Wasn’t originally from the area so didn’t rebuild and invested $650K in five Private Funds that I’m pleased with, and another $200K in five Angel “opportunities” that I wished I hadn’t, especially now that I’ve read your enlightening article. I got back into the stock market at the bottom of March 2020, but have sold most off now as I’d rather preserve my NW, even if a chunk is in cash.
My dilemma is wanting to stay in California but no longer have the cash or income to purchase a home near the coast where I’d prefer to live. Right now my investments bring in about $90K plus another $22K in SS.
Since the fire I’ve been living in a trailer at my industrial building, and I did purchase a mobile home in an older community in Sonoma to help my parents as needed. I’ll soon vacate my industrial building which I can then rent or sell for about $450K. My claim with PGE may be worth upwards of $800K, but it’s been 3 years and nothing yet.
I never married, have no kids or debt, so I’m pretty satisfied with my NW. More is always nice, but I’m primarily concerned with preserving my wealth now and am fine with returns in the mid single digits. Come on PGE!!!
$5M NW still seems like the right number for us, but we do spend ~$150k/year so our expenses are above average for sure.
I think the other way to look at it is forever home with no mortgage, kids’ 529 accounts funded in full, plus ~$3M in an index fund portfolio. That’s ~$10k/month budget with no mortgage payment. Cost of living doesn’t vary too much from place to place once housing costs are out of the picture.
Born in the 80’s. We lived off my moms salary and invested dads. When my parents passed away my sister and I split 12 million and chose to keep our parents house for the sauna gym pool and 4+ acres of land the house sits on. Privately educated from one of America’s best Universities. I work in finance but get treated like dirt. Like sub human garbage. With that yeah, I might flaunt my fortune if anyone threatens me on my way out the door. I’m not them. I’m not part of that rabble.
Not bad being privately educated at a great college and growing up rich.
We’ve all got to pay our dues starting off. And if you don’t like they way you are treated, speak up or try and find a new job ASAP.
Related: Confessions Of A Spoiled Rich Kid
Man makes the money, money does not make the man. Be honest it’s all about where you are raised. Whether you got tied down to your home state like myself got caught up in a business helping people instead of worrying about yourself. I make good money but help to many people in my business for some reason just my nature. Get kicked down over and over which just fuels my flame which every human needs to learn that and many do not.
When the going gets tough the tough get going!
I hope to make enough money in my next ten years at 37 I think I can do it. As everyone tells me “ oh your still a baby!!…..” soooo on that not keep on trucking humans those of you young with money awesome cherish make the right decisions because if you lose it your going to feel like an actor once there washed up and I know that’s mentally a major difficulty.
But when you have nothing and you make something then have nothing then make more your training yourself to be the best human to tolerate life mentally and that’s something money will never buy! Peace to all, not sure how I got here lol I was reading about koenigsegg regera and I’m here lol.
Good blog bro and the F U money stuff you don’t tell any human to fuck off that shows you respect and is just a great human. Having that mind set is just disrespectful, and makes you a bad human.
We are all human and it just takes one guy to blow his cool, right mind set, a gun or whatever his weapon of choice maybe and it’s all over money is nothing, skills are everything and if anything catastrophic ever occurred on our planet skills will be what brings us back not money. Any who how much do you produce from blogging? How many figures?
I make enough from this blog not to feel guilty ordering fries with my $1 cheeseburger at McDonald’s. The freedom feels so good!
Good luck over the next 10 years.
I often think of the phrase “speak softly and carry a big stick.” FU money is your big stick. With it in hand, you can afford to talk softly, confident that at any point you can indeed tell anyone to F off, even if you don’t actually do it.
It also reminds me of martial arts. Most get into it to learn to defend themselves in a dangerous scenario, to be ready to fight. But after spending time in the martial arts and learning the skills, most would rather not use them and the increase in confidence means they are much less likely to be a target anyway.
Hmm, if FU Money was a martial art, would it be FU-fu?
LOL very clever !
Hi, thanks for sharing this great article! The only problem I have is with the calculation: $10million can generate $200k-300k annually… That’s about 2-3% annually?? That’s in my eyes ridiculously low! Then you must invest in one of the most terrible mutual funds out there.. With $10million I generate annually about $1m to $5m annually.. I buy and hold the ETF TQQQ forever, providing 55% in the last 12 years, with my strategy I follow TQQQ with a trailing stop loss at 10% (25% of cap), 15% (25% of cap), and 20% (50% of cap). After a bear market, I buy from the bottom up with pyramiding, even doubling my cap fast..
The risk-free rate of return is about 2.5% today. Once you have $10 million, you will want to protect your $10 million and not invest as aggressively.
Most people I know are $10 million spread out their investments and try to shoot for middle single-digit returns. Once you have a lot of wealth, the last thing you want to do is lose it.
Too many people I know have only invested through a bull market. But bear markers do happen from time to time. If you lose 30% of your $10 million, you’ll be kicking yourself, as many did in 2000 and 2008.
bull markets last longer than bear markets. they also return far more than bear markets lose. these are facts. so if you make 100% over the length of a bull market and then lose 30% in a bear market, who cares because youre still up 70%. oh no, i had $10mm, lost 30% and now im down to my last $7mm, how will i ever survive. and the market. always. comes. back. people with $300k cant afford to lose 30% but people with $10mm definitely can. with more money you can afford to take more risk. if elon musk lost 30%, he’s down to his last $77billion. noones kicking themself at that point.
It looks good on paper, absolutely.
In reality, imagine living through your LIFE SAVINGS going from $2M to <$500k in a few weeks, as is what would have happened to you just last year.
It’s one thing to say you’ll never sell so it’s fine, it’s another thing to emotionally live through it – especially when you do have a substantial amount of money invested – decades of your hard earned savings. Day after day the news gets worse and you don’t know where the bottom will be or how long you’ll be there. You know if the market doesn’t recover, returning to the labor market will mean you’re now qualified for McDonalds or the Walmart greeter…
Even with the knowledge it’ll be OK in the end and ice water in your veins, it’s very, very hard to just sit there and not sell.
If not mistaken TQQQ is 50% off their highs and pays no dividend so where are the returns emanating from?